Position of arms

[Nehemiah]

I think simply because her arms were not restrained during the garroting. She was turned over and then the staging happened. When she was lying on her back you couldn't very well tie her hands underneath. No, it was obvious her hands were tied after and tied above her head to look like bondage staging.

To clarify my other post, I am envisioning that she is on her stomach, garrotting occurring...doesn't it seem awkward to pull her arms up over her head at that point?

 

[Cranberry]

To clarify my other post, I am envisioning that she is on her stomach, garrotting occurring...doesn't it seem awkward to pull her arms up over her head at that point?

Maybe the arms were pulled up for the redressing of the shirt and then the cord was tied to the wrists

 

[UKGuy]

That was a very thought-provoking post.

How would one account for liver mortis in your scenario?

So, are you theorizing that she was murdered and staged, and someone different came along and re-staged?

The thought about the panties sounds like the best explanation I've heard: the perp was just looking for that day of the week, because it was Wednesday. We've often wondered why he/she chose a large size panty, but that would account for that reason.

Nehemiah,

Yes an initial staging or amateur cover up. This feature could correspond with the scenario sketched out in the original "abduction note" which would have been penned on pages 17-25 of the pad, but those pages were ripped out, and removed, the police never ever found them. Only the drafts from page 26 onwards remain. Why remove forensic evidence unless it is at variance with the deceased's current disposition or incriminates the remover directly?

Since I am not certain as to the timing or onset of the liver mortis, this makes it difficult to judge if she was never moved or reposed.

If JonBenet was redressed after strangulation, then her arms may be above her head to accomodate her white gap top, she may have been wearing entirely different clothing, or none at all during her strangulation. But I am willing to guess JonBenet never went to bed wearing that white gap top, especially when her bedclothes were under her pillow, and she had worn them the night before, as seen in her xmas-day photo! Just as its incongruent for Patsy to wear the same clothes two days running, similarly for JonBenet to wear her day clothing to bed, she was not lost for clothing.

Some other aspects are JonBenet's hair ties and pigtails, lack of socks, her size-12 underwear, white longjohns, no urine stains on the wine-cellar floor. Some of these may relate to a prior staging occurrence, or they may partially represent an attempt at obscuring the intended scenario that was to chime with the alleged missing contents from "abduction note" #1.

So the simplest explanation for arms above her head is either circumstance and rigor mortis brought them there or she was redressed, as in re-clothed from being nude or her other clothing was replaced.

Its an open question if she was redressed in the white longjohns and size-12 underwear in the basement or say upstairs on a bed, but she appears to have been wiped down after being redressed.

So I am convinced there were at least two staging events, the purpose of say the second, I am not certain about, since it may have been to hide the fact that JonBenet had been indecently posed, or to remove evidence of a prior staging that was to match the contents of the missing "abduction note" #1.

 

[Rupert]

To clarify my other post, I am envisioning that she is on her stomach, garrotting occurring...doesn't it seem awkward to pull her arms up over her head at that point?

To clarify my post also, I believe she was garroted while lying on her stomach. Her hands were not yet tied and she grabbed the garrote perhaps as a basic reflex and a scream of surprise and alarm rang out. Then she was turned over in her final repose and her hands were then tied up above her head.

 

[txsvicki]

None of it makes any sense to me. If JonBenet were conscious or able to move when she was garrotted or sexually assaulted, then why is there no bruising on her body and no signs of a struggle and no gag? Her hair wasn't really even messed up. I just can't believe that a little girl would willingly go down into a cold dark scary basement with anyone late at night like that unless just maybe someone told her that more presents were hidden down in that room.

 

[trixie]

Regarding any bruising and signs of struggle, I am sure I'm in the minority on this but I don't think now nor have I ever thought that the full and complete autopsy report was ever released to the public. I'm not saying what was released was fake, I just think there is another more full and complete report kept from us the public in this case.There are things we don't know in there and that is what makes it harder to decipher what may have actually happened that night. We can go round and round and we do because we don't really have all the facts. I'd be willing to bet if we could see the full and complete report some people might even change their theories. Just IMO.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I also suspect we the public have not seen a more complete autopsy and that one exists that is being kept private.

I also think that there is not very much bruising, defensive wounds, signs of struggle, etc., because the killer was someone JonBenet knew very well and was accustomed to being compliant with - such as either one of her parents. I think she was also afraid to resist, and had been part of a "game" like the one that killed her before...although not to the extent that was carried out that Christmas night.

I'm not sure if she died in the basement, I kinda think she was moved and arranged in the basement after her death as staging.

She probably screamed, neighbors claim to have heard it, but I doubt it was as the garrote was cinching ever tighter around her neck, causing her to claw at it to catch a breath. I believe she clawed at the cord around her neck reflexively, and if it's strangling her so bad that she unconscioucly reached up and desperately tore at it with her little fingers, making scratches in her neck, then she can't fill her lungs with enough breath to belt out a scream that could be heard outside the house.

 

[Moab]

According to the Ramseys, their basement wasn’t cold, as evidenced by John Ramsey’s version of why the window was open down there. He said when he and Burke would be down there in the Winter playing with the trains, they would get warm, and they often opened the window some.


Ordinarily, I might agree with the “original” version of the autopsy being withheld from the public, but in this case with as many documents, facts, comments, etc. that were leaked or sold, I can’t imagine that to be true. I think on this one, what you see is all there was.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I also suspect we the public have not seen a more complete autopsy and that one exists that is being kept private.

I also think that there is not very much bruising, defensive wounds, signs of struggle, etc., because the killer was someone JonBenet knew very well and was accustomed to being compliant with - such as either one of her parents. I think she was also afraid to resist, and had been part of a "game" like the one that killed her before...although not to the extent that was carried out that Christmas night.

I'm not sure if she died in the basement, I kinda think she was moved and arranged in the basement after her death as staging.

She probably screamed, neighbors claim to have heard it, but I doubt it was as the garrote was cinching ever tighter around her neck, causing her to claw at it to catch a breath. I believe she clawed at the cord around her neck reflexively, and if it's strangling her so bad that she unconsciously reached up and desperately tore at it with her little fingers, making scratches in her neck, then she can't fill her lungs with enough breath to belt out a scream that could be heard outside the house.

I do not think it's possible for an unconscious person to claw at their neck, even if that person is being strangled.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Do you think she was unconsious when she was strangled? The marks on her neck made by her own fingernails dispute that. She was conscious and struggling to remove the cord so she could breathe. I said she "unconsciously reached up and desperately tore at it" to imply that she wouldn't have done it on purpose (I think because she was afraid to disobey her molester), and the drive to survive kicked in, causing her to dig at her own neck in effort to breathe. Her hands could not have been restrained at that point, or she would not have been able to reach her neck...why else would a molester strangling a child not tie her hands up? Because JonBenet knew the molester, this has happened before, and she knew better than to resist.

 

[ellen13]

good point

 

[Linda7NJ]

Do you think she was unconscious when she was strangled? The marks on her neck made by her own fingernails dispute that. She was conscious and struggling to remove the cord so she could breathe. I said she "unconsciously reached up and desperately tore at it" to imply that she wouldn't have done it on purpose (I think because she was afraid to disobey her molester), and the drive to survive kicked in, causing her to dig at her own neck in effort to breathe. Her hands could not have been restrained at that point, or she would not have been able to reach her neck...why else would a molester strangling a child not tie her hands up? Because JonBenet knew the molester, this has happened before, and she knew better than to resist.

:doh: I misunderstood your post, I thought you meant she was not conscious.....never mind...I agree with you 100%

 

[Rupert]

Do you think she was unconsious when she was strangled? The marks on her neck made by her own fingernails dispute that. She was conscious and struggling to remove the cord so she could breathe. I said she "unconsciously reached up and desperately tore at it" to imply that she wouldn't have done it on purpose (I think because she was afraid to disobey her molester), and the drive to survive kicked in, causing her to dig at her own neck in effort to breathe. Her hands could not have been restrained at that point, or she would not have been able to reach her neck...why else would a molester strangling a child not tie her hands up? Because JonBenet knew the molester, this has happened before, and she knew better than to resist.

You have a point there Nuisanceposter. To be clear and face the facts: no blood in the head wound suggests the garroting came first, but I think she might have come out of her paralysis once the effects of the stun gun wore off, or after she woke up. It has been suggested that the garroting happened up in the bedroom while she was asleep, but alas the garrote was fashioned from the paintbrush which was down in the basement. It has also been suggested that she might have voluntarily gone down to the basement after having some pineapple, but the garlands in the hair suggest she was carried downstairs. So, perhaps she was stun gunned in her bed, carried down to the basement, garroted and bashed outside the windowless room, and then hidden in the room. The head bash fits with JonBenet face down, almost if not dead and then headbashed with a heavy weapon, very controlled and close to be so precise without breaking the skin. This sounds like IDI but is not necessarily so. If you follow the facts pre and post the murder what do you get?