Poli-chickens, or something worse?

[BBB167893]

we live in a crazy world filled with questionable events and anomalies. we have a history of events that absolutely could be supported with a conspiracy theory. to just dismiss conspiracy theories w/out properly investigating them is not really a search for truth is it?

No, I guess it isn't.

after all, that is what we all search for, correct? one most go through a process of elimination via a list of "possibilities" and a conspiracy theory can often times be on that list.

so on the list of possibilities about the behavior of those "investigating" this case, can a conspiracy theory be eliminated from that list? or does it deserve further thought and investigation? is anyone really willing to dismiss the fact that those in authority are capable of hiding truth or corroborating with others to hide truth if they so desire? I sure hope not, because that is not a realistic view of the world we live in, IMO.

I don't think your brother is so far off in left field that he does not make valid points. whether he is right or wrong, I don't know. but I would not dismiss the theory until it can be dismissed.

I agree. Like I said, he talks a good game with his theories, but they all have flaws. I haven't outright dismissed this one yet, but I'm flummoxed as to what AH and his partners could have been hiding, or how high it went.

 

[BBB167893]

When so many minds have worked on this case for so long, and no one has been able to resolve it once and for all, it's reasonable to suspect that key information is missing - information beyond the details of which R did what. IOW, if the case could be solved with what is known and can be inferred, it would have been by now. Also, evidence of a cover-up - and there's plenty - confirms that there's something to be covered up.

Beyond AH's bizarre decisions, teaming up with the defense, and deep-sixing of the GJ indictments, is there possible evidence of a conspiracy at higher levels? None of it unequivocal, but yes.

- The GJ indictments remained suppressed beyond Hunter's tenure. Why?

- Steve Thomas, Linda Arndt, and Sgt. Wickman (who discovered the ransom note pad) all received harrowing threats. Steve Thomas had a mangled cat left on his front lawn, Arndt had blood splashed on her house more than once, and Wickman was shot at through his window and nearly struck. Who had motive and means to take such extreme measures which, in Wickman's case, could have been deadly?

- The couple who ran Touch Tone (was that the name?) were in the business of buying and selling confidential information. The man pretended to be JR and called McGuckin's Hardware to get Patsy's purchase receipts allegedly for the tape and cord. Did they intend to sell the information? Or, were they being paid to get the information and, if so, by who?

Are there other "Hmm" items to add to the list?

Well, there's one conspiracy that's not a theory: the backroom dealings between the Haddon Law Firm and the Jefferson County District Attorney to railroad Tom Miller over a crime he didn't commit (and had already been dismissed by another DA) so he couldn't testify against Patsy if the case came to trial. We KNOW that's no theory, because one of the lawyers and the private investigator under him copped to it in open court.

 

[questfortrue]

No, I guess it isn't.



I agree. Like I said, he talks a good game with his theories, but they all have flaws. I haven't outright dismissed this one yet, but I'm flummoxed as to what AH and his partners could have been hiding, or how high it went.

If one can speculate a little on who may have pulled strings, or applied pressure my entry would be LM. LM in CO represents both power and money. So one has to consider whether JR had a higher up associate in corporate LM who would help. Well, my thoughts would involve questions about what some employees at Access Graphics pondered regarding JR’s mysterious disappearances. He wouldn’t even tell his secretary where he was going for several hours at a time. Then, of course, there is also the absence on Xmas Day for a couple hours when he told his family he was checking on the plane. I’m not particularly bright about this stuff, but it does sound like a ‘dalliance.’ One can wonder about it from there and who could have helped. Moo

 

[Meara]

Well, there's one conspiracy that's not a theory: the backroom dealings between the Haddon Law Firm and the Jefferson County District Attorney to railroad Tom Miller over a crime he didn't commit (and had already been dismissed by another DA) so he couldn't testify against Patsy if the case came to trial. We KNOW that's no theory, because one of the lawyers and the private investigator under him copped to it in open court.

Yes! Thank you, SD! Somebody was willing to have Tom Miller railroaded for the purpose of disqualifying him as a witness against Patsy, willing to risk Wickman's life, willing to have a cat mutilated, and to obtain enough fresh blood to splash on Arndt's door. Who? JR, or someone higher up, or a group of someones? That's feels beyond local, more like mob or spook stuff or deep politics. It's as though there's a hole in the middle of the case, something we can't see but know is there because of the number of people who danced around it.

 

[Meara]

If one can speculate a little on who may have pulled strings, or applied pressure my entry would be LM. LM in CO represents both power and money. So one has to consider whether JR had a higher up associate in corporate LM who would help. Well, my thoughts would involve questions about what some employees at Access Graphics pondered regarding JR’s mysterious disappearances. He wouldn’t even tell his secretary where he was going for several hours at a time. Then, of course, there is also the absence on Xmas Day for a couple hours when he told his family he was checking on the plane. I’m not particularly bright about this stuff, but it does sound like a ‘dalliance.’ One can wonder about it from there and who could have helped. Moo

This is an interesting line of thought. LM could have had a stake in this; JR was worth a lot of money and competitive edge to them. It's hard to imagine that they would go to great lengths to help JR cover an affair, though, if I'm reading you correctly. Maybe he was doing more than one thing covertly. I had forgotten the business about JR's disappearances. Where should I look to refresh my memory (book? Bonita papers?)? TIA.

 

[txsvicki]

I've never even heard about disappearances except for xmas day to check on the plane and disappearing into the attic to cry alone after his oldest daughter died.

 

[questfortrue]

This is an interesting line of thought. LM could have had a stake in this; JR was worth a lot of money and competitive edge to them. It's hard to imagine that they would go to great lengths to help JR cover an affair, though, if I'm reading you correctly. Maybe he was doing more than one thing covertly. I had forgotten the business about JR's disappearances. Where should I look to refresh my memory (book? Bonita papers?)? TIA.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear in my line of thinking. LM would have influence at a higher level of decision makers in CO. A close personal relationship of JR’s within the structure of LM might have helped him with triggering that influence. (Covering for an affair would not be a concern of LM.) Also, not for a minute do I believe LM was involved in such actions like was done to LA, ST and Det. W. That sounds more like some of the crazies involved with the case. No recollection of where I read about the specific reference to JR's lengthy unexplained absences. moo

 

[BBB167893]

If one can speculate a little on who may have pulled strings, or applied pressure my entry would be LM. LM in CO represents both power and money. So one has to consider whether JR had a higher up associate in corporate LM who would help. Well, my thoughts would involve questions about what some employees at Access Graphics pondered regarding JR’s mysterious disappearances. He wouldn’t even tell his secretary where he was going for several hours at a time. Then, of course, there is also the absence on Xmas Day for a couple hours when he told his family he was checking on the plane. I’m not particularly bright about this stuff, but it does sound like a ‘dalliance.’ One can wonder about it from there and who could have helped. Moo

For my money, I think it was more likely that AH didn't want a major source of employment and revenue for the area to be associated with the scandal of having one of it's big execs be exposed as a child-abusing killer/accomplice to killing. And that his hope was to quickly bury it. That didn't happen.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

If LM or other powerful people used their connections to get the R's special privileges, such as blocking phone records, would that come out at the trial? So maybe at first, LM (or whoever) helped John out because he was an executive, and they were just doing him a favor, but the company (or people) realized it wouldn't look good for them if it came out at trial?

 

[midwest mama]

For my money, I think it was more likely that AH didn't want a major source of employment and revenue for the area to be associated with the scandal of having one of it's big execs be exposed as a child-abusing killer/accomplice to killing. And that his hope was to quickly bury it. That didn't happen.

Thanks for this SD. First time I've given thought to LM having the pull that initially kept JR's head off the chopping block. My only added opinion to this is that LM might have taken the lead in getting "cooperation" from AH, who, of course, had every reason to want to help them out..especially with retirement just around the bend.

 

[questfortrue]

“Quiet down, you in the crowd saying the emperor has no clothes. All of you quiet down.” Didn’t work out so well for the emperor and his minions. Didn’t turn out quite like AH planned for in this case and like he ‘seemingly’ accomplished in the Sid Wells case. Sid Wells was a homicide in boulder in 1983, DA AH had been on the job 10 years.

Per the Daily Camera (May 19, 2001) “In the investigation of University of Colorado student Sid Wells' gunshot death in 1983, the Boulder County District Attorney's Office asked a grand jury to ‘make no decision in this case on the issue of whether or not the suspect had murdered Sid Wells,’ according to court records of the grand jury proceeding later released under court order.

“Prosecutor Pete Maguire stated in an affidavit that he explained to the grand jury that he did not think there was enough evidence to file criminal charges.”

‘Poli-chickens’ - apt-title, SD. But how did AH ever convince himself this could just be swept away by his public announcement there would be no indictment??! A child’s homicide. Guess there’s plenty of precedent for hubris in law and politics.

And a postscript: Current DA SG has reopened the Sid Wells case and the police are looking now for the chief suspect. ML and PM (formerly of the Boulder DA’s office) are now partners in a law firm. moo.

 

[Charterhouse]

Why haven't more people talked?

I give a lot of credit to those who did and still do but I know there are more.

Why are the still not talking?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

There are been some people with connections to this case who have never talked to the media:

Burke, Melinda, John Andrew, Don, Polly, Elowsky, John and Barbara Fernie

And there's also been ones who have talked:

Lucinda, Nedra, Pam, Jeff and his wife Peggy, Joe Barnhill, Dr. Beuf, Mike and Pam Archuletta, Bynum, Pamela and Kristine Griffin, Megan Kostanick's mother, Fleet White, Bill and Janet McReynolds, Judith Phillips, Linda Hoffman-Pugh, Susan Stine

So it seems to be a personal decision about whether to talk to the media or not.

 

[Charterhouse]

There are been some people with connections to this case who have never talked to the media:

Burke, Melinda, John Andrew, Don, Polly, Elowsky, John and Barbara Fernie

And there's also been ones who have talked:

Lucinda, Nedra, Pam, Jeff and his wife Peggy, Joe Barnhill, Dr. Beuf, Mike and Pam Archuletta, Bynum, Pamela and Kristine Griffin, Megan Kostanick's mother, Fleet White, Bill and Janet McReynolds, Judith Phillips, Linda Hoffman-Pugh, Susan Stine

So it seems to be a personal decision about whether to talk to the media or not.

Thank you. I am wondering if any of those that did not come forward to the media came forward to the authorities. At the time I can see why not. I am wonder why not now. I am just thinking how can they live with something they might know and not tell someone. Of course they may not know anything for sure.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Speaking of talking to the media...

On other aspects of the Ramsey case, Korten said:

Ramsey's attorney, Bryon Morgan, "went ballistic" when he heard former FBI profiler John Douglas talk about details of his work for the Ramsey family's legal team, particularly interviews he granted to "Dateline NBC" and a talk show on CNN.

I wonder what Morgan was so angry about? Did Douglas say something he wasn't suppose to? Did he reveal that he was working for the R's when it was suppose to be kept secret?
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/jon14.htm

 

[DeeDee249]

Thank you. I am wondering if any of those that did not come forward to the media came forward to the authorities. At the time I can see why not. I am wonder why not now. I am just thinking how can they live with something they might know and not tell someone. Of course they may not know anything for sure.

MR's now husband, SL, had made some public comments from time to time. I get the impression he knew what JR was claiming about routing his adult kids to Boulder instead of Charlevoix maybe wasn't accurate. I know they married, do not know if they are still married. I got the impression he felt something wasn't right. MOO.
It isn't hard to see why people chose to remain silent. The Rs defense team quickly shut down anyone who even hinted at suspicion of the Rs. Many people were questioned, that is correct. But we have not seen the testimony of everyone.

 

[Charterhouse]

It sure sounds like JD was working for the R's in that article.

 

[chlban]

Charterhouse9992401

why haven't more people talked?

I give a lot of credit to those who did and still do but I know there are more.

Why are the still not talking?

Because they don't want to be sued. The Ramsey's have succesfully intimidated many people with the technique of threatening a lawwuit.

However, just because several people have not talked publicly out of fear, it doe not mean they have not talked to LE. We just aren't aware of exactly what they may have said to them.

But then, LE knows full well that there was never an intruder. The issue has always been proving which Ramsey actually comitted the crime, or, as I am now leaning toward, they may actually be pretty sure who actually did it, but that person could not legally be prosecuted.

 

[Charterhouse]

Charterhouse9992401

Because they don't want to be sued. The Ramsey's have succesfully intimidated many people with the technique of threatening a lawwuit.

However, just because several people have not talked publicly out of fear, it doe not mean they have not talked to LE. We just aren't aware of exactly what they may have said to them.

But then, LE knows full well that there was never an intruder. The issue has always been proving which Ramsey actually comitted the crime, or, as I am now leaning toward, they may actually be pretty sure who actually did it, but that person could not legally be prosecuted.

I agree with what you are saying here Chilban about being sued.

I am kind of at the point that SuperDave (I did read he said this I just can't find it again. Super Dave where are you?) is when he said if you want to sue me bring it on. Lets take this all the court.

 

[BBB167893]

I agree with what you are saying here Chilban about being sued.

I am kind of at the point that SuperDave (I did read he said this I just can't find it again. Super Dave where are you?) is when he said if you want to sue me bring it on. Lets take this all the court.

Here I am!

And here it is:

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8479546"]Shootin' from the Lip--Part One - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Not that it's relevant here, but you can add Jose Baez to that list!