PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

Discussion in '2000's Missing' started by J. J. in Phila, Oct 1, 2018.

  1. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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  2. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana May I be the person my dogs think I am! :)

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    Thanks, J.J. ;).
    The last time I did this, I left off something from past threads.
     
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  3. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana May I be the person my dogs think I am! :)

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    Last thread ( the megathread) received 132,000+ views.
    What the numbers say to me is that this case is not dead. There is ongoing interest and discussion, just no new case info for us.

    For those who may be new to the case, or would like a fairly quick refresher, here is a basic outline of the case FACTS:

    Mr. Ray Frank Gricar, DOB 10/9/ 1945, was first elected District Attorney in 1985, and had been re-elected four times since then. Prior to becoming District Attorney, he had served as an assistant district attorney for about five years, in Centre County, and about ten years in his home state of Ohio. He was a graduate of Case Western Law School and licensed as a J.D. in Ohio, then transferred to PA with his first wife, Barbara Gray, a professor at Pennsylvania State University ( PSU).

    In January 2004, he announced he would not seek re-election and retire from the practice of law at the end of his term, which would be upcoming in December of 2005. He planned to retire as a District Attorney at the age of 60 years, with 30 plus total years of service in the D.A.'s offices

    On 4/15/05, he decided to the day off work, and it should be noted that this was not extremely unusual for him at this time with a mature A.D.A. staff in place as he neared his 30 year mark and his upcoming retirement.

    He called his girlfriend, who was also a Centre County courthouse employee, Patty Fornicola, at about 11:15-30 AM from the Centre Hall area as per his cell phone pings to the tower in the area. From her statements, we are told that he said that he was on Route 192, heading toward Lewisburg, and that he wouldn’t be able to walk the dog that afternoon. The dog was Patty's and was elderly with special care needs. That was the last reported contact with anyone who knew him.

    Possible sightings on April 15, 2005: A Courthouse worker who was in in Centre Hall said they saw Mr. Gricar turn on Route 192, heading in the direction of Lewisburg.
    Sometime between Noon and 2:00 PM, at least three witnesses, including Jennifer Snyder, an employee at the Packwood House Museum, saw Mr. Gricar parked along Water Street, just off of Market Street (Route 45), in Lewisburg. He was the car he was driving, a red 2004 Mini Cooper, between the three spaces across from the museum.
    At 3:00 PM, back in Bellefonte, Carolyn Fenton, a law clerk to Judge David Grine, saw Mr. Gricar in a different car, behind the Courthouse. No one corroborated this sighting. Judge Grine could not remember if it was 4/14 or 4/15.
    Sometime between 4:00 PM and 5:00 PM, a man driving to Harrisburg from Lock Haven, pulled parallel to a red Mini Cooper near the Country Cupboard on Route 15, just north of Lewisburg. He remembered what the driver looked like. When he saw the story in the newspaper, he recognized Mr. Gricar’s photo.

    At about 5:00 PM on April 15, 2005, several adults with no relationship to each other or Mr. Gricar in Lewisburg, PA, reported seeing the Mini Cooper arrive at the parking lot across from the Street of Shop. At least two saw Mr. Gricar carefully choosing a parking space for his brand new shiny Mini Cooper with the personalized license plated " PFo" for his girlfriend's name, Patty Fornicola, as the car was legally hers. There are many photos of the car online. It was bright red, with white wheels and a white top. Standard Mini Cooper, not a convertible or a Clubsman.

    Sometime after that, two business owners in the Street of Shops ( common abbrev. SOS) , Brad Alvey and an unidentified vendor, saw Mr. Gricar in the Street of Shops. One saw him with a woman; it looked like they were together to the vendor. The woman was described by LE years later as being tall, slender, neat, in her 40's perhaps, with dark hair. Their demeanor has been described by witnesses as " casually strolling" through the Street of Shops building or buildings. There was no sense of alarm or of urgency noted by witnesses, and some are not at all sure the two were actually together but may have crossed paths in the mall type layout of shops a few times.

    Around 11:00 PM that evening, an apparently concerned and worried Patty Fornicola called the police after she'd spent 2 hours at the YMCA, exercising, she said. Within an hour, there was a BOLO code ( which is short for Be On the Look Out) issued on Mr. Gricar. They were looking for the missing District Attorney early and in what is believed to be a wide area, because Patty was able to tell them where Ray said he was calling from in his drive to Lewisburg.

    April 16th AM- By the next morning, the Bellefonte Police began calling his friends and co-workers. They also checked his cell phone records and determined that the call was carried by the tower in the Brush Valley area.

    On 4/16/05, between 11:30 AM and Noon, two workers in the Street of Shops have reported seeing Ray Gricar there. No mention of the mystery woman with him on the 16th as far as I know.

    Around 12:00 PM, the Street of Shops ( or SOS) owner, Craig Bennett, saw him standing on the premises and recognized him. Anecdotally, as to why Mr. Gricar would have an interest in the Street Of Shops building, it is noted that Mr. Gricar is said to have had a hobby of shopping in the antique vendors' booths for antique toys. We do not know the size of the toys he bought and collected nor the genre nor the type: e.g., trains, puzzles, stuffed animals, vintage car model kits, or other. Patty Fornicola has said he collected antique toys as well.

    ONE photo I posted at the end of Part 15 this discussion thread is of Patty F.'s house as it appeared when for sale in 2015 ( definitely not professionally staged and decorated but with her furnishings in place) shows what appear to be smallish non- china or glass figurines on top of the china cabinet. Patty was short, Ray was not. I believe these are carved small wooden toys, as there does appear to be painted color on some of them. This leads credence to the presence of small wooden toys in their shared home.
    This is all the information that has been released regarding witnesses to Ray Gricar's activities for both days, April 15th and April 16th, 2005.

    The searches began on April 16, 2005:
    The police began to search for the missing District Attorney in sections of the Brush Valley area, along Route 192, in the afternoon of April 16, 2oo5. This included an aerial search.
    At about 6:30 PM, April 16th, the Mini Cooper was discovered by a State Police officer in the parking lot at the Street of Shops, parked on the first row, far end. Mr. Gricar’s cell phone and a water bottle containing no foreign DNA, just his, was inside. There was a trace of cigarette ash found by investigators on the passenger side floor, and when the locked doors were first opened, there was the scent of cigarette smoke. Mr. Gricar, as a non smoker, did not like smoking in his car.
    The car was taken to the State Police Barracks in Milton for evidence processing. The PSP has revealed that the car was negative for foreign DNA or foreign non-smudged fingerprints. Ray's fingerprints and DNA were found, and there were smudged fingerprints and a smudged palm print found when the car was processed forensically and released very soon afterwards to Ms. Fornicola.

    On 4/17/05, the Susquehanna River was searched from the air. A bloodhound was brought in, in the late morning. The dog detected Mr. Gricar’s scent in the parking lot, but not beyond. It stopped and circled; the handler thought it was indicative of Mr. Gricar getting into another car.

    On 4/18/05, there was the famous, or perhaps infamous, news conference with Ms. Fornicola and Mr. Gricar’s daughter, Lara. Photos from the shared press conference show the 2 older women in conversation. They could be sisters, they looked so much alike at that time.
    Shortly afterwards, there was a witness sighting in Wilkes-Barre, PA, which was ruled out as being Mr. Gricar.
    There was also a witness sighting in May 2005, in Southfield, MI. There were several others, but they have been discounted. The Southfield, MI, sighting was never ruled on at all, and there is possibly a mystery connection to the area for Mr. Gricar. ( the mystery is not case fact but years of speculation).

    In late July of 2005, Mr. Gricar’s laptop, minus the hard drive, was found in the water on the northern side of the bridge in Lewisburg; the side without a walking area and, if dropped from a car, the car would be heading toward Lewisburg (and also towards Bellefonte).

    Also in July, 2005, Ms. Fornicola was polygraphed; in September that year, Lara Gricar was polygraphed. News releases say they were asked if they knew the whereabouts of Ray Gricar. Both passed. ( This means: Neither knew the whereabouts of Ray Gricar at that time). We do not know if they were asked any other question or if any polygraph has been administered to any other relative or close friend at that time or at any time since.

    In September 2005, the drive that fit the computer was found on the shoreline of the Susquehanna across the park from the Packwood House. No data could be recovered from it due to corrosion from the water and erosion from soil particles and debris getting into the drive casing.

    In April of 2009 the police released information that Gricar had been doing searches on his home computer for "how to destroy a hard drive" "and similar terms in the months prior to his disappearance.

    In May of 2011, Lara Gricar petitioned to her father declared dead; the petition was granted in July of 2011.

    End of timeline of known events.

    Additional footnotes: Note the absence of a memorial service or any permanent marker for legally dead Mr. Gricar. There is no memorial of any type, not a community service with a cemetery marker, nor even a very appropriate bronze plaque remembering his service in the Bellefonte city park where he and Patty used to eat lunch on sunny days.

    There have never been any reports of any bank account activity by Mr. Gricar or reports of his social security number being used post 4/15/2005. Sightings from around the US have been ruled out, including one in Texas at a dubious quality chain restaurant, and one John Doe in prison in a western state was presented by concerned citizens for comparison to Ray Gricar ( I am not aware of the specifics) . The man was not Ray Gricar.

    As far as we know today, 13 years and 6 months past, he disappeared from Lewisburg either on April 15, 2005, or by mid-day April 16th, 2005. The last confirmed voice contact by his girlfriend at the time was his call in to the court house on April 15, 2005, at around 11: 30 AM.
    There is NO video footage known to exist of him on April 15th, 2o05, or beyond
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
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  4. Trackergd

    Trackergd SAR Search Manager and Footprint Tracker

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    Has anyone submitted this case for the "Cold Justice" TV Show to look at? You can submit it on line. I submitted the Lauren Jackson case.
     
  5. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana May I be the person my dogs think I am! :)

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    I don't know anything about the show, Tracker. Would you like to submit it since you know the process well? It would be a tremendous service to Mr. Gricar and his daughter and grandchild.

    Thanks so much for bringing this up. You are aces, my friend!
     
  6. Trackergd

    Trackergd SAR Search Manager and Footprint Tracker

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    Will do! Perhaps they have resources in depth they can bring to bear (that we only wish we had).
     
  7. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana May I be the person my dogs think I am! :)

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    Thank you so much! I know many people who are not conversing right now also appreciate this generous act.
    I don't know about the show, but if it's to help the missing, I think I need to find out. :)
     
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  8. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    This was discussed, in depth, on Thread #14, but I am adding attachments.

    1. RFG's "Statement of Financial Interest" for the year 2004. Public officials were (and are) required to file the form each year to show their sources of income. The report is filed to cover the previous year. RFG filed this in March of 2005 to cover the calendar year 2004. Note that he filed it personally.

    2. RFG's "Statement of Financial Interest" for the year 2005. Same as above, but filed by LAG in March of 2006.

    3. RFG's declaration of death and associated estate estate information, which is also available here: Gricar_estate.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

  9. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    Note that detailed time lines are on the first several pages of Thread #15.

    Unless there is a desire for re-posting, I will not repeat them.
     
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  10. ilovewings

    ilovewings Well-Known Member

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    wow, what an amazing job you did of recapping the facts of this case. i haven't followed the case that closely (reminds me of the case of Jonathan Luna), but I
    learned a lot from your comprehensive write up. thank you.
     
  11. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana May I be the person my dogs think I am! :)

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    Did I do OK with the one post summarization? I posted the known timeline just above. I've read yours so many times, it's burned into my memory but I could have left out something since you refer people to the old pages and not my post. :)
     
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  12. GarAndTeed

    GarAndTeed Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone tell me if RFG prosecuted any football players? Did he know Paterno or any of Paterno's cronies? (I'm not that focused on Sandusky, FWIW). I ask because I live in a Big 10 town, and I had a close relative who was very invested in football; I don't remember as many specific details as I'd like, but it was crazy...TONS of politics, coaches getting fired because they didn't have the right connections; nasty, ugly rumors, and big wigs taking sides, making payoffs, etc. I'm just wondering if RFG really ticked someone in the football community off, either by a prosecution, or by not "playing the game" (as in worshiping Paterno, etc.)- or inadvertently. Thanks for any info!
     
  13. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    Yes. One unsuccessful prosecution was of Anwar Phillips, about 18 months prior to his disappearance. There were some others, but his predecessor tend to prosecute more.

    RFG, speaking to a fellow DA, never complained about PSU. He did complain about the "crazy football fans" calling him any time a football player was in some scrape with the law.
     
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  14. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana May I be the person my dogs think I am! :)

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    @GarAndTeed My perception of it all is this: When Sandusky's rampant child porn making, pedophilia and child molestation hit the headlines, for a brief tarnished second in time of which I am deeply ashamed, I and most others did tend to maybe mash it all up together.." Maybe Gricar was involved and disappeared because of it", etc.

    Then, J.J. and I and other posters ( whom I miss a lot) started talking about Gricar's early investigation of one of the boy's mother's allegations of abuse at the hands of Sandusky and how Gricar declined to prosecute based on lack of evidence of criminal behavior on Sandusky's part.

    J.J. has always said " He could have gotten a charge of indecent exposure" and I agree, but when you have something going on for so long and you KNOW that one day, it's going to break apart in a million sordid pieces and take the perp. down very long and hard, you don't tend to tip your hand over a small thing that would have been maybe a fine and 30 days or a plea bargain. IDK. Once Sandusky realized people were aware of what he was doing, though, there was every chance that he would go deep underground instead of staying visible with The Second Mile. In staying visible, he was his own worst enemy because he had one more weird ego, and also became the object of a very successful investigation which crossed state lines and involved so many victims that he could not begin to imagine what hell had been unleashed on him until the prison doors slammed shut. Thank God he was caught and stopped.
    What Paterno knew, didn't know, maybe colluded with, maybe was paid off, we'll likely never know ALL of the truth because he up and died on us right when the heat was highest in the cases.

    The case Ray Gricar was presented with in the 90's would never have stopped Sandusky, it would have served only to alert him that LE was watching, and could have messed up the later undercover stings immensely. Gricar took a chance which wasn't popular later on when the scandal did break, but it paid off immensely. He had excellent instincts!

    From what I could see, the BPD investigated the claims thoroughly and Gricar determined there was not enough evidence at that time to bring criminal charges against Sandusky for showering with the boy. The boy answered in the negative when questioned about every type of sex act.

    It was so freeing for me personally when Ray Gricar's good name and legacy as a good D.A. got out from under the cloud of Sandusky.
    I honestly do not think he ever protected Sandusky and that if the boy's testimony in the case Gricar had looked into had included anything akin to child sexual abuse, Sandusky would have faced charges in Centre County.

    As J.J. pointed out, there could have been a charge of " Indecency with a minor' because both were, well, showering, and we don't shower in our clothing. Sandusky was warned to stop what he was doing and to go to a treatment center by the Centre County officials who knew about the charge. He indicated to them that it would never happen again and he cried when he apologized to the boy's mother.

    Sandusky didn't straighten up because he was an arrogant, criminal, sadistic pervert, as we know now. I've always thought that if the man hadn't had so many true enablers he might have been forced to stop, but he employed ( and was also married to) perfect " handlers" and enablers.
    I sincerely do not think Ray Gricar was one, though.

    As J.J. said, I also don't think the judiciary was prejudicial regarding any state sports player's criminal acts. The empaneled juries might have been, but not the D.A.'s office.

    None of us are perfect, but I have looked into many Centre County cases which I consider to be hard to prosecute and win justice for the victims, and Ray Gricar was known for advocating for women's rights in sexual assault criminal cases. I think he was a very good man who did a very good job in office most of the time. :)

    He had a lot of conflict with the local LE because he did not think they were smart or efficient, and that's one reason I think he simply walked away. He wanted to show the local PD that he could outfox the foxes they thought they were. IF he'd had a better investigative body than what he had in Centre County, might he have prosecuted some truly landmark cases? I think he undoubtedly had the ability to have been a D.A. in Los Angeles county or anywhere in the country or world which has a judiciary system. He chose to stay in Centre County for his own reasons. Maybe he felt they really needed him because the LE was ineffectual. We can see this same thing when we look at the dynamics of the JonBenet Ramsey case in Boulder, CO.
     
  15. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    Respectfully, as always, snipped:

    The lack of evidence reason is quite bogus. There were two victims, Victim 6 and B.K., who both reported the same thing. Neither RFG, nor anyone from the DA's Office, ever interviewed Victim 6. That, along with some other things, do show, strongly, that RFG did not want to prosecute Sandusky. One of his ADA's, who was somewhat involved with the case, said that RFG prosecute if Sandusky "received help with the problem."

    While we should be very critical of RFG's decision, it was neither illegal nor unethical; DA's, for whatever reason, may decline to charge. We have seen this with other prosecutors in some other counties, regarding the Catholic Church. (I actually know, slightly, two the former prosecutors in Cambria County who did this.) PSU was a very big institution in Centre County, where, at the time, 40%-60% of the electorate either was attending, attended, worked for, or was retired from.

    The crimes that Sandusky was convicted of in regard to Victim 6 was "Unlawful Contract," which is a felony, child endangerment, and corruption of minors, both misdemeanors. Keep in mind that, in 1998, RFG had two victims, and that the AG, in 2012, had only one victim available. The "Unlawful Contact" conviction would have been sufficient to put Sandusky on "Meagan's List."

    Even if there had been a plea bargain, it would have been very unlikely that Sandusky could have remained involved with his charity, The Second Mile (TSM)

    The charge is "Unlawful Contact." It can be something involving sexual arousal, but it also can include "open lewdness," which is not necessarily sexual in nature. "Open Lewdness" is some act "likely to be observed by others who would be affronted or alarmed." There have been convictions on that for skinny dipping. I can easily make the argument that an older naked unrelated man, bear-hugging a young boy from behind, while lifting him up, would caused someone to be "affronted or alarmed."

    I have no opinion on how the judiciary treats PSU.

    In regard to the Phillips case, I thought that RFG's argument was very weak. A sports commentator who was very hostile to Phillips and PSU at the start of the trial, switched after sitting through the trial, and felt that Phillips was innocent. Finally, a jury of 11 women and 1 man, took only three hours to find Phillips not guilty. I think that this does show that RFG would prosecute football players.
     
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  16. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana May I be the person my dogs think I am! :)

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    Could you please clarify what the sentence bolded by me is supposed to say?

    Also, why would you think a D.A. office would need to investigate case material submitted by LE if the investigation part was closed by LE ( meaning they were submitting their findings to the D.A.'s office and no other findings were likely to be discovered in the investigation state of the case or cases? The investigating body is the LE agency with jurisdiction. They investigate and bring their findings to the D.A.s office for the office to either empanel a GJ or to not pursue possible prosecution at that time.

    At that time, the D.A.'s office takes the information from the investigating body, the LE agency, uses the GJ powers to question eye witnesses, medical personnel if involved, and all and any pertinent witnesses, correct? This is how I interpret the separation of powers between the investigative body and the judicial system.

    Unless there's been more info disclosed on either boy, we know that one was an extremely poor witness, did not want to proceed with any charges at that time, had a mother who kept sending him off with Sandusky to bowl games and the like, and to TSM for get together events with Sandusky.

    The other boy said he only showered with Sandusky and that he hugged him but that no sexual activity occurred. I agree that it's unsavory but would it have been enough to convict Sandusky? The police tried, but did not get Sandusky on tape admitting to any salacious conduct in the Centre County case, and Sandusky apologized to the mother in very general terms.

    Did your opinion of this change over time?
    Do you have info regarding the case which was not prosecuted based on things you know as a " verified insider"?
    I do not think we can even consider one of the cases if it was NOT investigated. A D.A. can't pursue criminal prosecution if the office doesn't have a case file with the case facts, can they?

    Regarding the matter of being a verified insider= I'm not aware that you're in LE, or a family member or close friend of Mr. Gricar's. If it was it that you wrote a blog on a newspaper for a bit after Pete Bosak moved on, that was true for a period of time, but isn't it true that you aren't now writing any opinion pieces published anywhere? I've tried to access most of your blog posts and can't pull them up from archives or wherever the CDT put them. I'd like to re-read what you had to say about the Sandusky victim at that time, but can't retrieve the post or posts.
    We ARE on the same side here, looking at things related to a missing man, n'est-ce pas ?:)
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
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  17. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    Respectfully snipped,again.
    RFG decided not to prosecute Sandusky, if Sandusky "received help with the problem." This has been discussed on prior threads.

    There was speculation that RFG was "trying to build a case against Sandusky." There was no evidence that he was. Even the police report that was faxed to the DA's Office in 1998 was not on file. Just to be clear, that might be not unusual for a case that was never charged.

    Victim 6 testified. No one from the DA's Office ever interviewed him. We can't say if RFG, et al., ever interviewed B.K. No, the mother did not send him off to bowl games; there is no suggestion that he ever attended one, with or without Sandusky.

    With two separate victims, yes. He might not have done any jail time, but he would not be involved with TSM.

    Based on the trial results,the police reports, and JKA's statement, we know three things that RFG did (or didn't do) in 1998.

    1. He removed the designated abuse prosecutor, JKA. She says so, and the police report backs her up.

    2. He never interviewed Victim 6. That is from the transcript.

    3. He made his decision not to prosecute Sandusky before the LE/DPW interviewed Sandusky.

    That is from the police report and the court transcript.

    We do have a still active PSU scandal section, where this is covered in detail. Jerry Sandusky-Cover Up at Penn State

    As to the Phillips case, there has been no change of attitude. It is an example of RFG not showing favoritism to football players. With the case he had, he could have justified not prosecuting Phillips. Not only did he not use that excuse, but he argued the case personally; he didn't fob it off on an underling.

    That is something that I liked about RFG; he would often personally argue cases that were difficult or impossible to win. The buck stopped with him in that respect.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
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  18. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana May I be the person my dogs think I am! :)

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    deleted
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
  19. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    If I did misquote you, I'm very sorry.

    If you are asking about my status. I have been cited in court papers and a book regarding RFG. I have been on MSM discussing the case. I did write a blog on an MSM website about the case. I have also posted information, which has later been confirmed. I do talk to people involved in the case or that knew RFG. One of those individuals cited my "amazing knowledge."

    I will let someone else determine if I am a "verified insider." I neither seek nor reject the title.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
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  20. Trackergd

    Trackergd SAR Search Manager and Footprint Tracker

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    Wow...this took an unexpected turn. Sometimes the key to solving a case is having an open mind to alternative views of things we hold to be "truth". If we cannot explore all possibilities and scenarios, we might as well fold up camp and go home.
     

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