Plead Your Case *Discussion-Friendly Thread*

Discussion in 'Caylee Anthony 2 years old' started by jypsijemini, Nov 22, 2019.

  1. jypsijemini

    jypsijemini On Time Out

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    Plead your case.

    You can take one of three approaches:

    You are the prosecution. Tell us why you believe Casey Anthony is guilty and what evidence proves to you that she is guilty. Complete your verdict with the punishment you believe is fitting for her crimes.

    You are the defence. Explain why Casey Anthony is innocent and back up your claims with evidence that you'd use to exonerate her.

    You are neutral. You haven't been able to make your mind up yet because the evidence is telling you conflicting stories. Detail the reasons why she may be guilty as well as the factors which make you doubt her participation in the murder.

    You may ask fellow Sleuths to provide links and sources to substantiate their claims, however you are not required to do so. This is a discussion-friendly post.
     


  2. Swirlz

    Swirlz Well-Known Member

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    I am not infinitely knowledgeable about the Anthony case but I thought it had been revealed post-trial that Casey googled foolproof suffocation and that whoever did the search went in with Casey's password so it would pretty much have to have been Casey. I could be totally wrong about this but that is what someone on another forum told me and I looked it up and it looked like the story panned out.
     
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  3. jypsijemini

    jypsijemini On Time Out

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    I am the prosecution.

    The evidence I would use to prove her guilt to the court would be:

    Casey Anthony's web searches:
    On the day CMA was last seen at 2.51pm, a user who logged into Casey's password protected computer account searched for "foolproof suffocation" (original search was misspelt). It's also said that other searches were made from the home, including "chloroform", "how to make chloroform" and "neck breaking". Casey's mother CA (career nurse) claimed on the witness stand that the "chloroform" search was one she had conducted, and had misspelt "chlorophyll" when researching whether her dogs were ingesting too much chlorophyll from their bamboo plants as they were unusually lethargic. However, does this excuse the revelation that "how to make chloroform" was also one of the searches? Experts confirmed that this search or related links would not come up as suggested links when searching "chlorophyll". And what of the other searches: "neck breaking" and "foolproof suffocation"? And, "making weapons out of household products" and "self defence"?

    Casey fails to report CMA missing for 31 days:
    CMA was last seen leaving her family home by GA in the early afternoon of June 16, 2008. She was reported missing by her grandmother, CA on July 15th after numerous attempts to contact Casey Anthony. She finally found Casey at a friends house, convinced her to get into the car and together, they drove to a local police station. She was advised to return home and that she'd be met by the appropriate law enforcement for her area. Upon arriving home and finding no-one there to meet them, CA called 911 again and requested that her daughter Casey be arrested for failing to report her 2 year old daughter missing.

    During these 31 childless days, Casey exhibited some disturbing and strange behaviour. On the night of the 16th, Casey appeared in CCTV footage at a local Blockbuster with her boyfriend TL, but without CMA. She was seen at clubs and entered "hot body" competition just four days after her daughter disappeared. She ran out of fuel in her car and called her boyfriend TL, and together they made their way to the Anthony family home where they broke the lock to the shed and took GA's gas cans. When Casey returned to the family home the next day, she was confronted by GA about the missing gas cans. As he approached the boot (trunk) of her car, Casey is said to have run past him to retrieve the cans and shouted, "Here's your f***ing gas cans". Again, CMA was not seen in the car and was not accompanying her mother, Casey Anthony. Six days later, Casey Anthony's car is found abandoned and towed. Her purse and the baby seat are still in the car.

    Casey's tattoo artist confirms that on the 2nd of July, Casey had an appointment for a tattoo reading, "Bella Vita" (Beautiful Life). The artist testifies that Casey mentioned CMA and promised that she'd accompany her next time she made an appointment.

    30 days after Casey Anthony last stayed at her family home, GA and CA are contacted by the towing company requesting payment for Casey's vehicle impound and towing costs. The couple arrives and while CA remains in the office to complete paperwork and payment, GA is led out into the yard to collect the vehicle (which was registered in GA and CA's names). GA, a former police detective, testifies that a strong odour emanated from the trunk of the vehicle. He claims that all that was found were trash bags of rotting trash - which the employee threw over the back fence. This was later retrieved and scoured for evidence. Both GA and CA testify that the trunk had the unmistakable stench of a dead body, to which both GA and CA were familiar with through the course and nature of their respective careers. CA is famously known for mentioning this in the 911 call made on the night of July 15th: "It smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car!"

    Casey's heartless behaviour:
    On top of the tattoos, the partying and failing to report her daughter missing, Casey exhibited some alarming and shocking behaviour during her daughter's disappearance and during the investigation leading up to her trial.

    How she explained the whereabouts of CMA:
    Casey was asked by many people during those 31 days where Caylee was. CS called and texted regularly, asking for her granddaughter. Casey claimed that she was safe with the nanny, as well as accompanying Casey on work-business trips to Jacksonville. She claimed they were staying in hotels. She claimed that CMA was to attend events at Universal Studios. In her frustration, CA went by herself to Universal Studios to find CMA and Casey but when she arrived and contacted Casey, she was told that they weren't even there. Casey kept claiming that their departure from Jacksonville was repeatedly postponed - one of those occasions was to attend her friend's mother's wedding. Casey Anthony was never in Jacksonville. When friends asked about CMA, one of Casey's chosen explanations was "she's at the beach". During those 31 days, Casey never let on to anybody that CMA was indeed missing. However, Casey claims that June 16th was the last day she saw CMA. Therefore, all these explanations were indeed total and complete fabrications.

    Casey Anthony claims to be employed by Universal Studios:
    Casey told investigators that she told her co-workers about "Zanny the Nanny". They arrived at Universal Studios and quoted the names Casey had given them. Neither Casey, nor any of the names she'd given them were employees at Universal. In order to catch her out in her lie and to give her the chance to come clean, investigators took Casey to her supposed work place, where she skilfully manipulated the supervisor into letting her in, even though it had been established that Casey didn't work there anymore. They were unable to find the names she sited for her co-workers and supervisor either. Once given access, Casey led investigators through the hallways and waved at the employees who were said to have looked "perplexed and confused, as if they didn't recognise Casey at all". Once she reached the dead-end of the hallway, Casey turned around and admitted to the investigators that she didn't work there.

    A lavish lifestyle whilst unemployed:
    Casey hadn't held a job for more than two years since her position at Universal Studios. However, she maintained the lie and convinced her parents and friends that she continued her employment there as an "event planner". Somehow, despite her long-term unemployment, Casey was able to pay for tattoos, clothing and nights out on the town. How? It was later uncovered that Casey had been forging and cashing cheques from a friend's bank account.

    Casey's calls and visits whilst incarcerated:
    Police decided to tap Casey's first jailhouse phone call after she was arrested for child neglect early on in the investigation. During that first phone call, Casey claims that she's been arrested "on a whim" and expects sympathy and support from her mother. She doesn't get it. She becomes agitated and insists that she be given the number for her boyfriend, TL. The phone is handed to a family friend, who also stresses the need for Casey to cooperate with investigators. Casey again requests vehemently that she wants her boyfriend's number to call him instead.

    CA and GA later visit Casey in prison. They sit on the other side of the plexi-glass partition and use a handset to speak to their daughter. Both GA and CA are noticably emotional, expressing how much they'd love to hug her and using pet names such as "gorgeous" and "sweetie". When asked how she's doing, Casey responds, "I look like hell!". At this point, CMA still hasn't been found. She doesn't ask about CMA. "I want you to keep your spirits high... but we have to get that little girl back," GA says. There has been a lot of speculation surrounding whether GA was also involved in CMA's disappearance, or whether Casey told him the truth and he's been covering for her. The way that he distances himself from CMA by using "that little girl", rather than "your little girl" or "my granddaughter" is interesting, if not concerning. It's an odd word choice considering his direct and supposedly close relationship to CMA.

    CA takes back the phone from GA and reminds her that CA is regularly in front of the cameras, and asks Casey if there's anything she'd like her to say to Zanny and Caylee. Casey requests that in direct reference to Zanny, "I forgive her, my only concern is that Caylee comes back to us, she's smiling and she's happy and that she's okay". "Okay, what do you want me to tell Caylee?" This is one of the very rare times where Casey becomes emotional. "That Mommy loves her very much, and she's the most important thing in this entire world to me, and to be brave," she says, sniffling and wiping away tears. "Anything else?" CA asks. "Ugh, just that I love her. I truly, truly love that little girl and miss her so much." Again, my alarm bells ring at the description of "that" little girl instead of "my" little girl. Casey is her only parent. CMA is her only child, who is missing and feared dead. Why is she "that" little girl, as if she is someone else's child?

    Casey is asked by CA whether she is protecting their family. "Are you protecting CMA, are you protecting me or you're protecting who/you?" she asks. "I'm protecting my family, but not from anything that I've done," - what does Casey mean by this? Just the lying? Just the fraudulent cheques? The main topic of this whole conversation is CMA's disappearance - so is she loosely referring to this? "I'm going to write letters - individual letters to each of you and I'm going to send them through the mail - the jail mail," Casey explains. "I don't want to have to wait for the mail, Casey. Is somebody threatening us?" CA asks. Casey breaks down. She repeats the question. "Mom, just leave it at that please," Casey begs. She knows that the conversation is being monitored and recorded.

    CA asks her again if she has any messages she'd like relayed. Casey says she wants nothing more to do with TL, she's upset that he only went to see her once and that it took an intervention from an old high school friend of Casey's to initiate that contact. She's upset that he's not working with her legal team. "I'd like to reach out to him and talk to him, but at the same time, my main concern is you guys." Then CA asks her if she'd like to say anything to her ex, J. "How about J? He's been real close. Is there anything you want me to tell J?" Casey says, "I would like J to stay as far away from you guys as possible. I'm saying that wholeheartedly and as calmly as possible. I don't know how much I trust him right now and I even told L that. L's going to investigate a few people for me. In my gut, I don't know if I can trust him." "Well I've felt that in my gut all along," CA agrees. CA explains that J's family has been reaching out. "I appreciate that, coming from his family yes, that means a lot. As far as J as an individual, it's very questionable for me. Very, very questionable."

    CA asks about flight details found for a friend that were written in Casey's handwriting. She explains that this was because she had to pick A up from the airport. She continues, "And just like the breakfast menus that you found at the house? They were for me. I wanted to start getting up early and working out. It was all healthy stuff, was it not? If it had been for CMA, there would have been waffles listed, and mini pancakes and little things that she liked. I wouldn't have fed her a bagel with eggs-" CA cuts her off, "But she likes bagels with eggs and cream cheese..." "SO DO I," Casey stresses. "We're like the same little person. You know, she's almost my size anyway." Two things stand out to me here. Like the way she uses the term, "that little girl", here she says "little things that she liked." Why past tense? No one is apparently aware of CMA's fate yet, so how is she not using a present-tense term here like she should? She has done throughout most of the conversation, so why does she slip up here? And "I wouldn't have" - not just "wouldn't". The meaning changes when that one word is omitted. "I wouldn't feed her a bagel" - opposed to, "I wouldn't have fed her a bagel..." Maybe it was just because the topic was set in the past tense - "I wanted to get up at 5am and start working out... It was... If it had been..." but it understandably casts some suspicion over her claim that she doesn't know what happened to CMA.

    "I think that when CMA is found, you can tell everybody what you know and you'll be released," says CA. What's not being said here? Is there more that the family is aware of and trying to investigate that they're not sharing with police? "I don't know, possibly," Casey responds. "He's already got it set in his mind that I've done something." "Well, he thinks, he has it in his mind that you guys did something to CMA." Who else is CA referring to here? GA? ZGF? It seems as if no one else was named or interrogated as a suspect in the case. And later, the defence would base their case on the idea that CMA drowned in the family swimming pool and the death was covered up by GA and Casey.

    At multiple moments through the call, both GA and CA try to give Casey opportunities and leads to confess the truth to them. They both seem to have suspicion that Casey knows more than she's willing to admit. They try to approach it gently with her so as to not run the risk of upsetting her. But they keep alluding to the idea that she'd be able to come home much quicker if they just knew where CMA is. This may explain the above statement, "when CMA is found, you can tell everybody what you know...". Both GA and CA seem to have that instinct that their daughter is continuing to hide some element of the truth and that she probably knows more, if not exactly what happened to CMA. Their focus is predominantly on CMA (which is only echoed by Casey in her statements. She seems to mimic their concern rather than freely and spontaneously expressing her concern and worry) and secondly, on supporting Casey. They are doing all they can with what they have available to them and all that Casey is willing to share with them.

    "I can't even put into words how glad I am that she's had both of you - and that she still has both of you." Casey whimpers as she wipes away tears. Alarming. Concerning. Very unusual terminology, of which Casey noted quickly and corrected herself. "We're trying all we can to get the little girl back," GA reassures. THE little girl? Again, both Casey and GA are distancing themselves and using past-tense terminology when referring to a missing child.

    In a second video of a subsequent jail visit, a particularly cold exchange is recorded between CA and Casey:
    Her mother offers Casey the updated information, "Someone just said that C was dead this morning, that she drowned in the pool. That's the newest story out there." Casey's response? "Surprise, surprise" as she rolls her eyes. A tearful CA pleads with her, "We need - we need to have something to go on," and Casey sits bolt upright, stares down at the image of her mother on the screen and snaps, "Mom, I don't have anything to go on. I'm sorry. I've been here a month - I've been here a month today. Do you understand how I feel?! I mean, do you really understand how I feel in this? I'm completely, completely out of the loop with everything. The only information I get is when I see my attorney. That's it. And outside of that, I have nothing to go on. Everyday I just sit here and wait and wonder. Wonder if something's going on, wondering if there's something new."

    SOURCES:
    : ID Documentary, Part 1:

    Casey Anthony jailhouse visit from GA & CA:
    Second jailhouse visit from GA & CA:


    The physical evidence:

    The duct tape:
    Forensic experts were able to determine that the duct tape that was found on CMA's skull matched the same brand of duct tape that was found in the Anthony family's shed. Pieces of this duct tape were also found on the gas cans that Casey had 'stolen' from the family home during the first month that CMA was missing.
    The nature in which CMA's face had been taped up was heartbreaking and inconceivably cruel. Three pieces of duct tape had been used. After four months of decomposition, the duct tape had been so securely wrapped around the child's face that it held the jaw to the skull. There is no anatomical way that the jawbone could naturally stay connected to the skull after full decomposition. It was also noted that a large amount of the child's hair was stuck in the duct tape, despite the few remaining remnants of adhesive that lingered on the tape. It is argued that due to the large amount of tape used, it is very likely that the tape was used to cover both the child's nose and mouth, wrapped underneath the jaw and over her head. There is no plausible reason why duct tape would be used on a 2-year-old child's face, nose and mouth - other than in a deliberate attempt to suffocate her.

    The trunk of Casey's white Prelude Sunfire:
    "It smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car!" CA's 911 call on the night of July 15th would lead investigators to fully examine the white Prelude Sunfire owned by the Anthony's - and used regularly by Casey Anthony right up until it was abandoned the week of June 24th and towed on June 30th. Some speculated that the odour was the result of fermenting, rotting food in the trash bags initially discarded at the impound yard. However, former detective GA and his experienced nursing wife, CA both had experiences with dead bodies and could attest to the "unmistakable smell of death", and so could investigators. So they brought in a cadaver dog - who alerted handlers to the trunk of the Prelude Sunfire. Evidence is taken from the trunk including a sample of the stained carpet lining of the trunk and human hairs. Investigators scraped up as much as they could, noting that the trunk appeared to have been recently vacuumed.
    Samples from the trunk lining were tested using revolutionary new technology that can identify the chemicals present in the air that emanate from an air-tight container containing the sample of evidence. The Dr who invented and conducted this testing was able to take the stand for the prosecution and claimed that there was no other possible explanation as to why the proven scent of decomposition was present in the trunk of the car and the sample from the trunk, than for there to have been a dead body present in the trunk of the Prelude.
    The hairs from the trunk were also tested and results showed that the hair belonged to some maternal relative of CA, and due to the length of the hair and the fact that it was not treated (subjected to hair dye or other chemicals), it was accepted as having belonged to CMA. There was a dark band of discolouration at the root end of the hair, which has become known to forensic analysts as a 'decomposition band' that only forms when the subject's body is decomposing and the hair is rooted to the scalp.

    Chloroform:
    In analysing the evidence from the sample taken from the trunk, results also showed a "shockingly high, unusually high" concentration of chloroform, as testified by Dr V. While the production of chloroform is a natural part of the decomposition process, the findings were unexpectedly a lot higher than normal. The prosecution tied this in with police findings when sorting through the Anthony family's computer files and had found deleted web searches for "chloroform" and "how to make chloroform".

    The discovery of CMA's remains:
    December 11, 2008, almost six months to the day since CMA was last seen, her remains were discovered in a wooded area about a "quarter mile" from the Anthony family home. Her remains were found 20 yards from the side of the road, strewn among torn plastic black trash bags, a large canvas laundry bag, a muddied blanket and what was left of her clothes. Her remains had been there for so long, vines and roots had begun to entwine and wrap around her bones. They were able to see a faint depiction of Winnie The Pooh and Piglet on the baby blanket. It is said that the crime scene where CMA's remains were found spanned 4200ft and 12 inches of mud (as the area had been subject to flooding in the months since CMA's disappearance). Using the evidence found at the crime scene, investigators were able to match several items to similar items found in the Anthony family home. The canvas laundry bag had a matching twin bag that had been sold in pairs that was found in the home, missing its twin. The child's room had been Winnie The Pooh themed in its decorations and outfitting, which matched the blanket found at the scene.

    The slaughtering of the trial by the defence's opening statement:
    An accidental death, a cover up and an explanation for all the lies: GA found CMA's lifeless body floating in the family pool and helped Casey to cover it up. Casey was used to lying because she'd hidden years of sexual abuse at the hands of her own father since she was 8 years old. Neither of these claims were brought up at all by the defence during the trial. It was only during the closing statement that HB produced a photo of CMA standing at the rear sliding door of the Anthony home, overlooking the swimming pool that he claimed it was completely plausible that CMA had let herself out and got into the pool by herself, where she assumedly drowned. Being a murder case, there was no reason for him to prove his claims. Casey was not being charged with covering up the accidental drowning death of CMA. She was being tried for premeditated first degree murder, child abuse and neglect. She was found not guilty on all accounts, and charged only with misdemeanours for lying to police and obstructing the investigation. The defence also ripped GA apart on the stand, claiming that his suicide attempt in January 2009 was evidence enough that he was wracked with guilt over CMA's death and therefore, attempted to take his own life. As eerily noted by GA in the third instalment of the ID documentary, "It's always who can put on the best show. I hate to say that word, but HB did his job. He put on the best show. He got what he wanted. HB won."

    The testimony of Casey's boyfriend:
    "How would you describe her demeanour?" He's asked. "Happy. Having a grand old time."
    "At any time did she ever cry?" "No," he scoffs and shakes his head. "Did she act scared?" "Nope," he confidently replies. "Did she tell you that her daughter had gone missing?" the prosecution asks. "No." TL replies.

    In Conclusion:

    I believe that there is enough circumstantial, hard evidence to show:

    Casey's motive for killing her daughter was to return to her child-free lifestyle which consisted of money, shopping, tattoos, clubbing, spending time with her DJ boyfriend and seeing her friends. One witness claimed that she expressed her desire to "put the baby up for adoption" once she'd given birth. She was also described as a "good mother" which was admittedly evident in photos and witnesses' recollections of CMA's rapidly developing intelligence and general well-being. However, she had the regular input and assistance of her parents in helping to raise the child. We cannot be certain that CMA's education and development was purely the influence of her 22 year old mother.

    The method and manner of death was a combination of rendering the child unconscious using chloroform which then allowed Casey Anthony to apply duct tape to the child's face and head, resulting in the child painlessly suffocating to death in her sleep. I believe her death occurred on June 16th, 2008 between the hours of 3pm and 7pm, due to the last witness seeing CMA before he left to start work at 3pm, and Casey being placed at the Blockbuster Video store with TL just after 7pm that same night.

    The body was then wrapped in a blanket taken from CMA's bedroom in the Anthony family home and transported in Casey Anthony's white Prelude Sunfire for a number of days while it decomposed. The body was then removed from the trunk before it was abandoned due to the smell. Bags of trash were left in the car to mask the smell and explain away the smell of decomposition. The body was concealed in a laundry bag from the Anthony home as well as black trash bags. Never venturing far from home, Casey Anthony left the body just a quarter mile from her home, out of sight from the road and nearby residences, where it was found almost six months later.

    Sentencing:

    I would sentence Casey Marie Anthony to death - due to the lack of remorse, the failure to report her daughter's disappearance, the way she refused to cooperate with police, the way she deliberately lied to and misled the investigators and above all, for choosing to murder her 2 year old daughter instead of relinquishing all parental rights and giving full custody to her parents.
     
  4. GiantPickle

    GiantPickle Well-Known Member

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    fantastic post - and i agree with your assessment
     
  5. Jolynna

    Jolynna Well-Known Member

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    I agree with jypsijemini's outstanding case presentation. Really well done. Although, I would leave out "failure to report her daughter's disappearance" as a reason for a death sentence. Since Caylee didn't disappear, imo, it wasn't a crime for Casey to not report the non-event. I think the crime was that Casey DID tell law enforcement it [Caylee's "disappearance"] happened instead of reporting Caylee's death the day after Father's Day—nobody disputes that is when Caylee died.

    Kudo's to jypsijemini for the following. Especially the last statement.

    It was also noted that a large amount of the child's hair was stuck in the duct tape, despite the few remaining remnants of adhesive that lingered on the tape. It is argued that due to the large amount of tape used, it is very likely that the tape was used to cover both the child's nose and mouth, wrapped underneath the jaw and over her head. There is no plausible reason why duct tape would be used on a 2-year-old child's face, nose and mouth - other than in a deliberate attempt to suffocate her.
    I'm convinced by jypsijemi's rationale that Casey was the ONE who searched for "foolproof suffocation". That search combined with all the duct tape over Caylee's face and into her hair—as jypsijemini describedas well as how happily Casey "moved on" —was Caylee even gone an hour before Casey & Tony were videoed hand in hand in Blockbuster—imo, establish not only WHO DID IT, but that Caylee's death was deliberate & cruel <shudder>. That criteriadeliberate & cruelmeans Casey deserved a death sentence even if it's debateable whether or not a jury could do it to a young & attractive "mother".

     
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