Pat Brown profiler weighs in on case

[DrollForeignFaction]

I can't give you a source at the moment but iirc reporting near the time of the trial claimed that Westerfield revealed the location of the body to his lawyer who then used that information as a bargaining chip with the prosecution.

I’ll give you guys a source! Overview from Wikipedia, see wiki for its sources:

When the trial was over, the media, quoting unnamed police sources, reported that Westerfield's lawyers were just minutes away from negotiating a plea bargain when a group of private citizen searchers organized by the Laura Recovery Centerfound Danielle's body. According to these reports, under the deal Westerfield would have taken police to the site where her body was located, in exchange for a sentence of life without parole.Both the prosecution and the defense declined to comment on these reports. Many people, including Fox News commentator Bill O'Reilly, expressed outrage at the revelation, claiming that Westerfield's attorneys misled the jury by proposing an "unknown kidnapper scenario" even though their client said he knew the location of the body; however, legal specialists pointed out that defense attorneys are obligated to mount a vigorous defense regardless of their own opinion of the client's guilt or innocence.

I thought this source article in particular was an interesting read. IDK if there is a way to tag people in posts but I would love to hear from Swirlz if this changes their opinion as someone who watched the proceedings (I did not).

As far as this old Pat Brown article goes, very neat how on the mark it was about the dna evidence being questionable, though I don’t totally trust her given she seems to be really hung up on the “certain” guilt of the McCann girl’s parents...but haven’t we recently gotten a credible suspect for that? I’m not very informed on that case but I thought I saw an update. Anyway.

About the email with John and the Choose Your Own Adventure lead. I’m with fr brown: the tracing idea is ludicrous and can be dismissed. However, I don’t totally get the vibe she actually believes it. She mentions that she thought it was odd that John didn’t latch onto her idea like most other parents who are desperately willing to look into any theory or possible lead would. My first thought, actually, was that she was testing him, and his silence was a failing grade. However, I may just be giving her too much credit.

 

[Swirlz]

Thanks for the link to a source. I had actually looked for one but wasn't successful. O.k., I bolded the parts that make me hesitate.

"When the trial was over, the media, quoting unnamed police sources, reported that Westerfield's lawyers were just minutes away from negotiating a plea bargain when a group of private citizen searchers organized by the Laura Recovery Center found Danielle's body. According to these reports, under the deal Westerfield would have taken police to the site where her body was located, in exchange for a sentence of life without parole.[39] Both the prosecution and the defense declined to comment on these reports."

 

[fr brown]

Thanks for the link to a source. I had actually looked for one but wasn't successful. O.k., I bolded the parts that make me hesitate.

"When the trial was over, the media, quoting unnamed police sources, reported that Westerfield's lawyers were just minutes away from negotiating a plea bargain when a group of private citizen searchers organized by the Laura Recovery Center found Danielle's body. According to these reports, under the deal Westerfield would have taken police to the site where her body was located, in exchange for a sentence of life without parole.[39] Both the prosecution and the defense declined to comment on these reports."

The wikipedia article talks about the blood evidence found in his RV and on the clothes he took to the dry cleaners. As I recall her fingerprint was on the headboard of the bed in his RV. It seems like the physical evidence is overwhelming.

 

[fr brown]

....About the email with John and the Choose Your Own Adventure lead. I’m with fr brown: the tracing idea is ludicrous and can be dismissed. However, I don’t totally get the vibe she actually believes it. She mentions that she thought it was odd that John didn’t latch onto her idea like most other parents who are desperately willing to look into any theory or possible lead would. My first thought, actually, was that she was testing him, and his silence was a failing grade. However, I may just be giving her too much credit.

That's the problem. She doesn't really believe it and she obviously never tested it. She just used it to get on tv. She went on somebody's program touting it.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I can't remember the name of it but a book came out after she was murdered and Westerfield found guilty. But I do recall that supposedly when they first put him in the interrogation room he said something about the detectives could leave one of their guns on the table, and that he was just minutes away from telling where they could find her. He blood, anon with a palm print was found in the Westerfield's RV.

I like Murderpedia better that Wikipedia


David Westerfield | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

 

[Swirlz]

O.k., like I said, I knew I was going to be reamed. Danielle Van Dam had been to Westerfield's house with her mother shortly before she went missing. I can't remember the time-frame exactly but it was something like a day or two before and at the time she had a recent cut on her hand from where her dog nipped her and Westerfield packed his camper for a trip sometime between the day Danielle and her mother and brothers visited and Danielle going missing which could've caused the transfer.

I wouldn't say this if I hadn't watched the trial but something seemed really off about in particular Damon Van Dam (the father). He admitted disposing of marijuana before the police got there and at first, didn't tell investigators he and his wife had been smoking pot with friends in the garage earlier that night. And I thought it was hard to believe that what he's worried about after having woken up and finding his child missing is possibly getting a citation for possessing some pot.

There was some other weird stuff including, like I said before, people the parents didn't know well routinely coming in out and that Westerfield who had never been to their house before was able to figure out where in the house Danielle was and remove her without either the dog barking or anyone waking up.

 

[fr brown]

That's the problem. She doesn't really believe it and she obviously never tested it. She just used it to get on tv. She went on somebody's program touting it.

To beat a dead horse, the font in my "Choose Your Own Adventure" book is a serifed font, typical of book texts. The ransom note is sans-serif, though there might be a doodad here and there. My point is that no one would look at a CYOA book and say "That's the exact same font as the ransom note!"

And of course the ransom note doesn't look like anything other than itself.

 

[Debrazgalaxy]

I always suspected the son did it and having already lost their daughter, the Ramsey's or at least Patsy was determined to not lose their remaining child.

I thought this the very first time I heard it on the news. As time progressed- it seemed to me to prove that it was a brother- it is the ONLY explanation that matches neither parent giving up any information and not finding the evidence of a different killer. Protecting their child.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I can't give you a source at the moment but iirc reporting near the time of the trial claimed that Westerfield revealed the location of the body to his lawyer who then used that information as a bargaining chip with the prosecution.

You are 100 percent correct. Westerfield was totally guilty of kidnapping, raping, and murdering little Danielle.

The DA had agreed to take the death penalty off the table if he would give up the location where he had discarded her little body.

Westerfield's lawyer, Steve Feldman... was on his way to meet with the DA with a map in his possession Westerfield had given him marking the spot where he threw her away like trash.

Thank God the searchers finally located DVM on their own shortly before the deal was to be done.

The plea deal was no longer relevant since her body had been found without his map, and the death penalty was back on, and given by DWs jury.

There isn't even a BARD threshold in his case, imo.

It was proven beyond all doubt he was the guilty pedophile monster of DVD.

And as I said earlier not one tiny bit of trace evidence was found in her home belonging to him. Yet before then he had never stepped foot in her home. She went to his door selling girl scout cookies. She did not go inside his home.

Imo, that is when he targeted precious Danielle as his prey.

Jmho

 

[fr brown]

You are 100 percent correct. Westerfield was totally guilty of kidnapping, raping, and murdering little Danielle.

The DA had agreed to take the death penalty off the table if he would give up the location where he had discarded her little body.

Westerfield's lawyer, Steve Feldman... was on his way to meet with the DA with a map in his possession Westerfield had given him marking the spot where he threw her away like trash.

Thank God the searchers finally located DVM on their own shortly before the deal was to be done.

The plea deal was no longer relevant since her body had been found without his map, and the death penalty was back on, and given by DWs jury.

There isn't even a BARD threshold in his case, imo.

It was proven beyond all doubt he was the guilty pedophile monster of DVD.

And as I said earlier not one tiny bit of trace evidence was found in her home belonging to him. Yet before then he had never stepped foot in her home. She went to his door selling girl scout cookies. She did not go inside his home.

Imo, that is when he targeted precious Danielle as his prey.

Jmho

It does seem extremely bold for a first crime, but I don't think LE ever linked Westerfield to any others.

 

[Swirlz]

She did not go inside his home.

I didn't mean to start a whole big off-topic thing about the Westerfield case but I did watch the trial on CourtTV and I specifically remember that Danielle Van Dam, her mother and both of Danielle's brothers entered Westerfield's residence together and that Danielle's mother and Westerfield talked inside his house for several minutes. If I'm remember correctly, Mrs. Van Dam and Westerfield had seen each other before and were already somewhat familiar with each other and everyone kind of hung out on the 1st floor and chatted briefly. Danielle's mother testified to this.

I don't usually go around standing up for convicted child killers. This is something that got stuck in my brain.

 

[icedtea4me]

I didn't mean to start a whole big off-topic thing about the Westerfield case but I did watch the trial on CourtTV and I specifically remember that Danielle Van Dam, her mother and both of Danielle's brothers entered Westerfield's residence together and that Danielle's mother and Westerfield talked inside his house for several minutes. If I'm remember correctly, Mrs. Van Dam and Westerfield had seen each other before and were already somewhat familiar with each other and everyone kind of hung out on the 1st floor and chatted briefly. Danielle's mother testified to this.

I don't usually go around standing up for convicted child killers. This is something that got stuck in my brain.

DuLaney said she and other criminalists found blond hair similar to Danielle's in the RV. One strand was on the bedroom carpet near where police found Danielle's handprint, DuLaney said. Others were plucked from RV's sink and pillow cases and still others from Westerfield's bedroom, laundry and trash.

Danielle had a haircut six days before her abduction, and DuLaney said none of the hairs she saw was longer than 22 centimeters -- the length after her haircut.

This testimony may prove crucial in the case. Westerfield's lawyers have suggested that Danielle may have played in the RV on a previous occasion, but witnesses say the RV was not in the neighborhood for weeks before the abduction.

CNN.com - Criminalist: Fibers in RV similar to those in van Dam home - June 25, 2002

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I didn't mean to start a whole big off-topic thing about the Westerfield case but I did watch the trial on CourtTV and I specifically remember that Danielle Van Dam, her mother and both of Danielle's brothers entered Westerfield's residence together and that Danielle's mother and Westerfield talked inside his house for several minutes. If I'm remember correctly, Mrs. Van Dam and Westerfield had seen each other before and were already somewhat familiar with each other and everyone kind of hung out on the 1st floor and chatted briefly. Danielle's mother testified to this.

I don't usually go around standing up for convicted child killers. This is something that got stuck in my brain.

I understand, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Imo, that case was proven far beyond any reasonable doubt. That is why he sits on DR today, and his appeals haven't gone anywhere nor will they, imo.

Of course this happened in CA so he won't be executed, but he will rot away on DR where he belongs.

If he hadn't been caught he would have continued. Iirc one of his family members said he possibly molested one of his own young family members. I believe it was his sister's little girl.

Many pedophiles will start out molesting within their own family before branching out.

Unfortunately when pedophiles kidnap, rape, and murder there will always be a first time, and first little dead victim.

Even if she went inside of his home one time when selling cookies door to door... DW never entered her's until the fateful night he went in their home in complete darkness, went up the stairs, found her room, and then carried her out of her home undetected.

What truly irked me the most about that case was his sleazy attorney, Steve Feldman. SF already knew he was guilty as the unforgivable sins he perpetrated against the totally innocent child he murdered. He knew before the trial even started he was in possession of a map drawn by DW himself marking the spot he discarded DVD.

Yet he tried his best to convince DWs jury the VDs were involved or someone they knew knowing all too well it was all bald face lies.

Thank goodness the jury saw through all of SFs BS, and looked at the evidence instead to render the correct verdict both in the guilt, and sentencing phase.

However I do not recall either VD parent ever hanging out with this predator. I do remember that was pushed on social media without any evidence to support it.

I also remember how the VDs were vilified by the internet masses even though they had nothing to do with what happened to their precious daughter. Sadly they weren't the only parents who have had to endure being tried, and convicted by SM.

Jmho

 

[Swirlz]

Iirc one of his family members said he possibly molested one of his own young family members. I believe it was his sister's little girl.

The little girl told her mother he'd touched her teeth. The mom went and talked to him about it and he said he'd looked in on her and his daughter who were sharing a bedroom that night and that nothing happened. The mom was fine with his explanation and that was the end of it. His niece who was a young adult by the time of the trial testified to having a vague childhood memory of him taping at her teeth while she was at a sleepover with his daughter.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The little girl told her mother he'd touched her teeth. The mom went and talked to him about it and he said he'd looked in on her and his daughter who were sharing a bedroom that night and that nothing happened. The mom was fine with his explanation and that was the end of it. His niece who was a young adult by the time of the trial testified to having a vague childhood memory of him taping at her teeth while she was at a sleepover with his daughter.

If true how replusive, and gross. WTH was he even doing being in the room to begin with? Tapping her teeth? The image of that in my mind is enough to make me gag as a survivor of childhood abuse myself. Iirc the family member said he was standing by her bed fondling himself. PUKE!

It shows he was a total perverted creep long before he preyed on defenseless Danielle.

Iirc they also found kiddie *advertiser censored* on his computer, and just like most raging narcissists always do he tried to throw his own son under the bus which didn't work either.

Anyway, I'm not going to discuss this disgusting pedophile murder case any longer for there is no need.

DW is on DR so he won't ever be able to harm another precious child. What matters to me is Danielle, and her family received justice, and her offender is where he belongs.

I only mentioned that brutal horrific case because he left no trace of himself when he came into Danielle's home, and kidnapped her in order to rape her. Then he silenced her by murdering her so she wouldn't ever be able to tell anyone who he was, and what he made her endure.

Only around 65 percent of cases are solved due to the offenders leaving no evidence of themselves at the crime scenes or their DNA profile isn't in CODIS.

I'm just so thankful for the searchers who found her little discarded body BEFORE SF had a chance to bring DWs handdrawn map to the DA marking the spot, and location where he threw her away like she had no human value.

Jmhoo

 

[Swirlz]

If true how replusive, and gross. WTH was he even doing being in the room to begin with? Tapping her teeth? The image of that in my mind is enough to make me gag as a survivor of childhood abuse myself. Iirc the family member said he was standing by her bed fondling himself. PUKE!

He was in the room to check on his daughter who was sleeping there also. He told the other little girl's mother he didn't touch anyone's teeth and the mom believed him. No one said he was fondling himself.

Iirc they also found kiddie *advertiser censored* on his computer, and just like most raging narcissists always do he tried to throw his own son under the bus which didn't work either.

It was a shared computer. The son was 18. The *advertiser censored* wasn't prepubescent children. The *advertiser censored* allegations involved underage teenagers.

I only mentioned that brutal horrific case because he left no trace of himself when he came into Danielle's home, and kidnapped her in order to rape her.

Right and I only mentioned that I don't think that is necessarily what happened there because I've seen the Van Dam case referred to before in discussions about the Ramsey case and it supposedly being possible for an intruder to just kind of lurk around a house they've never been in before without anyone waking up or the dog barking and without leaving any physical trace of themselves. I totally hadn't meant to start a separate war over this.

Then he silenced her by murdering her so she wouldn't ever be able to tell anyone who he was, and what he made her endure.

I think some version of this is what happened to JonBenet but that the perpetrator was a member of her household.

 

[Nikolai_ff]

Pat Brown thinks the McCanns brought their kidnapped daughter back to the UK in a suitcase. She’s a deranged yenta.

 

[fr brown]

Pat Brown thinks the McCanns brought their kidnapped daughter back to the UK in a suitcase.

For sentimental reasons? Because it would put these two heavily scrutinized people in enormous jeopardy.

Then there's the yech factor.

Absolutely weird.

 

[Kell1]

Focus in this case, needed to be put on who was in that house legitimately that night. Unfortunately the investigation was tainted early, and may never be unraveled.

With all due respect for those who were involved, way too many "what ifs" have occurred since then that only strengthen the true responsible party's ability to escape justice

 

[UKGuy]

Focus in this case, needed to be put on who was in that house legitimately that night. Unfortunately the investigation was tainted early, and may never be unraveled.

With all due respect for those who were involved, way too many "what ifs" have occurred since then that only strengthen the true responsible party's ability to escape justice

Kell1,

Focus in this case, needed to be put on who was in that house legitimately that night. Unfortunately the investigation was tainted early, and may never be unraveled.

That's the case in a nutshell. So there are really only three suspects and we know all three colluded postmortem.

Can we rule out a family conspiracy or was it one person who assaulted JonBenet the others assisting with the staging?

Was the crime-scene deliberately tainted early on, did the parents get advice over the phone on how to proceed, John Ramsey lost his new shiny cellphone just prior to Christmas Day according to Patsy, convenient, huh?

Then there are the investigators, was it just Luck Of The Draw because it was Christmas vacation or was Steve Thomas appointed lead investigator despite having no homicide case experience, previously he worked Drug cases, to dumb down the investigative angle?

Basically did someone phone Hunter up front and outline a strategy for minimising any chance of the case appearing in a public court?

Hunter's behavior since has been questionable, right down to calling a GJ and then deciding not to file the True Bills, despite a Legal Procedure being available for dealing with a DA not wishing to proceed, so what does Hunter have to hide?

So is the JonBenet case one of incompetence or a conspiracy bankrolled by a millionare?