PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

Discussion in '2000's Missing' started by J. J. in Phila, Apr 18, 2015.

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  1. Sutton

    Sutton New Member

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    RSBM. How long does the President Judge have to approve? Is that just a formality or might he or she reject the petition?

    If approved, would it be announced what cases are being considered? Any timeline guesses here? Oct. 2017? (Approved by President Judge by Sept., GJ starts Oct., add 24 months at most) Or is that unrealistic?
     


  2. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    You must live in New Jersey because you ask a lot of questions. :) Old Roseanne Roseannadanna joke.

    First, the was a scanned clipping posted regarding Roy's suicide, but no link. It looks impossible for someone to have found it via an Internet search, and the description wasn't enough to determine which bridge it was.

    Second, unless there was an actual link to Luna, that is nowhere close to Centre County so it is out of the jurisdiction of the grand jury.

    Third, I think in some cases posters, especially the earlier ones could be subpoenaed; keep in mind that some were actually former staffers and relatives. They can also do things like subpoena financial records and family e-mail. I think the family attorney may be subpoenaed, and family and coworkers probably would be. Witnesses would be as well.

    Even if the grand jury did not recommend indictment, it can report. That report can be released, as was seen in the recent case.

    Fourth, the first five pages of the Spanier Grand Jury (11/01/12) presentment deal with the 1998 incident, including the investigation, even though none of the people indicted (the PSU 3) in it were indicted for anything in 1998 (Sandusky was previously). I expect more to come out on that in the PSU 3 trial.

    Fifth, yes, and the reporter was surprised that he had it in hands in less than 15 minutes. That day, I was engaged in a conversation that involved the text of a relatively obscure book published in 1921, on a subject that was arcane, even for me. As I did not, and do not have a mobile device, it would be impossible for me to be in Lewisburg that day. At the time, my health would have made such a trip impossible, at least getting there and back again in one day.

    Sixth, the BDP did check me out, and from what I'm told, the verdict was "pristine." I was also checked out by the reporter and the editor prior to starting the blog. I would not object to being called, if called.
     
  3. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    As noted in the article, President Judge Kistler has 10 days to approve or reject the petition. I do not believe it is automatic, though his decision to reject might be appealable.

    So, as of this morning, we may or may not have a grand jury which may or may not be investigating the Gricar disappearance. That is a slight improvement. :)
     
  4. howardstern

    howardstern New Member

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    Why would Gricar have any connection to the Luna case?
     
  5. Sutton

    Sutton New Member

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    I answered within the quote, in bold.
     
    J. J. in Phila likes this.
  6. Sutton

    Sutton New Member

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    I don't know enough about the similarities to make an argument for a possible connection or a likely disconnection.

    Some posters felt very strongly there may be a connection, and probably had good reasons. I remember thinking it a bit of a stretch. A well known journalist wrote at least two articles his website (I think he's since changed his mind.) But I try to keep an open mind until I have all the facts. I don't want to dismiss anyone's ideas, as I am yet to hear a theory that resolves every answer. :)
     
  7. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    The family, PEF have never publicly pushed for a grand jury. They did support the McKnight/Buehner calls to turn the case over to the OAG.

    And the "journalist" (though I would not use that term for him), did change his mind. I do not agree with either position he has taken.
     
  8. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    AG Kane was just indicted, BTW.
     
  9. howardstern

    howardstern New Member

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    Thanks for the response.

    I do agree that it's impossible to rule out anything at this point. But the Luna-Gricar connection is even more of a stretch than the proposal that Sandusky may have played a role in Ray's disappearance. I think most would agree the later isn't really a viable theory in itself, though there is a DIRECT connection between Gricar and Sandusky. I haven't seen ANY compelling evidence to prove a link between Gricar and Luna; the only thing really being in common is the fact that they were both prosecutors. The differences in the cases war outweigh any similarities they may bare.

    And while the Luna case is definitely lacking evidence (physical or otherwise), it pales in comparison to the minute amount of information we have on the Gricar case. Any theory we have in respect to each case, is going to be based on a fair bit of assumptions. Fair enough, that's what happens with a lack of evidence. But connecting the two cases takes a lot more assumptions, a bridge that I don't think is necessary to cross with so little to support it.

    Cheers!
     
  10. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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  11. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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  12. TechWriter797

    TechWriter797 Registered Voter

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    That podcast was truly awful. It lived down to its name.
     
  13. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    Well, as I said, below our level. I found it interesting to see how others were reacting to the surface information in the case.
     
  14. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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  15. doktor57

    doktor57 Verified Retired Air Traffic Controller

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    Does anyone know what the 'spun kneecaps' refers to? It sounds horrible.


    Dave
    San Diego, CA
    Home of the World's Busiest Radar Approach Control
     
  16. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    I thing it refers to prying out the kneecaps, or smashing them.
     
  17. doktor57

    doktor57 Verified Retired Air Traffic Controller

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    Thanks for the reply, J.J. Do you believe the Hell's Angels confession is valid?

    Dave
    San Diego, CA
    Home of the World's Busiest Radar Approach Control
     
  18. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    No. It has too many problems, even discounting what Buehner reported.
     
  19. Trackergd

    Trackergd Verified SAR Manager and Tracker - Retired

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    Not the least being a huge discrepancy in location as reported. The area noted does not have mine or vent shafts. A bore hole rig operation (needed to create a shaft) would stand out like a sore thumb.
     
  20. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    Even factoring out the second report, the story still had numerous holes in it. RFG was the actual prosecutor, it would have been difficult to stage the disappearance, and it would have been unlikely for an admitted FBI informant to get his "old boys" to ride out to get RFG.
     
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