Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #3

Discussion in 'Jerry Sandusky General Discussion threads' started by wfgodot, Nov 16, 2011.

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  1. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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    Please continue discussion here on the Penn State / Sandusky / Second Mile case.

    Links of interest:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153837"]Thread #1[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154517"]Thread #2[/ame]


    Case timeline (huffingtonpost.com)

    Grand jury presentment (.pdf)

    Who knew what about Jerry Sandusky? There were many missed chances to investigate as early as 1995 (pennlive.com)

    Also of interest: the case involving the disappearance
    of former Centre County DA Ray Gricar is here:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154352"]PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7[/ame]
     


  2. wfgodot

    wfgodot Former Member

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  3. Concerned Papa

    Concerned Papa New Member

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    There's those two words again:

    Paterno emotionless....bulletproof vests....That's stone cold, JoePa.
     
  4. MagnoliaMom

    MagnoliaMom Verified mental health therapist

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    http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/16/penn-state-names-david-joyner-acting-athletic-director/

     
  5. concentric

    concentric New Member

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    I wanted to comment on part of ThoughtFox's post in Thread #2, about the Dr. Drew program. Below is the portion where I bolded the part I wanted to post about:


    The psychiatrist on the show said she believed Sandusky was enough of a narcissist that he believes he can control the message, when really he is giving out too much information.
    ------------

    Why is it considered giving out too much information, instead of giving out information? Giving out "too much" information to me implies that the psychiatrist thought that perhaps he should have shut up, and protected himself legally. Whereas, giving out information, would imply that the psychiatrist felt he was letting his true nature out.

    Anyone have anything else to say about this: giving out too much information
     
  6. Emeralgem

    Emeralgem New Member

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    Seems NOW Penn State is making every effort to cover up the cover up..JMHO
     
  7. waltzingmatilda

    waltzingmatilda Verified Insider-Roy Moore

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    Good heavens!!! Is there any way to find out the race and socioeconomic status of the children served at second mile? I was reading on scout.com and there was alot of speculation that the victims were most likely AA. Then there was an article where a former player ? stated that (paraphrased) "I never saw Sandusky with athletic looking kids, I saw him with kids who appeared to be vulnerable."

    Are any of JS's adopted children AA? How many of the S family's foster children were AA?

    I can't help but wonder if the victim found dead in the following link was a second mile victim.

    http://loop21.com/content/other-penn-state-cover-death-threats-against-black-students

    My apologies in advance if anyone is offended by my speculative post as I realize racial issues are a sensitive subject. However, we are already discussing the most sensitive of subjects, child rape, and my questions are mounting about JS with each news article that I read.

    I taught at risk and inner city children for years in the public school system and there was nothing that made the boys happier than when I allowed them a football and free play during recess!

    Someone questioned on the last thread if JS had a 'type'. IMO, JS's type is the most vulnerable, most economically disadvantaged, children to prey upon.

    MOO

    wm
     
  8. concentric

    concentric New Member

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    ----------
    I wondered that myself--what was his "type" of prey? There's a photograph in either Thread #1 or Thread #2, that shows some of the children in the Second Mile program. There appeared to be a group of children from varying racial/ethnic backgrounds.

    I wonder what the ethnic/racial background was for the children Sandusky brought with him to the games, overnight stays, home visits, etc.?
     
  9. ScorpRising

    ScorpRising To thine ownself be true

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  10. ScorpRising

    ScorpRising To thine ownself be true

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    BBM

    I remember hearing it but don't have a link to back it up. Today work is getting in the way of sleuthing.
     
  11. MagnoliaMom

    MagnoliaMom Verified mental health therapist

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    http://abcnews.go.com/US/jerry-sandusky-interview-angers-mother-victim/story?id=14961765

    Sandusky can not give these victims back what he took away, their trust and innocence. He could step up and be a man for the first time in his life and affirm the truth.
     
  12. ecco

    ecco Member

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    About the race of the victims. I think someone said in the first thread (or maybe the second?) that all the victims who've come forward are slim and African American but they didn't say where they got their info from or anything else about it.
     
  13. Gin

    Gin Share a smile

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    I think the psychiatrist was saying that a narcissist would believe he was in total control of the message. He doesn't accurately interpret the consequences of letting out too much of his behavior, because he thinks whatever he does is A-OK. I don't think she was on his side legally, she just was observing behavior that is highly unusual...and very narcissistic.
     
  14. Concerned Papa

    Concerned Papa New Member

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    UT OH!!

    Oh well, so much for the new playpen:

    Good Catch!

    "Where'd that funding come from? I don't remember....." Riggghhtttt :rocker:
     
  15. MagnoliaMom

    MagnoliaMom Verified mental health therapist

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    I think it needs to be looked at. While it may not have been a victim, it could have been a witness, a threat to keep the silence, a relative to a victim, or totally unrelated. It needs to be looked at.

    I don't know how to link the document I found but you can google "[Abbreviated] History of Hate at Penn State" and find it. It is an interesting read.

     
  16. ThoughtFox

    ThoughtFox Expecting the Unexpected

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    I didn't phrase my post correctly because I was tired, I guess.

    Dr. Drew was the one who kept saying Sandusky shouldn't be talking on TV and his lawyer should make him shut up.

    He also worried that Sandusky might kill himself because now he has made himself look even more guilty as he waffled and almost couldn't deny his sexual attraction to boys in the Costas interview.

    The psychiatrist on the show said she thought Sandusky was too much of a Narcissist to kill himself, which is also why he keeps talking in an effort to control the situation.

    But I think both Dr. Drew and the psychiatrist agreed that Sandusky was talking because he really doesn't know what is normal or acceptable, and thinks he can talk his way out of this.
     
  17. ThoughtFox

    ThoughtFox Expecting the Unexpected

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    Dr. Drew transcript, November 15
    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1111/15/ddhln.01.html

    PINSKY: First of all, I don`t know why his attorney let him have that interview.

    (snip)

    PINSKY: There`s also a peculiar quality of what the interview that Bob was asking very hard questions. I mean, I personally wouldn`t ask those questions. And I would be afraid the guy would kill himself if I exposed - I`m fearful for this guy`s well-being, Sandusky, right now, frankly.

    (snip)

    PINSKY: Michelle, hold on a second. There`s one other thing, though, he`s also - whenever Bob Costas asks him how he feels, his response is, "Well, how do you think I feel?" It`s not how he feels. You see he`s avoiding because he doesn`t feel anything maybe or he only feels the way people, you know, real sociopaths will only put out what they think other people want.

    GOLLAND: Well, that`s what he is. And I have to say, I don`t know if he`s going to kill himself. Because there may be enough narcissism in him that, you know, narcissist don`t like to kill themselves, they just want to prove themselves right.

    PINSKY: Except - except when their narcissistic shield is truly ruptured.
     
  18. MagnoliaMom

    MagnoliaMom Verified mental health therapist

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    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/943050-penn-state-scandal-bowl-games-are-going-to-blacklist-the-lions-this-postseason

    They have the pox! Nobody wants it to rub off on them.
     
  19. LRinCA

    LRinCA New Member

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    Good morning. :)


    From thread #2
    I didn't mention this yesterday because I thought it might be too picayune but in the light of (a new) morning I decided to throw it into the mix.

    Yesterday, after hearing the words "horsing around" tossed around all day long in the news, I decided to look up the etymology of the phrase "horse around." As would be expected, most of the entries were in keeping with what Sandusky, his attorney, Paterno and (apparently) Schultz and Curley were trying to portray: to be active in a silly way (thefreedictionary.com); however, there is a darker meaning to the expression, as indicated in the book Watch your language! Mother Tongue and her Wayward Children (Robert M. Gorrell).

    From page 35: "To horse around often has sexual implications." http://books.google.com/books?id=dq...&resnum=1&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

    Also, from another site (see link below). There are four definitions/citations and the first three are sexual in nature.

    http://www.definition-of.com/horse around

    One reason I decided to bring this up today was based on what Mike Krzyzewski was quoted as having said in the NY Times blog about Paterno:

    "I think one thing you have to understand is that coach Paterno's 84 years old," Krzyzewski said, per Vin Bernstein of the New York Times. "I'm not saying that for an excuse or whatever. The cultures that he's been involved in both football - wise and socially, have been (seen?) immense changes and how social issues are handled in those generations are quite different. http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/14/krzyzewski-paterno-a-great-man-in-horrific-situation/

    Based on the above I looked for the meaning of "horse around" using 1940s as one of the search terms. One entry that came up was Cassell's Dictionary of Slang (Google books). Note the use of time periods in the definitions:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=5G...onepage&q="horse around" 1940s sexual&f=false

    I bring all this up for a couple of reasons. One being the use of doublespeak. I have wondered all along if this was Paterno's way of conveying an awful truth to Curley without coming out and using words such as sodomize, rape, molestation. If you look at the slang definition for the phrase throughout the years this becomes a distinct possibility (in my mind). Note: I am not excusing Paterno's actions in this matter on any level.

    Additionally, I wonder if the use of doublespeak in Sandusky's case isn't part of a splitting process, i.e.:

    It may be that child abusers, particularly those considered suitable for referral to a psychotherapy clinic, need to be seen to be leading normal lives in order to be in a position to carry out their acts, whether it be within the family or in social settings (for example as school-teachers, scoutmasters and so on). This may be facilitated by the extensive use of splitting — this is a mechanism whereby apparently contradictory attitudes can coexist. http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/179/6/482.full


    I guess one reason this case has caught my attention to the extent that it has is because my father was a head football coach. In fact, he was a head football coach born in the same year as Joe Paterno - 1926. As such, I have found myself looking at this situation through two different lenses - the first being my own, based on the social mores of the generation I'm a part of - and the second being a blurrier lens based on my observations over the years of a parent who was born the same year as Paterno and who spent many years in the same occupation. I have a feeling that's what Krzyzewski was getting at with his commentary about generational differences. He's more than a decade older than I am (and in the coaching profession) so he is probably even more acutely aware of it than I am.

    Again, none of that is an excuse for ignoring and/or sweeping such heinous acts under the blue and white rug of Penn State.
     
  20. waltzingmatilda

    waltzingmatilda Verified Insider-Roy Moore

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    I agree! If anyone is keeping a timeline, please include this info as it may or may not be relavent. It never hurts to document these events as they unfold. I'll add this link to the media thread.

    wm
     
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