Partially Wrapped Gifts

[UKGuy]

you seem to constantly over look BR got the most desired must have toy of the year a Nintendo.
wasn't out of his sight for a second.
he cleaned up just fine for Christmas.

k-mac,
If it was relevant I would cite it. I was trying to reconcile Kolar's description of Burke's partially opened gifts as Christmas Presents and Patsy's claim that she opened them. Red Flag there.

Just what are they doing in the wine cellar along with JonBenet and her barbie nightgown?

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[UKGuy]

I always thought they had a battle Christmas morning (no pictures or tapes) and the gifts were put in the basement as punishment. Are you saying the basement gifts are actually part of the staging?

Ambitioned,
Yes, looks like something happened. No video tape, highly unusual for Patsy who would want it all taped.

Maybe the morning disagreement continued after they arrived back from the White's?

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[Ambitioned]

Ambitioned,
Yes, looks like something happened. No video tape, highly unusual for Patsy who would want it all taped.

Maybe the morning disagreement continued after they arrived back from the White's?

.

That's what I'm thinking!

 

[k-mac]

k-mac,
If it was relevant I would cite it. I was trying to reconcile Kolar's description of Burke's partially opened gifts as Christmas Presents and Patsy's claim that she opened them. Red Flag there.

Just what are they doing in the wine cellar along with JonBenet and her barbie nightgown?

.

it is relevant.
because the agenda here is BR was unhappy with his christmas lot.
I don't believe that the case.
not disputing a riff Christmas morning totally agree. however PR didn't punish those kids ever. (which at the end of the day is BDI reasoning... the patsy allowing her son to kill her daughter and then just coming along and tidying it up for him so he gets to carry on being a spoilt brat forever.)
the kaios surrounding PR it doesn't surprise me there was left overs and bits and pieces laying around.
it is possible the kids were snooping at the dregs.

 

[Userid]

^ Agree, K-mac, and I also don't believe that simply because there are limited pictures and/or no video of Christmas morning, that it's somehow proof that something happened that morning. Something could have happened that morning, but that isn't indicative by the lack of photos/videos. Personally speaking, I've had Christmases where zero photos/videos were taken during my childhood and Christmases where literally one to two photos were taken; this isn't all that rare.

 

[OliviaG1996]

you seem to constantly over look BR got the most desired must have toy of the year a Nintendo.
wasn't out of his sight for a second.
he cleaned up just fine for Christmas.

You think a spoiled child would immediately stop being spoiled the moment he received one much wanted present? Especially when his sister got twice as many presents? IMO, kids tend to think quantity over quality when it comes to receiving gifts.

 

[OliviaG1996]

Was any DNA found on the partially wrapped gifts? Am gonna assume Patsy's was found..

If the gifts were tested (big "if"), I don't think that information has ever been released. Same goes for DNA testing of the spoon and tea glass. Strange, IMO.

 

[Userid]

You think a spoiled child would immediately stop being spoiled the moment he received one much wanted present? Especially when his sister got twice as many presents? IMO, kids tend to think quantity over quality when it comes to receiving gifts.

No one knows how many presents each person in that family received. I think people try to use the gifts as some sort of motive here too haphazardly.

 

[OliviaG1996]

No one knows how many presents each person in that family received. I think people try to use the gifts as some sort of motive here too haphazardly.

The list of gifts received by each member of the Ramsey family is available on ACandyRose here.

 

[Userid]

^ But we don't know if that list is exhaustive. I find it hard to believe that a family of this type of "privledge" only had 10 gifts total among them all; and that JR only received one gift of a "gumball machine."

These 10 gifts are only the gifts that are mentioned in the book DOI. That doesn't mean that more gifts were not given; it simply means that the rest of the gifts were not mentioned in this particular book.

 

[OliviaG1996]

^ But we don't know if that list is exhaustive. I find it hard to believe that a family of this type of "privledge" only had 10 gifts total among them all; and that JR only received one gift of a "gumball machine."

These 10 gifts are only the gifts that are mentioned in the book DOI. That doesn't mean that more gifts were not given; it simply means that the rest of the gifts were not mentioned in this particular book.

Where are the rest of BR's gifts, though, and what are they? (Other than the ones still wrapped in the wine cellar, of course.) It can't be assumed that since he might have received more gifts that have never been accounted for, it's unlikely a confrontation concerning sibling rivalry occurred.

 

[Userid]

Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence, with regard to the gifts.

It can't be assumed that these are the only gifts that the entire family received, simply because they're the only ones documented in this one book. It's inventing a motive to fit a narrative (that BR was jealous of his lack of gifts), based on a very weak assumption.

 

[OliviaG1996]

Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence, with regard to the gifts.

It can't be assumed that these are the only gifts that the entire family received, simply because they're the only ones documented in this one book. It's inventing a motive to fit a narrative (that BR was jealous of his lack of gifts), based on a very weak assumption.

How is inventing a motive based on a weak assumption different from discounting a theory based on an even weaker assumption?

 

[Userid]

How is inventing a motive based on a weak assumption different from discounting a theory based on an even weaker assumption?

Because my assumption is quite stronger, in all honesty -- for the reasons I explained above.

You are assuming that only 10 gifts were among the total gifts for the whole family and/or that JR got a total of one gift (a gumball machine). You are also assuming that, simply because 10 gifts were all that were mentioned in DOI, that there were no other gifts purchased.

Also, we know this list isn't exhaustive from the following exchange:

JOHN RAMSEY: Right. I started to get Burke
22 into bed; get him ready. And he was sitting in the
23 living room working on a toy, an assembly little
24 toy he got for Christmas. And I could see that I
25 was going to get him to go easy. So I sat down and
0115
1 helped him put it together to try to expedite the
2 process.

Here are the list of 10 gifts:

Burke got Nintendo64 · DOI-2
Burke got a remote control car · DOI-3
John got a gumball machine · DOI-4
JonBenet got a bicycle · DOI-2
JonBenet got a My Twinn Doll · DOI-3, 4, 32, 242
JonBenet got a gold bracelet · DOI-344
JonBenet got a ring from Nedra · NE-51
JonBenet got a necklace from Pam · NE-51
Patsy got a bicycle · DOI-3
Patsy got green paper ornament · DOI-274

The list in DOI/A Candy Rose makes absolutely zero mention of an "assembly toy" in the list of 10 gifts. A remote control car wouldn't require a 20 minute assembly -- I played with remote control cars, including wireless/expensive ones, growing up. The only assembly required would be inserting the battery. The nintendo wouldn't be described as a "an assembly little toy" by JR in the interview. If this "assembly toy" was omitted in the list in DOI, who knows what else was omitted.

 

[OliviaG1996]

Because my assumption is quite stronger, in all honesty -- for the reasons I explained above.

You are assuming that only 10 gifts were among the total gifts for the whole family and/or that JR got a total of one gift (a gumball machine). You are also assuming that, simply because 10 gifts were all that were mentioned in DOI, that there were no other gifts purchased.

Also, we know this list isn't exhaustive from the following exchange:

JOHN RAMSEY: Right. I started to get Burke
22 into bed; get him ready. And he was sitting in the
23 living room working on a toy, an assembly little
24 toy he got for Christmas. And I could see that I
25 was going to get him to go easy. So I sat down and
0115
1 helped him put it together to try to expedite the
2 process.

Here are the list of 10 gifts:

Burke got Nintendo64 · DOI-2
Burke got a remote control car · DOI-3
John got a gumball machine · DOI-4
JonBenet got a bicycle · DOI-2
JonBenet got a My Twinn Doll · DOI-3, 4, 32, 242
JonBenet got a gold bracelet · DOI-344
JonBenet got a ring from Nedra · NE-51
JonBenet got a necklace from Pam · NE-51
Patsy got a bicycle · DOI-3
Patsy got green paper ornament · DOI-274

The list in DOI/A Candy Rose makes absolutely zero mention of an "assembly toy" in the list of 10 gifts. A remote control car wouldn't require a 20 minute assembly -- I played with remote control cars, including wireless/expensive ones, growing up. The only assembly required would be inserting the battery. The nintendo wouldn't be described as a "an assembly little toy" by JR in the interview. If this "assembly toy" was omitted in the list in DOI, who knows what else was omitted.

Thank you for the research, but you are assuming (this word's getting old :blushing that anything the Ramseys said they did after they came home from the Whites is true. We don't know that this toy JR is talking about is real; we've never seen it. Also assumed is that the Rs would spend more money for presents simply because they're rich.

I'll leave this here, because I think it's quite relevant:

Burke Ramsey's 1997 Interview

Throughout the interview he showed little warmth towards his family, but at the same time was very protective of them. According to Burke, the worst thing they did was not buy him expensive toys.

 

[Userid]

^Well, you're assuming that they're telling the truth with DOI and their 10 gift Christmas list all the same, so that excuse doesn't really work in this argument.

Also, all you need to do is simply count the presents in these two photos:

There are at least 8 to 10 presents in this picture alone (including the two in their hands and the one in the back next to the couch): https://k60.kn3.net/taringa/7/D/F/B/6/9/mylady22/895.jpg

There are at least 10 presents and up to about 15 presents arguably, alone in this picture, on the other side of the tree (including the bikes): http://i40.tinypic.com/i1itzm.jpg

I'll say again: do you believe that all JR got for a Christmas gift from his entire family was mini-gumball machine that retailed for $30?

 

[icedtea4me]

You think a spoiled child would immediately stop being spoiled the moment he received one much wanted present? Especially when his sister got twice as many presents? IMO, kids tend to think quantity over quality when it comes to receiving gifts.

Looks like you forgot that JonBenet rejected the My Twinn doll. As for the ring (Grandma Nedra), necklace (Aunt Pam), and bracelet (Patsy), they were only mentioned because they were found on JonBenet's dead body.

Do you honestly think that Burke wouldn't have received anything from his Grandma Nedra and Aunt Pam, yes or no?

 

[UKGuy]

^ Agree, K-mac, and I also don't believe that simply because there are limited pictures and/or no video of Christmas morning, that it's somehow proof that something happened that morning. Something could have happened that morning, but that isn't indicative by the lack of photos/videos. Personally speaking, I've had Christmases where zero photos/videos were taken during my childhood and Christmases where literally one to two photos were taken; this isn't all that rare.

Userid,
Nobody is interested in your Christmas experience, why? Because we cannot infer anything about the R's from how your life has unfolded!

You continually post non sequiturs similar to your remarks about the presents, patently not realizing your reasoning is flaky.

If you can find an instance, just one, where the R's had a prior Christmas with no video and minimal photos, then you are justified in your belief.

Otherwise others can make inferences based on no video being taken and minimal photos being available. They might be wrong at the end of the day, but the reasoning is valid.

.

 

[UKGuy]

How is inventing a motive based on a weak assumption different from discounting a theory based on an even weaker assumption?

OliviaG1996,
You are correct in your initial assumption.

Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence, with regard to the gifts.

This is a non sequitur since the absence of the Christmas Video can be assumed to be material, i.e. the R's normally take a video.

Its possible to suggest that the partially opened gifts belonging to Burke found in the wine-cellar might have appeared in any missing Christmas Video?

Since Kolar refers to them as Christmas Gifts, not Birthday Gifts. So although Patsy has an explanation for Burke's opened gifts being in the wine-cellar, e.g. she opened them, another explanation is that they are there to disconnect them from events earlier in the day?

.

 

[OliviaG1996]

Looks like you forgot that JonBenet rejected the My Twinn doll. As for the ring (Grandma Nedra), necklace (Aunt Pam), and bracelet (Patsy), they were only mentioned because they were found on JonBenet's dead body.

Do you honestly think that Burke wouldn't have received anything from his Grandma Nedra and Aunt Pam, yes or no?

Do you think BR and JBR got the same amount of presents, yes or no?

Whether or not BR received anything from Nedra or Pam is irrelevant; JBR would've gotten something, too. She was the favorite, after all. That hasn't really been disputed until BR's staunch defenders have come out to play.