Identified! PA - White Haven, 'Beth Doe' & Unborn Baby 169UFPA, 16-22, Dec'76 - #1 - Evelyn Colon

Discussion in 'Identified!' started by Richard, Oct 28, 2004.

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  1. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I appreciate that. And my sympathy for what you went through with your mom. It's hard watching somebody you love just disappear in front of your eyes.

    I found this photo of the suitcases, zippers, and handles: http://www.pennsylvaniamissing.com/bethdoephotos.html You can click on the photo to get a larger view.

    Looks like it wasn't just the zippers that were painted but the whole zippered side of the soft-sided case (those look like the cheap American Tourister softsides that college kids were buying to travel to Europe with, btw). The obvious thing that came to my mind was that black suitcase submerged in water would be hard to find.

    You can also see on the brown suitcase how the handle was cut -- it looks like snipped through with a serious metal cutter.

    It also struck me kind of odd that all three suitcases are the same size, especially the two that are identical. People usually buy different sizes when they buy a set.

    I have some thoughts about the timeline, too, but I'll have to wait to post those after we get the Christmas tree.
     


  2. Unknownlady

    Unknownlady UID

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    Hey - I understand loss. Death sucks. Sickness sucks. Getting old sucks.

    I took care of my partially paralyzed mom for 13 years in my home, the last 2 years she was in diapers and bedridden. She was wheelchair-bound for most of those years. I had nurses and help. My husband (bless his soul) and I purchased a house on one level so she could live with us.

    Death can be a blessing, but I miss her all the time. I would take her back in a heartbeat, diapers and all - I miss her so. No one loves you like you mom.

    So sorry for all of our losses.
     
  3. hmg

    hmg Active Member

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    So many things to say here but I'll try to keep it brief.

    -First, here's Beth's Squidoo page
    I just finished up. Let me know what I can do to make it better, change, etc. Next job is to publicize it and work on getting it indexed by Google.

    -Wow, http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/598ufca.html does bare a resemblance to Beth for sure.

    -I had some of the same thoughts about people ignoring this victim because they think something like, "Oh she looks like so-and-so but so-and-so wasn't pregnant" so I made a point in the page about that.

    -Another thought on the suitcases: They were possibly Americana themed-- red, white, and blue striped. 1976 was the bicentennial, lots of promotional red, white, and blue items were around, could there be an angle there we could look at there?

    -Does September 26, 1976 have any significance? There seems to be three scenarios in my mind:
    -Killer was just a slob who had three month old newspapers lying around his house or car. I probably have an older paper in my own car :blushing:
    -The date was meaningful to the killer so he was saving the newspaper but then either inadvertently or out of desperation used it.
    -The killer purposely included the newspaper as some sort of clue or message regarding why Beth was killed or her identity. Example- A story about a mob hit was supposedly in the paper that day, killer included it to demonstrate this mob related (just an example it could be anything).
     
  4. Laura_Bean

    Laura_Bean Active Member

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    Beg to differ a little bit here... Maybe he just couldn't fit her in one suitcase and that is why he dismembered her. I am not saying this person isn't a sick and twisted individual to be able to do that, but fear of getting caught could definitly have played a part in giving him that needed courage to cut this girl apart and place her in the suitcases. Perhaps he just didn't have anything larger to put her into and was scared of being caught so he did that to fit her into the three suitcases he did have.
     
  5. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    I've been poking around on websites for vintage luggage but haven't found anything similar. I think it's too cheap to have become collectible, or even to have survived this long. But I still have a couple hundred sites in the list, so I'll keep going. I might even try emailing the suitcase photos to a couple of the collectors to see if they have any ideas.

    Do you know if Sallie Margaret Reed was ever submitted as a possible match? She went missing in Louisiana in February 1976; if she eloped, for instance, and got pregnant right away, she'd have been due in December. I see several mentions of her but no indication anybody ever followed through. The resemblance is quite striking -- I'd pot it but I don't know how to do those nifty side-by-side thumbnails.
     
  6. Unknownlady

    Unknownlady UID

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    " Does September 26, 1976 have any significance? "

    * Fall time in the Poconos is almost a holiday event. The leaves are changing and the beauty of the area is magnificent. Many tourists come to visit during the fall.
    * The Bloomsburg State Fair takes place every year during the last 2 weeks of September for the last 150 years. It is a HUGE county fair - lots of animals, fair peeps, carnies, etc. You can google this, but they do not publicize past event, only the current fair. Bloomsburg is approximately a 45 minute drive from White Haven. You can take I-80 there. Beth was dumped from a bridge on I-80.
    * In the 1970's - Nascar races became popular in the Poconos. There is a race track there - Pocono Downs. When I google Poconos 1970s - that is all I find is news about race cars, races, winners, etc.
    * In the 1970s, White Haven became a mecca for white water rafting along the Lehigh River (Beth was found along this river). White Water Rafting rescued White Haven and many other towns in the Poconos from ruin - now many active adults visit because of the rafting and other outsoor activities.

    My husband and I visit the Poconos every fall many times.
     
  7. Unknownlady

    Unknownlady UID

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    "Do you know if Sallie Margaret Reed was ever submitted as a possible match? She went missing in Louisiana in February 1976; if she eloped, for instance, and got pregnant right away, she'd have been due in December. I see several mentions of her but no indication anybody ever followed through. The resemblance is quite striking -- I'd pot it but I don't know how to do those nifty side-by-side thumbnails.[/QUOTE]"

    I submitted this match some time ago...I have heard nothing. Can we submit it again?
     
  8. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Hi Suzy, sorry I didn't see your post earlier. Welcome to the thread.

    I imagine they could do a DNA profile on the baby, and match the father if they had a candidate. I don't think they have anybody in mind, though. Or they haven't said if they did.
     
  9. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, it sucks, but life goes on. And we get to carry the good parts in our hearts.
     
  10. Unknownlady

    Unknownlady UID

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    Carbuff,

    That is the problem with Beth Doe - no one seems to be looking for her...why?

    That is why I am thinking that her murderer/family wanted her to disappear or were involved.
     
  11. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the murderer certainly wanted her to disappear. But I'm not convinced everybody did. I'm not convinced nobody is looking for her. There's some connection that hasn't been made -- too far away in geography, time, culture maybe, or some identifying characteristic they're looking for that doesn't show up in Beth's description. Or vice versa. As hmg has it in the Squidoo site, "Oh, my friend wasn't pregnant."

    But I'm convinced that if we keep trying, we'll eventually find who she is, and give her back her name. And I think when we do that, we'll go a long way toward finding who killed her.
     
  12. hmg

    hmg Active Member

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    I tend to agree with carbuff on this one. Perhaps her family is involved, that would certainly explain a lot, but that doesn't mean NO ONE is looking for her. There must be friends, boyfriends, coworkers, classmates, just someone saying, "What happened to so-and-so"? The problem is these people may not necessarily be in the mindset that the person they're looking for is a "missing person".

    Or maybe there's people very aware of the fact that she is a missing person but they don't look at Beth Doe because they don't think that the missing person they're looking for was pregnant or they don't think her sketches/ composites look like they person they're looking for (all four pictures or drawings I've seen look pretty different, it's hard to get a good sense of what really looked like). Maybe her parents filed a missing persons report, police assumed she was a runaway, and the file is stashed away somewhere collecting dust. That last scenario seems heartbreakingly common during the time period Beth Doe was killed.

    There's a lot of variables here. I know that because she was pregnant it seems like she should be easier to identify or that it is more likely that someone is looking for her but look at the hundreds of UIDs that were either found in the 1970s or died then and were found later. Do you think all of them don't have someone looking for them? For the vast majority of them there is someone looking but there just hasn't been a connection yet between the missing person and the UID.
     
  13. Spurser

    Spurser Inquire Within

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    Her fetus was healthy. Perhaps she sought prenatal care? Was that as routine back then as it is now? I wonder if all the OB/GYN's in surrounding areas were shown her picture. Surely, if she was close to her due date, her doctor would have wondered what happened to her.
     
  14. hmg

    hmg Active Member

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    Here's a list of every woman between the ages of 14-25 on Charley who had brown hair and disappeared in 1975 or 1976. I did not include women who a killer definitely claimed as their victim.

    1976
    Karen Beth Kamsch (14, MD, unknown date 1976) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kamsch_karen.html

    Lori Jean Lloyd (14, OH, 2/11/1976) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lloyd_lori.html

    Maria Florence Anjiras (14, CT, 2/12/1976) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/anjiras_maria.html

    Sallie Margaret Reed (21, LA, 2/19/1976) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/reed_sallie.html

    Wilma Rae Vermaas (23, CA, 4/3/1976) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/v/vermaas_wilma.html

    Nancy Lynn Kirkpatrick (16, MT, 4/21/1976) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kirkpatrick_nancy.html

    Joanna Benner (21, FL, 5/1976) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/benner_joanne.html

    Cynthia Kinney (16, OK, 6/23/1976) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kinney_cynthia.html

    Carol Lynn Roberts (18, FL 8/15/1976) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/roberts_carol.html

    Barbara Glueckert (14, IL, 8/21/1976) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/glueckert_barbara.html

    Cherry Ann Greenman (19, WA, 9/14/1976) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/greenman_cherry.html

    Betty Irene Redmond (25, MD, 9/26/1976) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/redmond_betty.html

    Trenny Lynn Gibson (16, TN, 10/8/1976) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/gibson_trenny.html

    1975
    Debra Jean Kent (17, UT, 11/8/1975) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kent_debra.html

    Phyliis Eleanor Berry (21, TX, 11/1/1975) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/berry_phyllis.html

    Colleen Vanita Simpson (14, IA, 10/5/1975) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/simpson_colleen.html

    Dorothy Wood Madden (25, OH, 8/8/1975) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/madden_dorothy.html

    Edna Christine Thorne (15, PA, 6/24, 1975) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/thorne_edna.html

    Wendy Eaton (15, PA, 5/17/1975) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/e/eaton_wendy.html

    Aleca Manning (22, AZ, 2/17/1975) http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/manning_aleca.html

    Patricia Ruth Spahn (23, 2/11/1975) http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1790dfil.html
     
  15. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    The nose is such an important part of how a person looks -- not having that makes it hard to tell what she would have looked like in life. Not to mention that removal probably damaged her eyes and cheekbones, too.

    It occurred to me recently that another reason for removing nose and ears might be if a hit man needed to bring proof to the person who hired him. (That would fit LoD -- hands -- and the woman found floating in Chesapeake Bay -- head -- in the same year.) Or a serial killer keeping souvenirs.

    Is this thread the appropriate place to do some brainstorming? I have some random thoughts that might not lead anywhere that I'd like to share. Or would StaceyK's blog be a better place?
     
  16. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Afterthought: but you're right -- if in fact nobody is looking for her, that would be a clue in itself.

    In that case, I wonder whether they might have killed her lover, too. Are there any men missing in the area at about the same time, or unidentified/murdered males found?
     
  17. hmg

    hmg Active Member

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    Funny you should mention that carbuff because I had the same exact thought while compiling the list I posted about a boyfriend/ husband being missing or unidentified as well.
     
  18. Unknownlady

    Unknownlady UID

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  19. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Geez, did you see the DATE on this one? September 26, 1976? And the facial similarity? And married woman likely done in by her husband?

    It doesn't mention pregnancy. And geez, where could she have been for three months?
     
  20. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Wow, *very* impressive work!

    Well, not with a description that we recognize, anyway. Or maybe not to an agency that puts reports online. If she's missing from, just an example, a remote mountain county in northern Idaho, the family might be nagging the sheriff's office every week, but if the sheriff's office never had time to put 30-year old reports on line, we'd never hear about it. Also, if she's a minority/immigrant as we suspect she might have been, it's quite possible that LE didn't even take them seriously, because too often they think "women like her" just do things like that. The poorer the family, the more likely they were to have been mistreated by LE.

    On quick examination, I notice that the guy from my high school who went missing 30 years ago doesn't seem to be anywhere, either. I'll have to check some more, then ask some mutual friends if they've found him and I didn't hear about it, or if he needs to be put on.
     
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