Pontiac: The odor, sealing off & processing the car #2

[BeanE]

This is the updated timeline on the car with all the new credited information:

snip

Quoting JBean: 1:30 am estimated 7-16 YM arrives and GA tells YM about the smell when YM arrives. see GA's 8-4 interview by YM.

snip

BBM

I don't know where the 1:30 info came from, but Yuri says at the bond hearing he arrived 3:30 - 3:45.

Bond hearing - Part 3 - Cross by Baez:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeLdTCOF2lM[/ame]

Yuri testifies that he arrived at the home "about 3:30, 3:45 in the morning"

Addtl info: Yuri was the first detective at the house


Also noting regarding who told Yuri about the smell and when:

Part 1 - Drane-Burdick

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuuTH7GxFyk&feature=related[/ame]

- 3:30 Drane-Burdick asks why the car was taken to the forensics bay.

Melich: "There was a talk that there was a very bad smell inside the car"

- 3:36 After questioning KC, taking her around to Sawgrass, old folks home, Universal, the interview at Universal, etc. (this took several hours), he remembered that "somebody had mentioned there was a very bad odor in the car".

- 4:15 I've seen it noted that Yuri got into the car and smelled the smell. I wanted to know where he did this (home or forensics bay). Here he testifies that he did it at the forensics bay.

- 5:04 "Initially we were told that there was a bag of trash in the car when Mr. Anthony picked it up. The first thing we wanted to do was recover this bag of trash to determine whether or not that could have caused the odor."

For consideration FWIW: This seems to indicate that, when initially told about the smell, Yuri *may have been* led to believe the smell was from trash. I know. Circumstantial. Further supporting circumstantial evidence would be George's claims that earlier in the day Cindy said something like 'it's the pizza, right, George?', and that he attempted to reassure her by saying yes, the smell was the nonexistent pizza. And of course, we all know about all of Cindy's vehement claims that the smell was the nonexistent pizza.

 

[Intermezzo]

I think you're on target with this scenario. I think the responding officers focus was on a missing child and at that point the Anthony home and vehicles were not suspect or important. It was only after Casey's story/lies started to unravel that the detectives focused on evidence of a possible crime. When they questioned Casey at Universal, it's evident that JA and YM suspected foul play. That interview took place on July 16, and later that day, the car was towed to the police impound.

The Pontiac was compromised the moment George drove it home from the impound yard, hours prior to LE involvement.

I thought the first responding officers arrived to deal with the 911 call Cindy placed about reporting Casey to LE for having stolen the car and money.
Then I thought more officers arrived on scene to deal with the 911 call reporting Caylee missing and kidnapped.
I think there were officers from different departments arriving at the A home for different reasons that night.

 

[BeanE]

So if I am understanding this timeline correctly, then the white trash bag that I had thought was at the towyard in the dumpster for only a few hours, from 2pm to 10pm 8 hrs on the 15th, was actually in that dumpster from roughly 2pm on the 15th until somewhere between 7:30 abd 9:30 on the 16th, or roughly 30 hours?

Correct per my research FWIW

 

[BeanE]

I thought the first responding officers arrived to deal with the 911 call Cindy placed about reporting Casey to LE for having stolen the car and money.
Then I thought more officers arrived on scene to deal with the 911 call reporting Caylee missing and kidnapped.
I think there were officers from different departments arriving at the A home for different reasons that night.

Deputy Ryan Eberlin was the first responding officer to the house. He was responding to Cindy's stolen vehicle complaint. Upon arrival/talking, he concluded that a kidnapping had occurred.

ETA: additional first responder name: Adriana Acevedo

ETA 2: The order of arrival is corrected in one of my posts a bit further down.

 

[cecybeans]

So if I am understanding this timeline correctly, then the white trash bag that I had thought was at the towyard in the dumpster for only a few hours, from 2pm to 10pm 8 hrs on the 15th, was actually in that dumpster from roughly 2pm on the 15th until somewhere between 7:30 abd 9:30 on the 16th, or roughly 30 hours?

I imagine that the towyard can attest to whether anyone had access to that area for the time. I'm not sure if the dumpster is totally off the property or just over an internal fence. I'd think it sensible to assume to no one but the family would have considered it valuable in any way and even a homeless dumpster diver wouldn't have bothered to inspect a bag that smelled like it had been in the car with a dead body for weeks. The fact no real food was found in it, makes me think it would have no value to anyone whatsoever unless they knew ahead of time it could be considered evidence.

 

[JBean]

BBM

I don't know where the 1:30 info came from, but Yuri says at the bond hearing he arrived 3:30 - 3:45.

Bond hearing - Part 3 - Cross by Baez:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeLdTCOF2lM

Yuri testifies that he arrived at the home "about 3:30, 3:45 in the morning"

Addtl info: Yuri was the first detective at the house


Also noting regarding who told Yuri about the smell and when:

Part 1 - Drane-Burdick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuuTH7GxFyk&feature=related

- 3:30 Drane-Burdick asks why the car was taken to the forensics bay.

Melich: "There was a talk that there was a very bad smell inside the car"

- 3:36 After questioning KC, taking her around to Sawgrass, old folks home, Universal, the interview at Universal, etc. (this took several hours), he remembered that "somebody had mentioned there was a very bad odor in the car".

- 4:15 I've seen it noted that Yuri got into the car and smelled the smell. I wanted to know where he did this (home or forensics bay). Here he testifies that he did it at the forensics bay.

- 5:04 "Initially we were told that there was a bag of trash in the car when Mr. Anthony picked it up. The first thing we wanted to do was recover this bag of trash to determine whether or not that could have caused the odor."

For consideration FWIW: This seems to indicate that, when initially told about the smell, Yuri *may have been* led to believe the smell was from trash. I know. Circumstantial. Further supporting circumstantial evidence would be George's claims that earlier in the day Cindy said something like 'it's the pizza, right, George?', and that he attempted to reassure her by saying yes, the smell was the nonexistent pizza. And of course, we all know about all of Cindy's vehement claims that the smell was the nonexistent pizza.

The 1:30 came from the fact that no one knew the answer and we know he was contacted at 12:45 and we guesstimated 45 minutes to get there. So the 3;30 cuts 2 hours of both best case scenario and nothing off worst case. So I think it is safe to say between 13 and 22 hours both of which are far too long.
8-4 interview with GA confirms to me that YM knew about the smell from the beginning.
The bond hearing testimony by YM is the very thing that convinces me this was absolutely an afterthought and that is what bothers me the most.

ETA: Interestingly I think we have always been estimating between 12 and 24 so we did pretty well!

 

[JBean]

Deputy Ryan Eberlin was the first responding officer to the house. He was responding to Cindy's stolen vehicle complaint. Upon arrival/talking, he concluded that a kidnapping had occurred.

A kidnapping has occurred 31 days prior which the mother fails to report. They are notified of a decomp odor in the mother's car and that doesn't sound off all kinds of alarms?
Don't get it.

Didi Eberlin testify at the bond hearing? I keep thinking there was amother officer aside from YM that testified he thought the smell was decomp when he got to the house. But I cannot find it. So maybe I am dreaming.

 

[BeanE]

The 1:30 came from the fact that no one knew the answer and we know he was contacted at 12:45 and we guesstimated 45 minutes to get there. So the 3;30 cuts 2 hours of both best case scenario and nothing off worst case. So I think it is safe to say between 13 and 22 hours both of which are far too long.
8-4 interview with GA confirms to me that YM knew about the smell from the beginning.
The bond hearing testimony by YM is the very thing that convinces me this was absolutely an afterthought and that is what bothers me the most.

Yuri was definitely told about the smell early on his arrival. But what about the officers who were there for hours before his arrival? Surely they noticed it, or GA, CA, or LA said something to them. I assume they briefed Yuri on his arrival. I wonder if they told him about it.

ETA: And the answer is...

Yuri's investigative report

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155354.pdf

PDF page 10, very last line, and on to page 11

Yuri writes:

As a note, the initial responding deputies had found a handwritten note with the address of 232 Glenwood in Casey's car prior to my arrival

 

[BeanE]

A kidnapping has occurred 31 days prior which the mother fails to report. They are notified of a decomp odor in the mother's car and that doesn't sound off all kinds of alarms?
Don't get it.

Didi Eberlin testify at the bond hearing? I keep thinking there was amother officer aside from YM that testified he thought the smell was decomp when he got to the house. But I cannot find it. So maybe I am dreaming.

I was looking for anyone testifying other than Yuri, LA, GA, CA this morning, and I didn't find anyone.

 

[BeanE]

Finally!

First page is the report from one of the first responding officers, Adriana Acevedo.

First on scene: Rendon Fletcher
2nd officer on scene: Adriana Acevedo
3rd officer on scene: Ryan Eberlin

http://flawebhosting.net/docdump110608/dcf.pdf

No smell mentioned by Adriana

"arrived in reference to a stolen vehicle (which was later change into a kidnapping)"

End of report says 'see original report for further details'. grrrrrr

Looking for more statements from these officers...

ETA: Addtl first responder names:
Ryan Williams
Robert Salamat
Reggie Hosey

 

[JBean]

Yuri was definitely told about the smell early on his arrival. But what about the officers who were there for hours before his arrival? Surely they noticed it, or GA, CA, or LA said something to them. I assume they briefed Yuri on his arrival. I wonder if they told him about it.

ETA: And the answer is...

Yuri's investigative report

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/1126/18155354.pdf

PDF page 10, very last line, and on to page 11

Yuri writes:

As a note, the initial responding deputies had found a handwritten note with the address of 232 Glenwood in Casey's car prior to my arrival

Crikey! I forgot about that!! I am sticking with my range LOL 12-22 hours

 

[BeanE]

Crikey! I forgot about that!! I am sticking wiht my range LOL 12-22 hours

Yep, just to note specifically, it no longer matters if the 911 call notes show Cindy's decomp statement was relayed to the first responding officers.

We've now confirmed that one of the first responding officers was in the car, and I don't think we need to wonder if they noticed the smell or not. Lee had to leave the garage within minutes when he was in there with KC the smell was so strong and repugnant, he couldn't stand it. (ref: Lee's OCSO interview. Link in one of my previous posts in this thread w/page #)

It also doesn't matter (to me) if GA/CA tried to tell Yuri it was trash. This officer should have apprised Yuri immediately upon Yuri's arrival. Perhaps did. I just don't have confirmation.

Still searching for more first responder statements.

Addtl info:
Addtl names of first responders:
Ryan Williams
Robert Salamat

Also, as a note, the first responders took KC around to the locations. By the time Yuri arrived, they already knew she was lying. This may explain the skepticism I perceived from Yuri in his very first interview of KC at the house.

All this being the case, why didn't they seal the car earlier? Does procedure dictate that only CSI can seal? Not an officer? Not a detective? At the very least, can't and shouldn't an officer stand guard until somebody seals? And wh oh why did the first officers let KC - and Lee for that matter - go into the garage?

Still also looking for Lee saying that KC was alone in the garage when he went to the garage.

 

[TorisMom003]

Lee's July 30, 2009 depo on pages 150-151 is where he is also talking about Casey being in the garage alone.


Lee Anthony State Deposition - July 30, 2009
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21310241/detail.html


HTH

ETA changed the last page number and added link, hope it works,first time doing this

 

[LambChop]

Maybe it is as simple as them wanting to get as much information from KC as possible before arresting her. If they sealed the car right away my guess is GA would have told KC she needed to get an attorney. JMO

 

[BeanE]

Yuri's probable cause statement for KC's arrest has no mention of the smell.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/07/21/caylee.affidavit.pdf

 

[JBean]

Yep, just to note specifically, it no longer matters if the 911 call notes show Cindy's decomp statement was relayed to the first responding officers.

We've now confirmed that one of the first responding officers was in the car, and I don't think we need to wonder if they noticed the smell or not. Lee had to leave the garage within minutes when he was in there with KC the smell was so strong and repugnant, he couldn't stand it. (ref: Lee's OCSO interview. Link in one of my previous posts in this thread w/page #)

It also doesn't matter (to me) if GA/CA tried to tell Yuri it was trash. This officer should have apprised Yuri immediately upon Yuri's arrival. Perhaps did. I just don't have confirmation.

Still searching for more first responder statements.

Addtl info:
Addtl names of first responders:
Ryan Williams
Robert Salamat

Also, as a note, the first responders took KC around to the locations. By the time Yuri arrived, they already knew she was lying. This may explain the skepticism I perceived from Yuri in his very first interview of KC at the house.

All this being the case, why didn't they seal the car earlier? Does procedure dictate that only CSI can seal? Not an officer? Not a detective? At the very least, can't and shouldn't an officer stand guard until somebody seals? And wh oh why did the first officers let KC - and Lee for that matter - go into the garage?

Still also looking for Lee saying that KC was alone in the garage when he went to the garage.

well that is the problem I am having in a nutshell. Thank you for working so hard on this! You are a monster.
If any of these officers said holy crikey smells like a dead body in here! I don't think one of those officers would have let anyone go in or near the car. GA and CA gave over everything in the first 24 hours. There is no doubt in my mind that they would have turned the car over pronto, that minute.

IN the earlier discussions about this issue, I remember posting that perhaps the smell just wasn't all that bad. I thought there might be a case for it actually being trash. But it seems that is just impossible with so many people saying it was God-awful. The smell being benign was the only way I could reconcile the delay on sealing the car. But now I think they just didnt put it together fast enough and the minute the light went on they took care of it.
I wonder if GA and CA actually had their fear assuaged a bit when LE did not jump all over the car. Maybe..(they might have thought)..this actually is just trash. KWIM?

 

[JBean]

Yuri's probable cause statement for KC's arrest has no mention of the smell.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/07/21/caylee.affidavit.pdf

That has always been an issue for me. As a matter of fact we all thought he didn't know about it because of that affadavit. But when docs were released we knew that he was aware and during the bond hearing it was revealed.
.

 

[Harmony 2]

BBM

I don't know where the 1:30 info came from, but Yuri says at the bond hearing he arrived 3:30 - 3:45.

Bond hearing - Part 3 - Cross by Baez:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeLdTCOF2lM

Yuri testifies that he arrived at the home "about 3:30, 3:45 in the morning"

Addtl info: Yuri was the first detective at the house


Also noting regarding who told Yuri about the smell and when:

Part 1 - Drane-Burdick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuuTH7GxFyk&feature=related

- 3:30 Drane-Burdick asks why the car was taken to the forensics bay.

Melich: "There was a talk that there was a very bad smell inside the car"

- 3:36 After questioning KC, taking her around to Sawgrass, old folks home, Universal, the interview at Universal, etc. (this took several hours), he remembered that "somebody had mentioned there was a very bad odor in the car".

- 4:15 I've seen it noted that Yuri got into the car and smelled the smell. I wanted to know where he did this (home or forensics bay). Here he testifies that he did it at the forensics bay.

- 5:04 "Initially we were told that there was a bag of trash in the car when Mr. Anthony picked it up. The first thing we wanted to do was recover this bag of trash to determine whether or not that could have caused the odor."

For consideration FWIW: This seems to indicate that, when initially told about the smell, Yuri *may have been* led to believe the smell was from trash. I know. Circumstantial. Further supporting circumstantial evidence would be George's claims that earlier in the day Cindy said something like 'it's the pizza, right, George?', and that he attempted to reassure her by saying yes, the smell was the nonexistent pizza. And of course, we all know about all of Cindy's vehement claims that the smell was the nonexistent pizza.

Thanks, I made the correction to reflect the 3:30- 3:45am timeframe.

 

[BeanE]

Lee's July 30, 2009 depo on pages 150-151 is where he is also talking about Casey being in the garage alone.


Lee Anthony State Deposition - July 30, 2009
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21310241/detail.html


HTH

ETA changed the last page number and added link, hope it works,first time doing this

Yes! That's it! Exactly what I was looking for! Lee says KC was in the garage alone.

Yes. She -- she had -- at one point she -- she went out -- they -- I don't know if they made -- if she went to the living room. I don't know what prompted them to -- her to go in the garage. I was probably on a call or something like that prior, but I remember coming back in and asking where Casey was or coming from another room asking where Casey was and, you know, they said she was outside.

So I went out in the garage and I, you know, I sat next to her for a minute.

snip

About how long was Casey in the garage by herself?

Five minutes, if I had to guess.


This has just made my hair stand on end since Day... well, whatever day this was first revealed. Just shocking.

 

[JBean]

Yes! That's it! Exactly what I was looking for! Lee says KC was in the garage alone.

Yes. She -- she had -- at one point she -- she went out -- they -- I don't know if they made -- if she went to the living room. I don't know what prompted them to -- her to go in the garage. I was probably on a call or something like that prior, but I remember coming back in and asking where Casey was or coming from another room asking where Casey was and, you know, they said she was outside.

So I went out in the garage and I, you know, I sat next to her for a minute.

snip

About how long was Casey in the garage by herself?

Five minutes, if I had to guess.


This has just made my hair stand on end since Day... well, whatever day this was first revealed. Just shocking.

IMO this is fairly big error that I hope will not have much impact on evidence.