Patsys Clothes?

[Ames]

This is the one thing that really gets me.

If I woke up to find my youngest child gone and a ransom note telling me the kidnapper is watching my house and will kill her (behead her, no less) if I so much as speak to a stray dog, there is absolutely no way possible that any of my other children would be leaving my presence.

They not only called 911 and failed to mention the threat to their daughter's life...they called over four other people, despite the death threats...and then felt so comfortable with the situation that they sent their other child out of the house - not knowing who the kidnapper is, or where he is, or if he'll be able to kidnap Burke as well as JonBenet and kill one or both of them.

There is no way to mistake or misinterpret the threat in the RN. They knew their daughter's life was being threatened. They knew the kidnapper was watching their house. They didn't even request a police escort.

Either they knew there was no threat to JonBenet's and/or Burke's lives, or they don't care if either or both of their children are killed.

And is absolutely no way I would EVER leave my door unlocked after some intruder entered my house while I slept and murdered one of my children. I would have the best security system I could get, probably also a big dog on watch at all times.

This is one of the things that has bothered me too, about this case. That is one of the many reasons that I believe that they are guilty. Why call over all of those people? Wasn't JB's pediatrician one of the ones that was called? That's what I have read..., and if its true, WHY on earth would HE, of all people, need to be called? That also tells me, if true...that he was really close to the Ramsey's, and gives him even more of a reason to lie about JB's dr's visits. He knows more than he is saying....I believe. But, I guess that Patsy thought that she would make a big show of it, thats why all of the people were invited over. I know that she didn't read all of the ransom note (she didn't need to, IMO...because SHE is the one that wrote it), and didn't know about the threat to JB's head, if they so much as talked to a stray dog, but John was reading it as she made the call (or so they SAY.) Why didn't he yell to her and tell her to tell the 911 operator to tell the cops to be very discreet, park on another road and walk up...or WHATEVER. But, there was absolutely nothing said to the 911 operator about the threats. I find that ODD!! They obviously didn't think that part of it through, or Patsy wouldn't have invited people over, like it was some sort of a party. I believe that Patsy already knew that JB was dead, because she flung herself on the body (to explain away the fibers...IMO), and gave that speech about Lazarus....which I believe was rehearsed, or at least she already knew in her mind what she was going to say, when the body was brought up, and what her actions were going to be. Another poster said that if that had of been HER child, they would have had to pry her away from the body....and I agree with that!!! But Patsy...what does she do? She leaves the house with her husband, with her baby's body still inside. Does anyone know if any family members accompanied the body to the morgue?? I heard that nobody did...if true, I think that in itself points to their guilt!!

 

[Show Me]

No Ames John was making plans to fly his family to Atlanta on his private plane only 2 hours after JonBenet's body was discovered.....okay to leave Burke go off with only Fleet and Priscilla to guard him against monitoring murderous kidnappers....but when JonBenet's body was discovered....time for John and Patsy to high tail it out of town.

Course the cops told John he needed to stick around for a while....like to answer questions.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I have no idea who called Dr Beuf, but he was there at the Fernies' house, administering anti-anxiety meds like Pez. That seems rather strange to me - I know the Rs and the Beufs went to the same church, but the idea that they were so chummy that Beuf would drop whatever plans he had to go spoonfeed Valium to Patsy leads me to believe he would have covered up anything that would have made them all look bad - such as ignoring the signs of sexual abuse in a small child and hiding the medical records in a security box.

I think Patsy intentionally invited all those people over to confuse the scene and provide a buffer between the Rs and the police. Barbara Fernie and Priscilla White flanked Patsy during the time in the sunroom, and had to pull her down the hall to the Christmas tree when JR brought up JonBenet's body.

I don't understand that either, unless Patsy already knew JB was dead and didn't want to have to face the body (again.) If my child had been missing and my spouse came up the steps calling "I found her!", I'd be pushing everyone else out of the way to get to my child and yes, you'd have to pull me off her body. I would have sat with her until they took her to the morgue, and even then, I'd still want to go along. None of the Rs accompanied JonBenet to the morgue - she had to make that final trip all by herself.

I think the Lazarus speech was planned. I think Patsy thought her piousness and desperation would be thought of as sincere. Too bad she didn't realize the call to invite people over despite death threats and sending Burke off to go to the Whites already belied the situation.

Why didn't they just have Burke go upstairs and do something else for a while, if they wanted him out of the thick of the situation? There were enough rooms in that house and enough other people there that someone could have sat with him away from the commotion. I think they wanted him out of the house when his baby sister's body was finally found.

The Rs had a police escort take them to the Fernies when they were told to clear out of the hellhole - apparently they thought the threat was still dire even though the kidnapped child had been found dead...makes me wonder why the Rs didn't think Burke going elsewhere didn't also deserve a police escort.

JR's official reason for trying to jet out of Boulder right away was "something came up." That's right, Johnny, your daughter's body came up from the basement.

He managed to dodge pesky police asking questions by having legal counsel in place by 7 p.m. that evening, which I believe was before JonBenet's body even left the hellhole.

 

[Ames]

No Ames John was making plans to fly his family to Atlanta on his private plane only 2 hours after JonBenet's body was discovered.....okay to leave Burke go off with only Fleet and Priscilla to guard him against monitoring murderous kidnappers....but when JonBenet's body was discovered....time for John and Patsy to high tail it out of town.

Course the cops told John he needed to stick around for a while....like to answer questions.

Thanks, I thought that I had remembered reading that somewhere...that nobody within the family, accompanied JB's body to the morgue. So it IS true! I wonder if the investigators thought that was weird? See, that just in itself makes me know that they are guilty.

 

[Ames]

I have no idea who called Dr Beuf, but he was there at the Fernies' house, administering anti-anxiety meds like Pez. That seems rather strange to me - I know the Rs and the Beufs went to the same church, but the idea that they were so chummy that Beuf would drop whatever plans he had to go spoonfeed Valium to Patsy leads me to believe he would have covered up anything that would have made them all look bad - such as ignoring the signs of sexual abuse in a small child and hiding the medical records in a security box.

I believe that Dr Beuf has many, many secrets.

I think Patsy intentionally invited all those people over to confuse the scene and provide a buffer between the Rs and the police. Barbara Fernie and Priscilla White flanked Patsy during the time in the sunroom, and had to pull her down the hall to the Christmas tree when JR brought up JonBenet's body.

I agree with you, she was trying to contaminate and confuse the scene, and trying to provide a buffer. Patsy's butt stayed glued to the couch, the whole time. Not even when Fleet yelled for somebody to call 911, did she budge. When John yelled "I found her"...she did not budge. She (if she was innocent, which she isn't), wouldn't have known at that time if JB was dead, or if she was seriously hurt. So why didn't she jump up an RUN not walk to find out what was wrong with her baby?? Her actions speak volumns to me .

I don't understand that either, unless Patsy already knew JB was dead and didn't want to have to face the body (again.) If my child had been missing and my spouse came up the steps calling "I found her!", I'd be pushing everyone else out of the way to get to my child and yes, you'd have to pull me off her body. I would have sat with her until they took her to the morgue, and even then, I'd still want to go along. None of the Rs accompanied JonBenet to the morgue - she had to make that final trip all by herself.

Again, as I stated above, her actions were strange. That is the ONLY reason that I can think of that she wouldn't have been pushing everyone out of the way to get to her baby. She KNEW that she was dead, and why would she ASSUME that JB was dead, when John yelled..."I found her", unless she already KNEW that (she was dead). JB could have been seriously hurt...but NOT dead...for all she knew (if she were innocent, that is.) I agree with you, first of all, they would have had to pry me off of my dead child's body, and then I wouldn't want to leave her side, and THEN they would have to kill me to keep me for accompaning her body to the morgue, because I wouldn't want to leave her, or have her make that final trip all by herself (that just makes me cry when I think about it!)

I think the Lazarus speech was planned. I think Patsy thought her piousness and desperation would be thought of as sincere. Too bad she didn't realize the call to invite people over despite death threats and sending Burke off to go to the Whites already belied the situation.

Me too. She knew all along what she was going to say. She probably had been going over it in her head, all night long.

Why didn't they just have Burke go upstairs and do something else for a while, if they wanted him out of the thick of the situation? There were enough rooms in that house and enough other people there that someone could have sat with him away from the commotion. I think they wanted him out of the house when his baby sister's body was finally found.

I agree with you on this too. They didn't want him to see his baby sister's dead body.

The Rs had a police escort take them to the Fernies when they were told to clear out of the hellhole - apparently they thought the threat was still dire even though the kidnapped child had been found dead...makes me wonder why the Rs didn't think Burke going elsewhere didn't also deserve a police escort.

I guess that they didn't think of EVERYTHING, because thats just another thing that points to their guilt. Either they didn't care about Burke, as much as their ownselves, OR they knew that there was never a kidnapper (which IMO is the case here).

JR's official reason for trying to jet out of Boulder right away was "something came up." That's right, Johnny, your daughter's body came up from the basement.

"Something came up"? I have never heard that before. Geez....his daughter is dead, and he wants to leave Boulder, because "something came up"? WOW.....doesn't sound anything like what an innocent person would say, and leaving Boulder doesn't sound like something an innocent person would want to do...now does it?

He managed to dodge pesky police asking questions by having legal counsel in place by 7 p.m. that evening, which I believe was before JonBenet's body even left the hellhole.

Something that only a GUILTY person would do, IMO.

 

[Eagle1]

We're still assuming Patsy called the friends over that morning, but such a big thing has been made of her still being in the previous night's clothes, were there any proofs, FRESH TIRE TRACKS in the light snow which had fallen before morning that they weren't all there the whole night with her, and all still in the same clothes? I may sound like I'm nitpicking but don't we think this would make a huge difference. It'd be hard to change our thinking after all this time, to at least keep an open mind to the possibility, I know.

Dr. B. KNOWS a lot, yes, I'll bet he does, and he's probably not the only one! JR was letting something go on that he shouldn't have, and was saying "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry." Maybe just being away too much?

Somebody more creative than I want to do some brainstorming about what it could have been?

 

[Ames]

We're still assuming Patsy called the friends over that morning, but such a big thing has been made of her still being in the previous night's clothes, were there any proofs, FRESH TIRE TRACKS in the light snow which had fallen before morning that they weren't all there the whole night with her, and all still in the same clothes? I may sound like I'm nitpicking but don't we think this would make a huge difference. It'd be hard to change our thinking after all this time, to at least keep an open mind to the possibility, I know.

Dr. B. KNOWS a lot, yes, I'll bet he does, and he's probably not the only one! JR was letting something go on that he shouldn't have, and was saying "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry." Maybe just being away too much?

Somebody more creative than I want to do some brainstorming about what it could have been?

The friends SAID that she called them over, and Patsy said that she called them over (after the note was found). So you are thinking that Patsy called her friends over that night, and they spent the night with Patsy and John, BEFORE she found the ransom note? That just doesn't make any sense, I am not quite sure that I understand what you are getting at. How would Patsy explain calling them over at night, before the note was found? That she just loves their company so much, that she thought that she would bring the party to HER house, after leaving the Whites?

 

[JMO8778]

I wouldn't doubt it, especially since it was pristine after supposedly panicking upon finding the note...



A fraud is a fraud.

Is anyone else insulted by the Ramseys acting like victims? Upsets me greatly.

Thanks.
Yes,it does.The real victims are the ones wrongly accused,and first and foremost,the murder victim is the ultimate victim ...JONBENET.
Not only that,it's that they seem to think everyone should just be a total idiot and beleive them,and they get angry when that doesn't happen.Do they really not understand the impressions they are giving??? ...that it's 'all about them'?Do they really think everyone is just supposed to take their stories at face value?We'd all have to have very low IQ's to do that,starting with that **ridiculous so-called 'ransom note'.** Then the pineapple,the fiber evidence,as well as the rest of their behavior(too much to go into right now).My word.

 

[JMO8778]

I think JonBenet was to have been dumped away from the house, dressed in her barbie-gown, apparently garroted and sexually assaulted.


.

That makes a lot of sense.Perhaps lack of time (from the staging and writing the note) didn't permit it in the end? The 911 call did come in rather late in accordance with what the R's prior plans were.

 

[JMO8778]

Oh my gosh, I totally agree with you. I couldn't believe that they actually left the house with JB's body still inside! If that was my child, they would for certain, have had to pry me away from her. I had never even thought about that before...but, that just adds another item to my list of why I think that the Ramsey's did it (I believe that Patsy did it, with John helping to stage the scene).

I've been in a missing person situation before(not a child),but that's how I know their behavior was wayyyyyyy off base ! It need not be a child to know that though,for I know my reactions would have been even more panicky if it had been!
No speculation is needed IMO...without a doubt,their behavior was wayy off base for a missing child ! (kidnapped by a small FF at that).I believe they would have been ripping and tearing that house apart looking for JB and for clues,going out and searching for her,etc.Instead,PR SITS in the sunroom,and JR answers the door cordially,and fails to do any further searching at that time,and it takes 7 hrs to find her body in their own home.Sorry,anyone who expects me to beleive that thinks they are talking to an idiot.
BTW, it is VERY hard to sit still when someone is missing ! I was pacing the floor,running around the house again and again and again,looking for clues or anything out of place! If someone had wanted to sedate me,I'd have said NO.I needed my senses to be sharp so I could help !
The R's were just way too PASSIVE,IMO.That's not saying they should have been doing such and so;I'm saying their behavior was just not beleivable.
JR is still too passive to this day...he would be angry and would be using his media time wisely to appeal to the public to help find the killer if he didn't know who it was.As far as JMK goes,I believe he would have said something like,'Ok,this guy isn't the it,but maybe we're getting closer.Please help us find the killer !"

 

[UKGuy]

That makes a lot of sense.Perhaps lack of time (from the staging and writing the note) didn't permit it in the end? The 911 call did come in rather late in accordance with what the R's prior plans were.

JMO8778,

Its possible that the failure to fully complete her redressing to include her barbie-nightgown, due to rigor-mortis having set in, was what held them back, either that or the redrafts of the ransom note, since the wine-cellar staging and the ransom note compliment each other.

Personally I think they ran out of time, they knew this, we know this, because they made the 911 call close to 6AM, any later and there would have been difficult questions as to why they were late for their flight etc.

If you consider some of the staging as logical elements then they are well thought out, they are not random or the result of panicked thought, they are intended to deceive and sow the seeds of doubt, to this end they largely succeeded.

One aspect of the staging which requires careful consideration is whether after arriving back from the Whites, someone in the Ramsey household sexually assaulted JonBenet, thereby causing her to bleed?

Or whether this was an aspect of a prior staging that was cleaned up to make way for an abduction scenario.

Even the Ramsey's understood, JonBenet visibly sexually assaulted could not be presented as the product of a terrorist abduction, the motives are incompatible!

So a prior sexual assault is a distinct possibility, and part of the motive lying behind her death?



.

 

[JMO8778]

Thanks, I thought that I had remembered reading that somewhere...that nobody within the family, accompanied JB's body to the morgue. So it IS true! I wonder if the investigators thought that was weird? See, that just in itself makes me know that they are guilty.

I'm sure they did.
It reminds me of when I purchased a house,and found out later the responses to the q's I'd asked the owner were all lies.What happens? The guy's WIFE calls me when he gets a letter from my attorney saying he was untruthful ! IF he had been in fact telling the truth,he would have been ANGRY and would have called me himself ! That's what would have happened if I'd said he was a liar and he wasn't...he would have been angry enough to pick up the phone and refute it himself ! Instead he hid behind his wife.
I think it's so imprt to look at what ppl DO,rather than what they *say.

 

[Ames]

The R's were just way too PASSIVE,IMO.That's not saying they should have been doing such and so;I'm saying their behavior was just not beleivable.
JR is still too passive to this day...he would be angry and would be using his media time wisely to appeal to the public to help find the killer if he didn't know who it was.As far as JMK goes,I believe he would have said something like,'Ok,this guy isn't the it,but maybe we're getting closer.Please help us find the killer !"

Passive? Yes, I totally agree. I shouldn't, but I compare the Ramsey's to OJ Simpson...promising to find Nicole's killer. Where was he the next day, on the GOLF COURSE....guess he thought that he would find the killer there. When all he had to do, was look in the mirror. Off subject...but, great comparison...IMO

 

[Ames]

I'm sure they did.
It reminds me of when I purchased a house,and found out later the responses to the q's I'd asked the owner were all lies.What happens? The guy's WIFE calls me when he gets a letter from my attorney saying he was untruthful ! IF he had been in fact telling the truth,he would have been ANGRY and would have called me himself ! That's what would have happened if I'd said he was a liar and he wasn't...he would have been angry enough to pick up the phone and refute it himself ! Instead he hid behind his wife.
I think it's so imprt to look at what ppl DO,rather than what they *say.

Oh yes..as the saying goes....ACTIONS speak louder than words....

 

[ANGRYWOLF]

I presume he could have been called by the Grand Jury..and put under oath..if he had lied there it would have been perjury.....I doubt he would have gone to jail for the Ramseys....plus he could have lost his medical license...so that accusation simply doesn't make sense..:bang:

 

[Show Me]

I presume he could have been called by the Grand Jury..and put under oath..if he had lied there it would have been perjury.....I doubt he would have gone to jail for the Ramseys....plus he could have lost his medical license...so that accusation simply doesn't make sense..:bang:

Or he was not called by the Grand Jury....or he never gave JonBenet an vagina exam with a spectrum (sp?) and never saw damage to her hymen.

So Angrywolf, what's YOUR theory of what happened that night?

 

[ANGRYWOLF]

One person ..on a board said I had "delayed stress syndrome"...:bang: ..after I told them about my own personal experiences...Some people handle adversity..at least externally..better than others...you would need to ask their close friends and other family members..how they reacted to Jon Benet's death in private..before you should make any judgements...Hrumpf..that's for sure...you guys and your judgements...:razz:

 

[ANGRYWOLF]

he'll be caught someday..probably for another crime he commits..and something about that crime will lead back to this case..If it does turn out to be somebody else..I wonder if any of you..who believe the Ramseys did it..will you ever apologize..and yes..if it is ever PROVEN..the Ramseys did it..I will say you guys were right all along.Any takers ?

 

[lannie]

he'll be caught someday..probably for another crime he commits..and something about that crime will lead back to this case..If it does turn out to be somebody else..I wonder if any of you..who believe the Ramseys did it..will you ever apologize..and yes..if it is ever PROVEN..the Ramseys did it..I will say you guys were right all along.Any takers ?:rolleyes:

I did hear ba ba Walters apologize ,for all of mankind, who ever thought PATS could of harmed that child,the night the Mark Karr story broke,just because Lacy & Tracy came came up with ,the crap from M Karr'S twisted mine to use to throw him under the KILLER bus, all kinds of Ram supporters crawled from under their rocks, Sue man Lin woods ,compleatly exhonerated them ,,in breathless tones of JOY!!& they were WRONG,, WRONG WRONG, but I have never heard one then apologize to anyone,, have you Angryman?? I mean angrydog ,sorry I mean angrywoff,

 

[Show Me]

I think it was an intruder... he'll be caught someday..probably for another crime he commits..and something about that crime will lead back to this case..If it does turn out to be somebody else..I wonder if any of you..who believe the Ramseys did it..will you ever apologize..and yes..if it is ever PROVEN..the Ramseys did it..I will say you guys were right all along.Any takers ?

And how did the intruder do it? Surely you must have some opinion since you don't like the RDI theory.

Was it a friend of John? How did the intruder enter? Why do you think the angry intruder killed an innocent little girl instead of the object of his hatred John?

Little more than intruder did it please.