Plane carrying 72 passengers and 9 crew has crashed in Colombia

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by gregjrichards, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. FindHG

    FindHG *

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    [video=youtube;3bbpTkFO_kc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bbpTkFO_kc[/video]
     


  2. emirates1957

    emirates1957 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Greg, wonderful to read your posts along with others. Do you have the transcript (being a bit lazy). Briefly heard one of our Engineers say that it descended rapidly from 20,000 FT to 10,000 FT. At work at the moment and have been off sick (so in catch up mode)....anything you can flick over would be fantastic or send a PM and I can get the guys to pick over it.
     
  3. FindHG

    FindHG *

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    [video=youtube;Z4ygRb52ivA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ygRb52ivA[/video]
     
  4. FindHG

    FindHG *

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    [video=youtube;HlPWo66UESI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlPWo66UESI[/video]

    I can't find it again, but saw somewhere on MSM that one of the players who survived had to have his leg amputated.
     
  5. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

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    Re BBM

    Not that I ever want to be in that situation but he brings up a great point that I have never heard before. If you know you are going down for sure I think I am going to start grabbing soft luggage bags from the overhead and surround myself with it as much as possible. Basically try to put myself in a cocoon of luggage.

    I am sure if there are others seated next to me they may not let me do that but I may be able to convince them that they need a cocoon too.

    Seems like a great idea though. I suspect the luggage the gentleman put down near his legs may have helped him survive.
     
  6. CARIIS

    CARIIS Spelling Bee Winner - Kindergarden!

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    When we look at the wreckge there is a whole segment that appears to have remained intact.

    I would venture to say that is where the survivors were. The only real thing that matters is throughout the accident sequence is are you in surivable space in terms of room.

    If you are luggage may soften some stuff- but would be basically non menaingful if you were located where there was total loss of structural integrity.

    just mo
     
  7. CARIIS

    CARIIS Spelling Bee Winner - Kindergarden!

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    He did I thought that was so awful
     
  8. CARIIS

    CARIIS Spelling Bee Winner - Kindergarden!

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    Hate to say this but I think this is gonna come out to be pilot error. Its the crews responsiblity to very clearly declare an emergency.

    Thus far it sounds as if they did not formally do so. They circled quite awhile before impact.

    The pilot owned the airline.
     
  9. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

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    Re BBM

    Hello Emirates. Sorry to meet again with another plane accident. We are glad your expertise can be queried again though.

    Was wondering if maybe they were getting electric failure from the lack of fuel shutting down the engines.

    If the engines started to stutter and fail then would all the instruments and electrical components shut off when engines dont run?

    Was wondering if maybe the electrical issue was related to the engines failing.
     
  10. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

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    Hello Cariis.,
    You are probably right. No matter how much luggage you surrounded yourself with if you were in the part of the plane that became just pieces then you and the luggage would end up in pieces.

    Thanks for bringing me back to reality. Although I think I would still try to put myself in a cocoon of luggage. Just to feel like it may work and give me hope on the way down.
     
  11. CARIIS

    CARIIS Spelling Bee Winner - Kindergarden!

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    Jets with swept back wings are amazing gliders. It looks , from wreckage, that the plane was in control at impact, so I would guess, it was less traumatic than a flat out stall which is a mortifing experience.

    I would venture to say that if they were not in mountains it might have had a better outcome.

    just mo

    oh come on media a jetliner a bus come on!!

    Kinda sounds like the engine that provides electrical flamed out early in the sequence resulting in the intial tranmission being about electronic issues.

    Why that did result in a declaration of emergency is somewhat baffling.

    Then I saw this from earlier post

    It has been reported that the pilot was told that another aircraft had asked for landing priority because of its own on board problems.
    The second aircraft was given permission to land while the jet carrying the Brazilian footballers was told to circle at 21,000ft, putting it third or fourth in line to land, according to local media.

    Rescuers had to hike for more than half an hour to reach the site.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...per-survivor-leg-amputated.html#ixzz4RYshAC3W
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


    BUT if declared he would not have remained 4th in cue down.



    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...per-survivor-leg-amputated.html#ixzz4RYrCvLY4
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
  12. gregjrichards

    gregjrichards Well-Known Member

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    Hi emirates1957 thanks for your reply I found this on the CNN website.

    Cockpit transcript

    "One of the crew members, his voice reflecting growing concern, sends an urgent message to air traffic controllers at the Colombian airport.

    "Miss, Lima-Mike-India 2933 it's in failure, uh, total... electrical and fuel [failure]."
    Less than 30 seconds later, the crew was back in touch with a frantic call for directions to line up for the approach to the runway.

    Pilot: Lima-Mike India... vectors! Vectors, miss! Vectors to the runway!
    But the jet's radar signal was lost, leaving the air traffic controller blindly directing the pilot to safety.

    Controller: Direction... turn left 010 and proceed to the Rio Negro localizer 1 mile ahead of the border. At the moment, you're located, correct, I'm confirming going left with direction 350.

    Pilot: Left 350.

    Controller: Yes, correct. You're at zero-point-one miles to the Rio Negro border. I don't have your altitude, Lima-Mike-India.

    Pilot: 9,000 feet, miss. Vectors, vectors!

    Controller: You're 8.2 miles to the runway. What's your altitude now?

    Silence

    The CNN Instagram page has drone video of the crash site which gives you an idea of how the plane crashed.

    Thanks CARIIS for your reply too.
     
  13. emirates1957

    emirates1957 Well-Known Member

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    Agree CARIIS....going down as pilot error. Never knew the Pilot owned the airline.
     
  14. emirates1957

    emirates1957 Well-Known Member

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    Much appreciated......I'll wait until some of the guys come through the crew room tomorrow and see what their opinion is. Thanks again.....and a SAFE and Merry Xmas as well.
     
  15. emirates1957

    emirates1957 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Hadfield.....I have trouble copying and pasting your the ones that come up the data. And what a shame to meet again, considering by the sounds of it could have been avoided.

    I could come up with a few answers however I could confirm they would be exact therefore I will leave it for the boys tomorrow. Bring on the questions.

    I also wonder whether the Captain called the cabin to 'BRACE' for an emergency. If so like the other gent who assumed the brace position perhaps more lives could have been saved.
     
  16. emirates1957

    emirates1957 Well-Known Member

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    Problem is with loose luggage unsecured is like a missile when met with impact. Better option maybe pillows albeit very thin.
     
  17. CARIIS

    CARIIS Spelling Bee Winner - Kindergarden!

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    I just heard the english translation of the last transmissions -- he was, actually, clearly making it known that he needed his bird on concrete.



    What the h#ll was ATC doing??

    Where I am getting confused is circling? Why wouls you circle if you are in a fuel staravation deal? It makes no sense.

    One would also think that a connection would have been made to the primary electrical source (engine # whatever) failing. One would know, I would ink , the reason for the flameout - fuel.

    Something is not "linear" here. They know what engine produces their primary source of electricity.

    It seems as if we are missing one important piece of information, but that Radar 24 thing clearly has them circling.

    I am going to try and find out how many hours they all had - if anyone comes across this would pls post TIA


    They will be able to determine if any engine was producing power at time of impact- depends on what is inside engine and if the turbine blades are damaged as it relates to spinning at impact.
     
  18. gregjrichards

    gregjrichards Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to ask your colleagues opinion.

    I forgot to add the link for the CNN cockpit transcript http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/30/americas/colombia-plane-crash-recordings/
     
  19. CARIIS

    CARIIS Spelling Bee Winner - Kindergarden!

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    Hi Hat,

    Yes very clearly !! The circling is driving me bonkers and I am already bonkers!!!
     
  20. CARIIS

    CARIIS Spelling Bee Winner - Kindergarden!

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    Ah ha- Greg this helped -- (got all of it !) maybe it was not circling in the traditional sense. Maybe He lost his nav equipment due to fuel starvation on the engine that provides primary electric.

    Missing the vectors is electricity ............... they are like specific points an aircraft must go over, and report when they do - so it seems the circling might be about trying, again, to hit vectors.

    So the circling might actually translate to "lost" as it relates to the runway - as opposed to circling as if by choice????

    Avianca Airlines co-pilot Juan Sebastian Upegui said he was listening to the radio as he watched the jet pass to the side of his plane "going downwards, fast as s---t," according to the recording.
    "We even saw the plane lights as it was going down," he said, recalling the crew member's cries: "'We now have total electrical failure! We now have total electrical failure! Coordinates to proceed to the runway!'"

    You have to have power to enter the coordinates.

    The ironies of it being an Avianca pilot
    are profound (more later) getting tired!!

    Throw in no clear direction from ATC, some weather and ......................

    Sky news
     

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