PARENTS KILLED AMBER ALERT ISSUED FOR 13-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER
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POLICE NEED PUBLIC'S HELP IN FINDING MISSING AND PREGNANT KIERRA COLES

PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #5

Discussion in '2000's Missing' started by christine2448, Oct 13, 2008.

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  1. christine2448

    christine2448 Retired WS Staff

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    Please continue here.
     
  2. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Christine. :)

    JJ, I didn't realize he was with his first wife when there was an incident about him just going to a ballgame. Like I said, someone had him under their thumb at that point, at least.

    I have never seen a photo of his ex wife to know what she looks like, but I have seen photos of Patti. For her age, an attractive lady, from what I could tell. She seemed petite, dark haired, that's about all I remember.

    Regarding the car, the Mini is a stand out model of car in most of the USA. I notice Minis in Dallas. That's what I meant more than " expensive and flashy". It's really neither. A former boyfriend of mine bought a red Corvette with a personalized license plate that said Bbbbad ( from the song Bad To The Bone)- he was a cop having a mid-life crisis. That's an example of flash.
    The Mini Cooper is merely standout because of its size and shape among other cars and because there were so few of them on the road at that time, especially.

    Maria
     
  3. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    It was his second wife, I'll abbreviate her as EG, because she hasn't been identified in most of the press stories. His first wife was Barbara Gray, who lives in State College and is Lara's mother.

    I have not either, but I've heard some descriptions.

    Ms. Fornicola is by no means ugly, but she isn't a tall blond supermodel type either. She's maybe 5'6" with short black hair. She's not fat, but not skinny, either. And, while she does not look old, she didn't look like she was in early 20's either. I wouldn't describe her as a trophy wife/girlfriend type. Attractive, but not stunning. When I finally found her photo, I must admit to being surprised.

    I know what you mean, but it's hard to characterize. It wasn't an economy car, but it was not a Corvette either. If you didn't know him, and I didn't, you'd kind of ask me what kind of a car I'd expect a 59 year old Republican DA would drive, a Mini Cooper would not come to mind. :)

    Those people who actually know him didn't find anything odd in him buying the Mini and didn't think it was a midlife crisis.

    And my thanks to Christine as well.
     
  4. Airplane

    Airplane New Member

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    The most commonly accepted reasons for Ray Gricar's disapparence are:

    1) He was abducted and murdered.
    2) He left of his own accord to start a new life.
    3) He committed suicide.

    I think all of those are possible as I just do not know what happened to him.

    However, there is also the remote possibility that he simply went for a walk in the woods and keeled over with a stroke, heart attack, or something of the like. It does happen to even otherwise healthy people. After all, FloJo died in her sleep and she was not too many years removed from being an Olympic champion. I know it's highly unlikely, but I think it is a possibility.
     
  5. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    If it was the woods (and there are some wooded areas in a park around where the Mini was found) the body would been found long ago.

    It is possible that he had a health problem or accident and fell into the river, but why hasn't the body been found.
     
  6. Airplane

    Airplane New Member

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    The body might not have been found. Look at how long it took them to find Chandra Levy and she was in a park. It would have been possible for him to walk a couple of miles or more in any direction, cross the road, or any number of things that could keep him well hidden for a very long time. I realize that's it's highly unlikely, but I think it is a possibility.
     
  7. OriginalJerseyGirl

    OriginalJerseyGirl CERTIFIED FLYERS FANATIC!

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    This is exactly what I meant when I said that this is incredibly shocking to me. Wanting to know how to erase a hard drive is not mysterious. In conjunction with all of the other things we now know, it becomes very mysterious, IMO.
     
  8. OriginalJerseyGirl

    OriginalJerseyGirl CERTIFIED FLYERS FANATIC!

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    Amen!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    They did use both blood hounds and a cadaver dog, with little luck. The dogs discovered Mr. Gricar's scent in the parking lot, but that's about it.
     
  10. Airplane

    Airplane New Member

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    I think it's about as likely that he went for a walk and keeled over as it is that he committed suicide. Possible, yes. Probable, no. The suicide theory is about as probable as the went for walk and keeled over theory. They're both remotely possible, but simply not very likely.
     
  11. reb

    reb New Member

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    why is this thread in the located section if he has not been located?
     
  12. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    The big question is, why no body. Possibly it was in the river, but that is still unlikely.
     
  13. OriginalJerseyGirl

    OriginalJerseyGirl CERTIFIED FLYERS FANATIC!

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    The forum contains both missing & located threads, (title = Missing/Located Forum Discussion). I've never really understood why missing & located are combined in this way.
     
  14. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    I give suicide about a 9% chance, murder 44%, walkaway 46%. I give about 1% for "everything else," including an accident.
     
  15. Lili

    Lili My opinion only.

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  16. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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  17. SeekingJana

    SeekingJana Well-Known Member

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    I used to live on the banks of a major, fast moving, extremely deep US river. Bodies were ALWAYS found.

    I have also lived on the Gulf of Mexico. Bodies were not always found there, but for reasons related to tides, predatory animals such as sharks and so forth.

    I have read that the Sus. River was VERY shallow where Ray's laptop and hard drive was found, close to where his car was parked near the bridge over the river. I read on the CTV forum, when it was up and running well, that if he jumped, he probably wouldn't die, it was like jumping into a swimming pool. Maybe the description wasn't accurate, I don't know.

    With the Benjaman Kyle case, I have been more aware of the reasons people leave their lives or disappear.
    There are a couple of " What ifs" I want to throw out for discussion in this case, but I know that most people, like me, do have a lot of respect for Mr. Gricar, and for what they know about his life as stated in the media.

    If it's OK, I will start a generalized thread about " Why and how do people disappear" in the JR. I don't want to disrespect Mr. Gricar and the question and hypotheses related to the question are not specific to his case, since we have a missing person only here.
     
  18. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    If you start another thread, please post the link here. I would be interested.

    The Susquehanna was still high on the day Mr. Gricar disappeared. My guess, I wasn't there, was about 3 to 6 feet higher than when the laptop was found. Still, it would be unusual that a body would not be found, even unlikely.
     
  19. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    I have some more information on the level of the Susquehanna, sent to me by an area resident that was strolling along. :) It was based on personal observations (his) and gauge data.

    The water was about 16 inches lower when the divers first searched it that it was on 4/15/05. It was very murky. This would have been the week of 4/17/05.

    When the laptop was found, the water had dropped another 23 inches. This was July 30, 2005.

    The water dropped another 3 inches when the hard drive was found. This was early October 2005.

    In late September 2005, IIRC, there were heavy rains and the river went up a bit, but no flooding.
     
  20. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    Mr. Gricar discussed a second walkaway case with his friend and an ADA, Stephen Sloane. It was the case of fugitive Cambria County former judge, Joseph O'Kicki. Mr. O'Kicki fled the county to his ancestral home, Slovenia, in 1992. Mr. Gricar's family was also from Slovenia, and he had visited it.

    Mr. Gricar had discussed two cases where someone voluntarily walked away, Hinckley Township, OH police chief Mel Wiley and former Cambria County judge, Joseph O'Kicki.

    http://community.centredaily.com/?q=node/6371

    A bit of information on O'Kicki:

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9502E5D6143DF932A25750C0A962958260
     
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