Poll: Marlise Munoz Case: Did the judge make the right decision?

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by K_Z, Jan 25, 2014.

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Do you agree with the ruling that Marlise Munoz must be removed from life support?

Poll closed Feb 14, 2014.
  1. Yes, the judge ruled appropriately, and MM is dead, under Texas law.

    161 vote(s)
    91.0%
  2. No, the judge did not rule appropriately, and her body should remain on life support for the fetus.

    16 vote(s)
    9.0%
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  1. K_Z

    K_Z Verified Anesthetist

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    Today, January 24, 2014, the judge in the Marlise Munoz case ruled that Marlise Munoz's body must be taken off "life support" by 5 pm Monday, January 27, 2014. Mrs. Munoz collapsed at home, suffering a pulmonary embolism Nov 24, 2013, and was pronounced brain dead Nov. 26, 2013. It is reported that she was in an oxygen starved state for over an hour, with multiple episodes of cardiac arrest, per her husband's report.

    Mrs.Munoz was 14 weeks pregnant at her time of collapse, and with what is described as mandatory medical intervention, her pregnancy is now at 21-22 weeks gestation. The fetus has been found to be "distinctly abnormal", with hydrocephalus, a possible heart problem, deformed lower limbs, and the inability to distinguish gender. The woman's husband and family have insisted MM has expressed her wished that she did not want to be kept alive with extraordinary measures, but the hospital is stating that they are following Texas state law in keeping her on "life support" in an attempt to bring the fetus to term.

    Do you agree with the judge's ruling?

    With pregnant wife unresponsive on life support, husband hopes to fulfill her wishes - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
     
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  3. Linda7NJ

    Linda7NJ Active Member

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    I can't vote on tapatalk. Im voting down here...yes!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. Herding Cats

    Herding Cats New Member

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    I voted yes, as well. I understand if someone wants to vote no, and I respect their opinion...I just disagree.

    I hope that the hospital will not appeal, and release Marlise and her baby to move on to whatever comes next...with love, respect, and dignity.

    Best-
    Herding Cats
     
  5. athy

    athy Active Member

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    i'm so torn with this. i don't believe in letting the child die but then i consider the quality of life that poor child would have. i also realize that MANY children with disabilities do have an excellent quality of life and are such a blessing to their family. but i'm not so sure in this case. i do know if it were just the mother's life involved i'd definitely say yes. and i do agree with the judge's decision...i'm just torn. it's such a sad situation to be in.
     
  6. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    The thing is all those things are developed before the 14 weeks of her gestation. So all those things should have been known before the incident that took her life. They would not be a result of the incident.
    Did she know this ahead of time? And chose to keep the pregnancy?? These are the questions that bother me.
    Many amazing children are born without limbs. The Brain issues are a different matter but I wonder how severe it is?
     
  7. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    There are several possibilities of how abnormalities could have happened after mother collapsed. I think the only way to find out why the fetus is so abnormal is the autopsy. Which presumably will be carried out soon unless the hospital appeals.
     
  8. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    The limbs and heart all are developed before 14 weeks. So that is something that would have already been known.

    I have to wonder if she knew, made the choice not to abort, and now it is being done for her.
     
  9. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    There are conditions that affect the uterus that could result in abnormal limbs.
    Hear condition is only "possible." Could be there is no heart condition.
    If you can't see it well on a later ultrasound, how would she have seen it before 14 weeks gestation?
     
  10. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    No. Not really. The baby is fully formed at 14 weeks. The limbs and heart are fully developed. The limbs can not change after that.

    They would have known about it before. I have ultrasounds from the beginning of my Pregnancies all of them. at 12 weeks I could tell who was a boy and who wasn't. They can see and measure all that in US. I think the best tell would be her history with her OB.
     
  11. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    There are a number of conditions that can affect limbs due to abnormalities in the environment inside the uterus.
    Such as:
    "In order to study the pathogenesis of prenatal deformities, we reviewed maternal histories, delivery records, pathology reports, radiographs, and photographs of 90 fetuses with prenatally documented oligohydramnios at gestational ages from 14 weeks to term. The causes of oligohydramnios included premature rupture of membranes (44 cases), fetal renal insufficiency (25 cases), idiopathic (15 cases), and twin-twin transfusion (6 cases). The fetuses were grouped according to gestational age at delivery and duration of oligohydramnios. Sixty-three fetuses (70%) had documented contractures. As expected, contractures were more frequent with earlier onset and longer duration of oligohydramnios. During the 2nd trimester, the frequency of contractures in fetuses with oligohydramnios was 77% compared to 52% in the 3rd trimester (chi(2) = 5.33, 1 df, P =.02). Considering all gestational ages together, 57% of fetuses had contractures after less than 2 weeks of oligohydramnios compared to 81% of fetuses with a longer duration of oligohydramnios (chi2 = 6.23, 1 df, P <.02). The type of contracture varied with gestational age. Clubfoot was the most frequent at all ages, but hand contractures such as camptodactyly were common only in the 2nd trimester while the broad flat hand originally described in Potter sequence was found almost exclusively in the fetuses with oligohydramnios in the 3rd trimester. Of the 63 fetuses with oligohydramnios and contractures, 25 (40%) had either additional malformations or family history that could explain contractures independent of oligohydramnios."
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10508984
     
  12. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    Sorry. The brain stuff yes that can be affected but the baby is fully developed at 14 weeks. The limbs can not go back to being buds. They can not regrow a different way. What they are they are by then.
     
  13. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    No one said the limbs went back to being buds. They were described as being abnormal. Whatever that means.
     
  14. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    I understand, my point is whatever they are now, They were back then. That did not happen as a result of anything that happened to the mother.
     
  15. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    The limbs could have developed normally until 14 weeks and then stopped growing. What was normal for 14 weeks gestation is not going to be normal for 22 weeks gestation.
     
  16. pukasonqo2

    pukasonqo2 Member

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    from personal experience, ultrasounds do not always show problems, my daughter was born with a severe heart defect which wasn't diagnosed until she was three days old. Either the ultrasounds cannot show everything or the doctor was incompetent
     
  17. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    IT depends on how many weeks old the baby is and also the way the baby is laying. I know for me I had to once come back 3 days in a row to get the right shots needed to sign off on the baby.
    It is not that u/s can not pick it up, But that the tech needs to be good and the baby has to be cooperative to get the right shots.
     
  18. pukasonqo2

    pukasonqo2 Member

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    Posted in error
     
  19. pukasonqo2

    pukasonqo2 Member

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    My bad, posted before finishing writing! First u/s at 14 weeks, second at 21-22 weeks, we were shown the heart both times and both times were told all was good. as per your post (9) limbs and heart are fully formed by 14 weeks so a major congenital defects should be noticed.
    In this case We do not know if the foetus conditions were known to the parents, we know that the mother did not want to be kept "alive" in case of a severe brain injury that resulted in her being brain dead. The foetus seems to have severe deformities that might be a consequence of the mother's condition
    My personal view? This is is a very personal decision that this family should have been able to make, is not my position to tell others how to live their lives
     
  20. ScarlettScarpetta

    ScarlettScarpetta When the going gets tough, drink coffee

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    I have a few friends who had children who had heart defects and were told by 16 weeks or so. I know they can not catch everything though. I am sorry they did not catch it sooner in your case so you could be prepared.
     
  21. pukasonqo2

    pukasonqo2 Member

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    we were lucky, my daughter had two open heart surgeries and is now 14 yrs old. Thank you for your kind words!
     
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