Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

What Psychological Disorder do you think Jodi may have?


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Linda7NJ

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The tests would sort all that stuff out.

IMO

You're wrong.

Have you ever taken the MMPI? Are you even familiar with it? Many of the questions are redundant and repeated throughout. They're sorted out and divided up into groups that are turned into the T scores. Psychological tests are not like blood tests. They're based on self reporting. If someone can self report in a consistent way, they can manipulate the test.

One doesn't need to be a super genius to do it.


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molly333

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I just agreed with you on the anxiety being a factor so you should consider my analysis. I'm feeling at this point you are just debating for the sake of being right. I suggest you digress.

Furthermore the tests concluded that she is indeed borderline, which I believe as well.

Where am I not going by the tests here?

Thank you.

No. The tests did not conclude she was borderline. Dr. D. concluded she was borderline based on some parameters on the MMPI which is not designed to diagnose borderline. Other tests, such as MCMI did not show borderline, and that test would be more likely to show it than the MMPI. MCMI showed high levels of anxiety.

I have no dog in this fight. I am interested, though. This is the psychology thread. I do not believe she has been adequately diagnosed, yet.

IMO
 

molly333

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You're wrong.

Have you ever taken the MMPI? Are you even familiar with it? Many of the questions are redundant and repeated throughout. They're sorts out and divided up into groups that are turned into the T scores. Psychological tests are not like blood tests. They're based on self reporting. If someone can self report in a consistent way, they can manipulate the test.

One doesn't need to be a super genius to do it.


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I believe Dr. Geffner, a professional with 35 years experience who has also participated in the development of these tests and who teaches grad students what they are and how to give them.

He said that maybe he could cheat successfully because he knows the tests so well. But that it would be impossible for the average person to beat the test--especially in this case with the same test given twice years apart.

IMO
 

Linda7NJ

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I believe Dr. Geffner, a professional with 35 years experience who has also participated in the development of these tests and who teaches grad students what they are and how to give them.

He said that maybe he could cheat successfully because he knows the tests so well. But that it would be impossible for the average person to beat the test.

IMO

So what he has an over inflated ego?

You think Jodi is average? ALL of her evaluations say she isn't.


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slanda

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No. The tests did not conclude she was borderline. Dr. D. concluded she was borderline based on some parameters on the MMPI which is not designed to diagnose borderline. Other tests, such as MCMI did not show borderline, and that test would be more likely to show it than the MMPI. MCMI showed high levels of anxiety.

I have no dog in this fight. I am interested, though. This is the psychology thread. I do not believe she has been adequately diagnosed, yet.

IMO

Ok. I'll even concede that she tested highly for anxiety on the tests given. However, as everyone has pointed out, the tests aren't a basis for diagnostic personality disorders, or other disorders, such as mood, etc...

So, maybe she had anxiety because she actually murdered someone and other external factors that would induce obvious anxiety. But, IMO, she does not suffer from internal factors that induce anxiety, like an over active amygdala, obsessive thoughts, anticipatory anxiety, GAD. There is no outward expression of an anxiety disorder. One can suffer from anxiety, but not have an anxiety disorder. IMO, she does not have an anxiety disorder at all.
 

2Hip2BSquare

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No. The tests did not conclude she was borderline. Dr. D. concluded she was borderline based on some parameters on the MMPI which is not designed to diagnose borderline. Other tests, such as MCMI did not show borderline, and that test would be more likely to show it than the MMPI. MCMI showed high levels of anxiety.

I have no dog in this fight. I am interested, though. This is the psychology thread. I do not believe she has been adequately diagnosed, yet.

IMO

"The current version, the MCMI-III was published in 1994 and reflected revisions with DSM-IV. This version eliminated the aggressive and self-defeating personality scales and added scales for depressive and PTSD bringing the total number of scales to 14 personality scales, 10 clinical syndrome scales, and 5 correction scales. The previous 3-point item-weighting scale was modified to a 2-point scale. Additional content was added to include child abuse, anorexia and bulimia. The Grossman Facet scales are also new to this version. The MCMI-III is composed of 175 true-false questions that reportedly takes 25–30 minutes to complete.[5]"

It (MCMI) is completely contingent upon the MMPI. The only difference is the test omits things that would show her aggressive/selfd deafeating nature (her very Achilles heel(s))

Facts only with these kind of things please.
 

molly333

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Ok. I'll even concede that she tested highly for anxiety on the tests given. However, as everyone has pointed out, the tests aren't a basis for diagnostic personality disorders, or other disorders, such as mood, etc...

So, maybe she had anxiety because she actually murdered someone and other external factors that would induce obvious anxiety. But, IMO, she does not suffer from internal factors that induce anxiety, like an over active amygdala, obsessive thoughts, anticipatory anxiety, GAD. There is no outward expression of an anxiety disorder. One can suffer from anxiety, but not have an anxiety disorder. IMO, she does not have an anxiety disorder at all.

There is an outward expression of anxiety. It's just muted.

Did you see her hands shaking when she gave her speech to the Jury?

I didn't, but those in the court reported they were shaking.

IMO
 

slanda

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There is an outward expression of anxiety. It's just muted.

Did you see her hands shaking when she gave her speech to the Jury?

I didn't, but those in the court reported they were shaking.

IMO

I would say that her hands shaking while delivering a presentation to plead for her life would be a natural anxiety reaction. That's totally normal to have. Those moments of hyper-awareness are normal stress reactions. Completely not indicative of an anxiety disorder.

Please hear me when I say that anxiety responses, internal ones that emit from your amygdala cannot, under any circumstances, cannot ever be muted: they may be subtle but Something will outwardly manifest, always. Especially if she has an anxiety disorder. If she has anxiety it's from external sources not internal sources. Please understand what I'm saying. I know what I'm saying from a personal and psychological standpoint.

So, yes, she can test "high" for anxiety but that does not mean she has an anxiety disorder.
 

molly333

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"The current version, the MCMI-III was published in 1994 and reflected revisions with DSM-IV. This version eliminated the aggressive and self-defeating personality scales and added scales for depressive and PTSD bringing the total number of scales to 14 personality scales, 10 clinical syndrome scales, and 5 correction scales. The previous 3-point item-weighting scale was modified to a 2-point scale. Additional content was added to include child abuse, anorexia and bulimia. The Grossman Facet scales are also new to this version. The MCMI-III is composed of 175 true-false questions that reportedly takes 25–30 minutes to complete.[5]"

It (MCMI) is completely contingent upon the MMPI. The only difference is the test omits things that would show her aggressive/selfd deafeating nature (her very Achilles heel(s))

Facts only with these kind of things please.



The MCMI-III contains a total of 28 scales broken down into 24 clinical scales (personality and clinical syndrome scales) organized by severity. In addition, the MCMI-III features the addition of 42 Grossman Facet scale scores described in detail below.

Personality scales [edit]
14 Personality Disorder Scales correspond with Axis II diagnoses of the DSM-IV. They describe more pervasive conditions. They are broken down further into 11 basic, clinical personality patterns (Scales 1-8B) and 3 severe personality pathology scales (S-P).

Abbreviation Description
1 Schizoid
2A Avoidant
2B Depressive
3 Dependent
4 Histrionic
5 Narcissistic
6A Antisocial (Aggressive)
6B Sadistic
7 Compulsive
8A Negativistic (Passive-Aggressive)
8B Masochistic (Self-Defeating)
S Schizotypal
C Borderline
P Paranoid
 

2Hip2BSquare

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The MCMI-III contains a total of 28 scales broken down into 24 clinical scales (personality and clinical syndrome scales) organized by severity. In addition, the MCMI-III features the addition of 42 Grossman Facet scale scores described in detail below.

Personality scales [edit]
14 Personality Disorder Scales correspond with Axis II diagnoses of the DSM-IV. They describe more pervasive conditions. They are broken down further into 11 basic, clinical personality patterns (Scales 1-8B) and 3 severe personality pathology scales (S-P).

Abbreviation Description
1 Schizoid
2A Avoidant
2B Depressive
3 Dependent
4 Histrionic
5 Narcissistic
6A Antisocial (Aggressive)
6B Sadistic
7 Compulsive
8A Negativistic (Passive-Aggressive)
8B Masochistic (Self-Defeating)
S Schizotypal
C Borderline
P Paranoid


Do you not want to accept the answer I gave you or do you just want to come up with them all yourself?

You asked time and time again why her anxiety would be higher on MCMI and it is because MCMI specifically is geared toward pinpointing anxiety and PTSD IN LIEU of Anger/self defeat.

It is argued by many in the mental health field that the MCMI is NOT accurate in diagnosing Borderline Disorder bc borderline is marked by aggression and self defeating factors, NOT PTSD or Anxiety.

when she scored high on anxiety it actually could indicate high aggression/low self image.
 

2Hip2BSquare

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This is getting sophomoric at best. Taking a break. See y'all later.
 

molly333

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Do you not want to accept the answer I gave you or do you just want to come up with them all yourself?

You asked time and time again why her anxiety would be higher on MCMI and it is because MCMI specifically is geared toward pinpointing anxiety and PTSD IN LIEU of Anger/self defeat.

It is argued by many in the mental health field that the MCMI is NOT accurate in diagnosing Borderline Disorder bc borderline is marked by aggression and self defeating factors, NOT PTSD or Anxiety.

when she scored high on anxiety it actually could indicate high aggression/low self image.

I'm listening to Dr. Geffner and that is the only person I'm listening to with regard to these tests.

I didn't ask what you say I'm asking. That is not a question I have.

IMO
 

molly333

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Ok. I'll even concede that she tested highly for anxiety on the tests given. However, as everyone has pointed out, the tests aren't a basis for diagnostic personality disorders, or other disorders, such as mood, etc...

So, maybe she had anxiety because she actually murdered someone and other external factors that would induce obvious anxiety. But, IMO, she does not suffer from internal factors that induce anxiety, like an over active amygdala, obsessive thoughts, anticipatory anxiety, GAD. There is no outward expression of an anxiety disorder. One can suffer from anxiety, but not have an anxiety disorder. IMO, she does not have an anxiety disorder at all.

Ok. Let me put this another way.

I think she lives with high anxiety because of the stress of constantly having to read people and situations through contrived means.

I say contrived because I believe she has low empathy and does not have the abilities that the average person uses in reading people and situations.

So she's constantly on guard and trying to read the situation without having the tools to do it.

In other words, I believe she has a type of brain impairent that I am calling high level autism.

I think the anxiety level goes down for her if she is in a loving, supportive, and consistent environment and it goes up if she is in a complicated, rejecting, abusive, and chaotic environment.

But it's always there. And, she is a pro at dealing with it.

IMO
 

2Hip2BSquare

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Ok. Let me put this another way.

I think she lives with high anxiety because of the stress of constantly having to read people and situations through contrived means.

I say contrived because I believe she has low empathy and does not have the abilities that the average person uses in reading people and situations.

So she's constantly on guard and trying to read the situation without having the tools to do it.

In other words, I believe she has a type of brain impairent that I am calling high level autism.

I think the anxiety level goes down for her if she is in a loving, supportive, and consistent environment and it goes up if she is in a complicated, rejecting, abusive, and chaotic environment.

But it's always there. And, she is a pro at dealing with it.

IMO

Would you ever consider you could be misconstruing her Sociopathic Personality for autism?

You are describing a sociopath to a T.

And the last part you described:

"I think the anxiety level goes down for her if she is in a loving, supportive, and consistent environment and it goes up if she is in a complicated, rejecting, abusive, and chaotic environment."

^^^ exactly because she is also a borderline and narcissist (or as I honestly believed the narcissistic sister pf the borferline, HPD)


You are describing a person that lacks empathy, but has high anxiety when others don't provide an empathetic/accepting environment for her. Sounds like a self absorbed narcissist/borderline to me.
 

2Hip2BSquare

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And I'm sure people on here that deal with autism in their daily lives would appreciate you connecting autistic people with the sociopathic trait of being unable to empathize with others.

Autistic individuals have low cognitive empathy but mid range emotional empathy.

Sociopaths are the opposite.
 

Linda7NJ

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I'm listening to Dr. Geffner and that is the only person I'm listening to with regard to these tests.

I didn't ask what you say I'm asking. That is not a question I have.

IMO

Sometimes it's prudent to investigate and do some reading on your own instead of taking the word of a defense expert paid for his opinion.
His bias should be clear.
When forming an opinion, I prefer to seek the answers from those least likely to have a bias. Objectivity is so very important and a little reading to understand the material never hurt either;)


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molly333

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Would you ever consider you could be misconstruing her Sociopathic Personality for an Autistism?

You are describing a sociopath to a T.

And the last part you described:

"I think the anxiety level goes down for her if she is in a loving, supportive, and consistent environment and it goes up if she is in a complicated, rejecting, abusive, and chaotic environment."

^^^ exactly because she is also a borderline and narcissist (or as I honestly believed the narcissistic sister pf the borferline, HPD)


You are describing a person that lacks empathy, but has high anxiety when others don't provide an empathetic/accepting environment for her. Sounds like a self absorbed narcissist/borderline to me.

Yes, I understand what you are saying, and I did consider that.

The problem with that is for me 1) She doesn't present those personality disorder features on these tests, and 2) She presents other features which you would not expect to see in a psychopath.

I'm basing this on Dr. Geffner's testimony. I trust his analysis.

If you don't, then I guess we really have no basis for discussion.

But, please note--not one of the psychological professionals for either side who took the stand called her a psychopath. There's a reason for that.

IMO
 

Linda7NJ

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Ok. Let me put this another way.

I think she lives with high anxiety because of the stress of constantly having to read people and situations through contrived means.

I say contrived because I believe she has low empathy and does not have the abilities that the average person uses in reading people and situations.

So she's constantly on guard and trying to read the situation without having the tools to do it.

In other words, I believe she has a type of brain impairent that I am calling high level autism.

I think the anxiety level goes down for her if she is in a loving, supportive, and consistent environment and it goes up if she is in a complicated, rejecting, abusive, and chaotic environment.

But it's always there. And, she is a pro at dealing with it.

IMO

Be careful... You're venturing into psychopath territory...:)

Of course she can do well, as long as her needs are met, things go her way, and can easily obtain her goals.


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Linda7NJ

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Ok. Let me put this another way.

I think she lives with high anxiety because of the stress of constantly having to read people and situations through contrived means.

I say contrived because I believe she has low empathy and does not have the abilities that the average person uses in reading people and situations.

So she's constantly on guard and trying to read the situation without having the tools to do it.

In other words, I believe she has a type of brain impairent that I am calling high level autism.

I think the anxiety level goes down for her if she is in a loving, supportive, and consistent environment and it goes up if she is in a complicated, rejecting, abusive, and chaotic environment.

But it's always there. And, she is a pro at dealing with it.

IMO

If she were a pro, she wouldn't be awaiting a verdict if she gets to live or die;)

The world is full of very successful law abiding people with psychopathy.


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molly333

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If she were a pro, she wouldn't be awaiting a verdict if she gets to live or die;)

The world is full of very successful law abiding people with psychopathy.


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I agree. I'm talking about anxiety. She's a pro at living with anxiety.

IMO
 
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