Possible Break in Stacy's case - Cops planning on a search tomorrow 6/5/10

[Steely Dan]

Does anyone know what this high tech equipment is that anthropologist, Harn, is recommending that LE bring in to use in the search for Stacy? I've read that archeologists have some sort of equipment they use prior to any sort of excavation to determine the location of an ancient buried village. But what exactly does this equipment see? Can it see a human skeleton? Or is it limited to only seeing artificial outlines indicating a man-made object or structure?

Here's some stuff; Link

Locating Graves - Introduction

Ground penetrating radar surveys are useful for locating graves by detecting the buried coffin or vault. In cases where a vault or coffin does not exist, GeoModel, Inc. can examine the GPR data for disturbed soil or other remains of the burial. Remains of burials are easier to locate in sandy soils that do not contain tree roots or stones. Ground penetrating radar (GPR) is operated above the ground surface, and produces a cross-sectional image of the ground.

GeoModel, Inc. conducts GPR surveys for locating graves using a GPR digital control unit and antennas with frequencies of 400 or 900 MHz. Depths of investigation and the detail of the images observed are determined by the antenna that is used when conducting the survey and the soil type. A 400-MHz antenna will examine the subsurface to depths of up to 8 feet in sandy soils, but less deep in clayey soils. A higher frequency antenna (900-MHz or higher) can examine the near surface (up to 3 feet in depth) in greater detail.


I would imagine finding a large drum shouldn't be too hard. JMO

 

[Noway]

My intention in posting info about the Frye Ultralight Airport was to show a possible connection between Drew and the area being searched.

I am looking for the article in which a Cushing Field (where the Ultralight was kept) employee indicated Drew had not flown the Ultralight around this time. It was brought to my attention on another board but no link was given, so for now, consider that JMO.

ETA
http://www.acandyrose.com/stacy_peterson_airports_cushing.htm (not what I was looking for, but of interest for other snips of info IMO)

"He was actually a private pilot before that," Hudetz said. "He flew regular airplanes. He seemed like a very nice guy." http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/633460,CST-NWS-boling03.article (link broken but if you search for that sentence, you'll find the article in full.)

 

[Noway]

Ed Miller: Would you trust an anonymous letter that you receive in the mail? It could be from a crazy person or DP did it himself. One police theory is that DP purposely placed SP's body in an area near the home of a man that DP suspects SP was having an affair with. WE DO KNOW THAT DP DID INDEED GO UP IN HIS ULTRALIGHT THE DAY SP DISAPPEARED, not to dispose of her body (it would have been too heavy to use the ultralight for that purpose), but instead to scope out where to put her body.

http://www.acandyrose.com/2007-11-25-FoxNews-LineUp.htm


This is the opposite of what I was told to look for.

 

[faefrost]

This is fascinating! Based on what you've posted, if LE obtains one of these high-tech GPR devices and a team to operate it, they could do complete coverage of the search site, which in one article was estimated to be about an acre in size, in a few days.

I would think that if there's human remains within that search site, or a metal barrel as was stated in the original TMZ article, they would be found with that type of equipment.

We could be assured that if a search was done with GPR, and nothing found, that it was a thorough search and nothing is there.

I remember that after Jaycee Duggard was found, LE used some sort of device to go over the land next door to see if there were any remains of victims of Phillip Garrido. I bet they used GPR.

The metal is apparently very easy to find as long as the local soil is not already saturated in high metal content. The team that was at my friends park this year had very clear hits from what turned out to be 3 large metal cauldrons dating back to the 1700's buried about 5' deep, in what turned out to be a previously unknown and unmapped production area of the fort. (still some debate as to whether it was a laundry or an acorn boiling/rendering facility).

anyway my point is that as long as the soil in the area doesn't have a real high iron content, a metal barrel should generate a pretty strong hit.

 

[wasalurker]

I'm gonna ask a stupid question here as I really cannot remember and I have tried today during the little time I have had to find it but can't.....
Did TM specify say "blue METAL barrel" or just "blue barrel"....cause honestly I have seen a ton of blue barrels that are a heavy plastic material....
Help please???
TIA :smile:

ETA: Never mind - I found an article that I was looking for that specifies it: a blue PLASTIC barrel

BBM and Underlined by me

snipped
Peterson then picked up Morphey and brought him to the Peterson residence. The two men went inside, Morphey said, and carried a blue plastic barrel weighing about 150 pounds downstairs to Peterson's sport utility vehicle

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/...eterson-hearsay-day2-stepbro-JO012110.article

 

[wasalurker]

So would one of those GPR devices hit on a plastic barrel?

ETA: and just a side thought - if he needed help to move it to his vehicle I would think he would need help to move it out.....and to move it to wherever it went ...JMOO

 

[Peculiar Petunia]

The metal is apparently very easy to find as long as the local soil is not already saturated in high metal content. The team that was at my friends park this year had very clear hits from what turned out to be 3 large metal cauldrons dating back to the 1700's buried about 5' deep, in what turned out to be a previously unknown and unmapped production area of the fort. (still some debate as to whether it was a laundry or an acorn boiling/rendering facility).

anyway my point is that as long as the soil in the area doesn't have a real high iron content, a metal barrel should generate a pretty strong hit.

FWIW, well water in the area is hard, but doesn't leave rust stains (don't know how that relates to the soil). The Peoria area is starting to get very close to the coal beds. You can occasionally see seams of coal in road cuts. I could do a little poking around online to see if I see any soil analyses available.

 

[Leila]

Here's some stuff; Link

Locating Graves - Introduction

Ground penetrating radar surveys are useful for locating graves by detecting the buried coffin or vault. In cases where a vault or coffin does not exist, GeoModel, Inc. can examine the GPR data for disturbed soil or other remains of the burial. Remains of burials are easier to locate in sandy soils that do not contain tree roots or stones. Ground penetrating radar (GPR) is operated above the ground surface, and produces a cross-sectional image of the ground.

GeoModel, Inc. conducts GPR surveys for locating graves using a GPR digital control unit and antennas with frequencies of 400 or 900 MHz. Depths of investigation and the detail of the images observed are determined by the antenna that is used when conducting the survey and the soil type. A 400-MHz antenna will examine the subsurface to depths of up to 8 feet in sandy soils, but less deep in clayey soils. A higher frequency antenna (900-MHz or higher) can examine the near surface (up to 3 feet in depth) in greater detail.


I would imagine finding a large drum shouldn't be too hard. JMO

Thanks for the link Steely Dan! There's a lot of good information there, and I'm confident that if they use the GPR, they'll find her if she's buried there.

This could be what the wait if for..............they're lining up a GPR and team to operate it.

 

[wasalurker]

Thanks for that info - I guess it doesn't matter what kind of barrel it is with that equipment - or no barrel at all. If they use and she's there they will find her...:smile:

 

[Leila]

The metal is apparently very easy to find as long as the local soil is not already saturated in high metal content. The team that was at my friends park this year had very clear hits from what turned out to be 3 large metal cauldrons dating back to the 1700's buried about 5' deep, in what turned out to be a previously unknown and unmapped production area of the fort. (still some debate as to whether it was a laundry or an acorn boiling/rendering facility).

anyway my point is that as long as the soil in the area doesn't have a real high iron content, a metal barrel should generate a pretty strong hit.

Very interesting! It makes me wonder what type of soil is there. It's along a creek, and the Google images indicate that creek can get high during heavy rains. I would imagine the soil might be a lot of silt.

 

[passionflower]

He left and returned on his motorcycle. But I don't remember any report on whether or not his ultralight was moved that week.

I've always felt that the 3-day head clearing trip was for the purpose of disposing of Stacy's body. I also feel DP had to have help. I think he had Stacy's body stored somewhere, and when he left on his motorcycle, he met his accomplice and together they retrieved Stacy's body and proceeded to wherever they went.

One of the people who acted suspiciously is Mike Robinson. According Rick Mims, who stayed at the Peterson home for a few days, Mike Robinson showed up and gave DP a cell phone and instead of talking, they passed notes back and forth. Whether or not Mike Robinson is the accomplice or just a go-between person, acting as a courier between DP and the accomplice is not known. I feel Mike Robinson played some sort of role in helping DP.

BBM and Steve C seemed to be by DP side even when finding Kathleen Savio that night in the dry bath tub.............helped DP out then and maybe again. Didn't Steve C owe allot of money to DP??? (gambling?)

 

[passionflower]

LOCALS......any news about what's happening???

 

[Dr.Fessel]

http://www.southtownstar.com/news/2381990,stacy-peterson-body-in-peoria-061110.article


June 11, 2010
HERALD NEWS

State police still believe the tip that sent them downstate in search of Stacy Peterson is solid, sources say, but have held off on digging for her body for nearly a week now.

The operation to locate the missing Bolingbrook mother on a farm outside Peoria halted Saturday evening and has yet to resume, said Master Sgt. Tom Burek, a spokesman for the state police.

Burek went on to say state police have no timetable for getting back to business on the downstate Dunlap property.

Despite the lack of activity, a source close to the investigation said state police are extremely confident that Stacy's body is buried in that area.

 

[Peliman]

ETA
It's possible that the continued existence of the Club was set up in someone's will or as a trust or something along those lines.

If anyone knows who owns the Sportsman's Club, please let us know. (eta: while following TOS of course.)

Hi Noway, I can't speak for this sportsman's club setup but I can speculate it was a private gun club which probably has a charter making each member a partial owner of the club with any fees being paid from dues.

I've read it was used for skeet shooting BUT if the members agreed and were licensed with a Federal Firearms license and had a license to own an automatic weapon. They could legally fire it on their own property, usually at targets. (I/E) Milk bottles, targets. I would assume many members also used the club to sight in their newest laser sighted hand gun etc.

The setup and charter allowing all members partial ownership gives them some legality in firing those weapons on their own land. I doubt very much hunting went on there and it appears to be private. Someone probably had to be invited to join or be a guest. The Tax bill was paid by the named member but this is my guess based on past info from other Gun Clubs I'm aware of.

 

[Noway]

Hi Noway, I can't speak for this sportsman's club setup but I can speculate it was a private gun club which probably has a charter making each member a partial owner of the club with any fees being paid from dues.

I've read it was used for skeet shooting BUT if the members agreed and were licensed with a Federal Firearms license and had a license to own an automatic weapon. They could legally fire it on their own property, usually at targets. (I/E) Milk bottles, targets. I would assume many members also used the club to sight in their newest laser sighted hand gun etc.

The setup and charter allowing all members partial ownership gives them some legality in firing those weapons on their own land. I doubt very much hunting went on there and it appears to be private. Someone probably had to be invited to join or be a guest. The Tax bill was paid by the named member but this is my guess based on past info from other Gun Clubs I'm aware of.

There is a bit about the club in this article.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-06-07/news/ct-met-0608-peterson-search-20100607_1_kickapoo-creek-drew-peterson-blue-barrel

Members of the Big Hollow Sportsman's Club, which is next to the property where authorities searched over the weekend, were puzzled by the search, saying Drew Peterson was never a member.

"All of us are shocked. This is a really quiet, small community," said K. Reed Landmark, a member of the group.

The club, where about 15 members gather each week to shoot clay pigeons, sits on about 10 acres along Kickapoo Creek, accessible via a narrow gravel road that is blocked by an entrance gate. All of the garbage bins at the club are blue barrels, said Landmark, who has been a member of the 38-year-old club since 1979.

The only way to reach the site where investigators were digging is via the club's remote drive, Landmark said. The club gave police a roster of its members, he said.

Longtime member Bill Russell said he's studied a photo of Drew Peterson and doesn't believe he hung around the club, even as a guest.

And more in this one.

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/stacy.peterson.body.2.1734363.html

State Police started searching the remote area near a private shooting range in Dunlap, Ill. on Saturday morning.

"It's very remote. Very thick with timber and grasses," Burek said. "Obviously, because of the rain today, it's extremely muddy."

If you're right and they did shoot automatic weapons, maybe there is some connection that way to Drew. I wonder if any members of LE are members there.

 

[Leila]

BBM and Steve C seemed to be by DP side even when finding Kathleen Savio that night in the dry bath tub.............helped DP out then and maybe again. Didn't Steve C owe allot of money to DP??? (gambling?)

There's been rumors that Steve Carcerano had gambling debts that DP helped him clear up. Steve Carcerano's defense of DP wasn't logical considering the circumstances.

There was a very strange situation, in which Geraldo was broadcasting from Bolingbrook and he had several members of Kathleen Savio's family and Steve Carcerano to interview. Geraldo interviewed one of Kathleen's relatives, and then turned to Steve Carcerano for his story of what happened the night Kathleen's body was discovered. During that interview, one of Kathleen's relatives interrupted Steve to say words to the effect of..........."we've never heard this story before!" It was a tense moment.

 

[Leila]

A couple of days ago Chicoliving asked that we start a new thread if and when the search is resumed, as this one is getting too long. I'm wondering if we should start a new thread, and possible two new threads.

I think we should have one new thread devoted to maps and property ownership of the search site, which would provide us with easy reference if and when the search resumes.

The second thread could be for discussion of the new lead in the search for Stacy. This would be where we would put links to news articles, photos, and discuss what's happening, or isn't happening, with the search, like this thread.

I'd be happy to start the new threads if everyone thinks we should.

 

[faefrost]

So would one of those GPR devices hit on a plastic barrel?

ETA: and just a side thought - if he needed help to move it to his vehicle I would think he would need help to move it out.....and to move it to wherever it went ...JMOO

It depends. From my understanding what it is really showing is changes in density which reveal objects under the soil. Then the shape or pattern of those density changes is what reveals man made objects vs naturally occurring ones. For example a line of greater density several inches wide and running perfectly straight for several feet before making a 90 degree turn is almost always a man made wall of foundation. Metal is the easy one since it reflects the radar. But a plastic barrel would be a large less dense object or void. That should show up as well, just not as clearly as a metal drum would. I don't think they can very effectively search a vast area of ground looking for a void, but with a known starting area they can probably find it if it is there.

 

[Cherry Baby]

I'd be happy to start the new threads if everyone thinks we should.

I think that's a brilliant idea!

 

[closeobserver]

It depends. From my understanding what it is really showing is changes in density which reveal objects under the soil. Then the shape or pattern of those density changes is what reveals man made objects vs naturally occurring ones. For example a line of greater density several inches wide and running perfectly straight for several feet before making a 90 degree turn is almost always a man made wall of foundation. Metal is the easy one since it reflects the radar. But a plastic barrel would be a large less dense object or void. That should show up as well, just not as clearly as a metal drum would. I don't think they can very effectively search a vast area of ground looking for a void, but with a known starting area they can probably find it if it is there.

There was some speculation about the possibility that D.P. dissolved the body in some chemical. Some research showed it takes about 3 days to dissolve the body in this method (ties in nice with the 3 day head clearing trip). If this is the case, he would not have dug a grave but rather a hole to pour the remaining solution. The barrel could be or not be part of the burial site.