PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

[Betty P]

From the FBI missing poster.

Remarks:
Ray Gricar may also use the names Ray Lange or Ray Gray. He was last seen wearing a blue fleece jacket, jeans, and tennis shoes. He has ties to Ohio and California.

He used aliases in the past? Doesn't that seem unusual for a prosecutor?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

From the FBI missing poster.

Remarks:
Ray Gricar may also use the names Ray Lange or Ray Gray. He was last seen wearing a blue fleece jacket, jeans, and tennis shoes. He has ties to Ohio and California.

RFG didn't "use" the names Lange or Gray. They were his ex-wives names and appeared on a credit report.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Duplicate post.

 

[minazoe]

He used aliases in the past? Doesn't that seem unusual for a prosecutor?

this is a bit of news. hmmm...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

this is a bit of news. hmmm...

No, those are his ex wives maiden names, and showed up on credit reports. This has been out there for more than a decade.

 

[Betty P]

No, those are his ex wives maiden names, and showed up on credit reports. This has been out there for more than a decade.

Ok, thanks!

 

[skoogmagoo]

That is a possibility, but it can't be proven.

It can't be proven, but the tracking dogs lost his scent in the parking lot and according to the dog handlers that is indicative of the person having left in another vehicle.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It can't be proven, but the tracking dogs lost his scent in the parking lot and according to the dog handlers that is indicative of the person having left in another vehicle.

It can be proven that the dog did detect the scent and lost it at the edge of the parking lot (about 20 yards). The handler thought it could indicate that RFG got into a vehicle.

Sorry for being so pedantic, but that has been a point of contentions for a few years.

 

[Ozoner]

If the consensus is that RG could have tossed the laptop from the passenger window, over the concrete barricade and into the river, my guess is he drove across the bridge from Lewisburg to the other side, turned around and came back across, pulling over as close to the barricade as he dared, tossed the laptop, then a few second later, the hard drive. If the consensus is that RG could not have, it would suggest a two person scenario.

Is the assumption that the laptop must have gone over on the side of the bridge where it was found? And are we assuming that Ray wouldn't have stopped his car on the bridge to get out or crossed over the center line in order to bring his driver's-side window close to the barrier? If he was planning to commit suicide, I don't think he would have been worried about moving violations, and there may not have been any other cars on the bridge, in which case he wouldn't have been creating a safety hazard for others by doing either of the two things I mentioned. Is it possible to do a make a U-turn on the middle of the bridge, or is there a barrier between the opposing lanes of traffic?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Is the assumption that the laptop must have gone over on the side of the bridge where it was found? And are we assuming that Ray wouldn't have stopped his car on the bridge to get out or crossed over the center line in order to bring his driver's-side window close to the barrier? If he was planning to commit suicide, I don't think he would have been worried about moving violations, and there may not have been any other cars on the bridge, in which case he wouldn't have been creating a safety hazard for others by doing either of the two things I mentioned. Is it possible to do a make a U-turn on the middle of the bridge, or is there a barrier between the opposing lanes of traffic?

It is exceptionally likely that the laptop was tossed from the bridge.

A U-turn (as opposed to a 3 point turn) would either very difficult or impossible.

RFG stopping the car on the bridge, for a few seconds would be very possible especially at night. There is a traffic light at the east end of the bridge (the side opposite Lewisburg). RFG could have waited to turn green then turned onto the bridge. At night, he would know if there were any cars that could also turn on the bridge; he could see their headlights.

I've maintained that it was possible for RFG, completely alone, to have tossed the laptop while sitting in the driver's seat of the Mini. That certainly is not the only possibility.

All that said, it would be much easier to toss it from the footpath on the other side. If RFG jumped from the bridge, the easiest way would have been to jump from the footpath. The footpath is on the south side of the bridge; the laptop was on the north side of the bridge.

 

[minazoe]

He used aliases in the past? Doesn't that seem unusual for a prosecutor?

well I do know that my cousin is a judge and back in the day he had a couple aliases..didnt publish his phone number etc. because some of the stuff he worked on "family law" could make unhinged people really lose their marbles and threaten etc...so I could see it but in what circumstance, I have no idea...mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

well I do know that my cousin is a judge and back in the day he had a couple aliases..didnt publish his phone number etc. because some of the stuff he worked on "family law" could make unhinged people really lose their marbles and threaten etc...so I could see it but in what circumstance, I have no idea...mOO

Those were both the last names of RFG's ex-wives, so I'm inclined to believe the credit report explanation.

BTW: it is not a crime to use an alias. Believe it or not, my parents did not name me "J. J. in Phlia."

 

[Betty P]

Those were both the last names of RFG's ex-wives, so I'm inclined to believe the credit report explanation.

BTW: it is not a crime to use an alias. Believe it or not, my parents dis not name me "J. J. in Phlia."

Have had similar happen on credit reports. Applied to re-fi our mortgage for a lower rate and they made me sign off on my "aliases" which were my maiden name, plus both married and maiden names with middle initial instead of full middle name, etc. All me, not an alias, per se.

 

[minazoe]

but generally using the maiden name of an ex etc, for a man is unusual...if it appears on financial records this is a little sketchy , just saying. Some men might use another name to say..rent an apartment for trysts..set up gas or electricity , or extra phones to use secretly.

I would be interested to know how these aliases were used.

this could be an indicator of something in Ray's character....or not..still worth it to at least know how he used these names and the reason.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

but generally using the maiden name of an ex etc, for a man is unusual...if it appears on financial records this is a little sketchy , just saying. Some men might use another name to say..rent an apartment for trysts..set up gas or electricity , or extra phones to use secretly.

I would be interested to know how these aliases were used.

this could be an indicator of something in Ray's character....or not..still worth it to at least know how he used these names and the reason.

As far as I know, it was just a credit report.

 

[minazoe]

As far as I know, it was just a credit report.

yes just a c-report but it is on there because he used these names on something that reports into the agency, or it appears on documents such as taxes, employment or maybe medical records , insurance policies etc. I used different names many years ago due to my mother's use of other names and her marriages..for instance I was registered in school under her nee name and had my first ss under that name, but then had to change it because it was never really legally my name...so hence you will find an alias on my records.

if he never used these last names for anything , they would not appear. I am pretty sure, unless someone knows differently. mOO

 

[White Wolf]

Hi. New person here. Been reacquainting myself with this missing persons' case over the past few weeks and signed up for Websleuths so that I could join in on this conversation. Wondering if someone might be able to give me clarity on the Mapquest search found in Ray's web browser history? I tried to do a google search to pinpoint the earlier discussions had about this topic, so forgive me if I sound redundant at all, but the main thing that I wanted clarification on is, was there also a physical print out of the Mapquest directions found?

For some reason, I thought that I had read somewhere that there existed a physical print out of the directions in addition to the digital search for the directions? (It is very possible that I simply misread though.) Aside from positive or negative confirmation on this issue, any and all fact-based details pertaining to the Mapquest search on Ray's work computer would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I'm a native of PA and lived 45 minutes away from Bellefonte for 23 years, so I am familiar with all of the areas of interest in Gricar's case—only mentioning this so as not to waste anyone's time with wanting to get too heavy into explaining either the significance or insignificance of Ray's trip to Lewisburg that day. Thanks all!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Hi. New person here. Been reacquainting myself with this missing persons' case over the past few weeks and signed up for Websleuths so that I could join in on this conversation. Wondering if someone might be able to give me clarity on the Mapquest search found in Ray's web browser history? I tried to do a google search to pinpoint the earlier discussions had about this topic, so forgive me if I sound redundant at all, but the main thing that I wanted clarification on is, was there also a physical print out of the Mapquest directions found?

For some reason, I thought that I had read somewhere that there existed a physical print out of the directions in addition to the digital search for the directions? (It is very possible that I simply misread though.) Aside from positive or negative confirmation on this issue, any and all fact-based details pertaining to the Mapquest search on Ray's work computer would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I'm a native of PA and lived 45 minutes away from Bellefonte for 23 years, so I am familiar with all of the areas of interest in Gricar's case—only mentioning this so as not to waste anyone's time with wanting to get too heavy into explaining either the significance or insignificance of Ray's trip to Lewisburg that day. Thanks all!

Welcome, from a fellow native.

There was no physical printout found of which I am aware. LE discovered the map when they checked RFG's computer on the afternoon of 4/16/05. Because it was quickly discovered, it was likely done recently, sometime during that week. He was last in the office on 4/14/05, so that is the last day the search could have occurred. I am aware that he also checked the weather for Lewisburg, along with the Raystown area.

None of that precludes that RFG did print out a map.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[White Wolf]

Thanks, J. J.! Also, since we’re on the topic of 4/14/05, what else is known about the state of Ray’s office as he left it? (Again, apologies everyone if this is at all redundant.)

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks, J. J.! Also, since we’re on the topic of 4/14/05, what else is known about the state of Ray’s office as he left it? (Again, apologies everyone if this is at all redundant.)

We do have a photo of his desk which included the May desk calendar. He did not have any trial that he would do personally scheduled until late May-early June.

Here is the timeline:

Thursday, 4/14/05

8:00 AM: Ray F. Gricar (RFG) attends a Prison Board Meeting in the Willow Bank Building. Minutes show a routine meeting, that dealt with an employee grievance (union thing). Meeting ended at 8:45 AM, though there may have a closed session to deal with the grievance.

Participants noted that RFG seemed to mumble answers to questions and was looking out the window. Uncharacteristic, but consistent with other reports since at least 3/8/05.

c. 10:30-11:00 AM RFG spotted near a boat launch at Lake Raystown, by a "doctor" who knew him.

Before 5:00 PM RFG exchanged some e-mail with then defense attorney Stacy Parks Miller (SPM), regarding a case. He was joking around with her.

unknown time Daughter Lara Gricar (LG) called RFG briefly. She would call him several times a week to check in with him. She has indicated she just called to tell him she loved him.

2:00-4:00 PM Then ADA J. Karen Arnold (JKA) heard what she described as "forcefully closing" the door to RFG's office. She noted that that when he was stressed, he had a habit of closing his door in such a manner, if "busy or preoccupied."

c. 5:30-6:00 PM RFG and live in girlfriend (and coworker) Patty Fornicola (PEF) seen walking in Tallyrand Park, by former County Commissioner Vicky Wedler (who often opposed Gricar when she served). She described Gricar as looking "depressed." She commented to both of them that they looked like "a perfect couple." RFG and PEF continued walking and after another turn around the park left.

6:21 PM RFG on security video entering the rear entrance of the Courthouse. He was driving the red Mini Cooper, and was not carrying the laptop. He was wearing the fleece.

9:03 PM RFG seen exiting the Courthouse and driving off in his car. He was not carrying the laptop. One source makes it 8:03 PM.

NB: The most direct route to Lake Raystown is about 55 miles. RFG could have left Bellefonte at 9:00 AM and arrived the by 10:30 AM. He was also known to exceed the speed limit and as being an "adventurous driver."