Possible Explanations for Inconsistencies in Case

Discussion in 'Darlie Routier' started by HeartofTexas, Jul 26, 2005.

  1. HeartofTexas

    HeartofTexas New Member

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    I just got finished reading the entirety of the 13-page "Darlie Supporters and Darin Routier" and was once again reminded of some of the oddities about the events of that night. While reading everything, my mind started piecing together some of the oddities and came up the following possible explanation. I thought I would run it by you seasoned Darlie experts to see where the holes are (and I have a feeling there are many!).

    Ignoring everything that happened prior to this point, my scenario begins as follows: Darlie thinks she has killed the two boys, goes about her other duties like possibly planting the sock, cutting the screen, etc., and then heads to the sink to cut her own neck. After cutting herself, she decides she needs to now head back over to the couch to lay down, since the story she's created involves her being attacked on the couch. On her way to the couch, from the kitchen, Darlie discovers that Damon is not yet dead. She panics and then starts struggling with him, is holding him down with her right arm and reaches for the knife with her left hand and begins stabbing him again. The only problem is, she isn't as handy with the knife in her left hand and accidentally stabs herself pretty deeply in the forearm (possibly to the bone, although reports seem to vary on this), at which point the unexpected pain causes her to scream out in agony. The scream awakens Darin, who comes flying downstairs in the nude. Upon realizing Darin is downstairs, Darlie quickly drops the knife on the carpet and acts like she's just discovered this gruesome scene herself. Darin sees Devon (but not Damon), quickly assesses that something heinous has just happened, and tells Darlie to call 911. At that point, Darin runs back upstairs to put on his pants, not wanting the police or paramedics to see him in the nude, and then runs back downstairs to help until the police, etc., arrive.

    What could this possible scenario answer:

    (1) Why were there two different stories on whether Darin was nude or wearing pants when he came downstairs.

    (2) How did Darlie get the deep wound on her right arm.

    (3) Why was Damon still alive when paramedics arrived

    (4) How did the knife outline get on the carpet

    (5) Why did Darin sound more visibly shaken on the 911 call, when Darlie only sounded hysterical in a phony way

    (6) Why did Darlie not kill Damon before cutting herself.

    (7) Why did Darlie stay away from Damon while awaiting the police.

    (8) What awakened Darin.

    (9) Why do we possibly hear Darin coming down the stairs in the 911 call.

    IF, and obviously that's a big if, any of the above could be true, it would also explain why Darin is truly and visibly upset during the events that night but then pretty quickly (hours?) goes into defense of Darlie. In the beginning Darin would only have been operating out of pure shock at seeing the "killing field" and carnage that awaited him when he got downstairs. However, later, as he sat on the curb and even later saw Darlie still alive at the hospital, with varying degrees of superficial wounds and possibly life-threatening wounds, Darin could have realized Darlie was probably involved. At that point, I would imagine Darin went back to earlier events of that night, where there may have been a fight between them (there are so many reports of what went on that night prior to the murders that I truly don't know which one to pick... but for the sake of this story, I've picked the one where Darlie asks for a separation). Darin remembers Darlie saying she's going to leave him, and Darin, tired of all of Darlie's hysterical pronouncements, tells her that's fine... go ahead and leave me. Darlie, shocked at Darin actually saying it's okay for her to leave, has to up the ante so now says, "and I'll take the boys with me and you'll never see them again". Darin says there's no way she can keep the boys from her and storms off to bed angry and tired of all the fighting. As Darin remembers all of this, guilt starts to set in... and he remembers other recent events, like the recent time he came home from work and Darlie told him she wanted to kill herself, and he's reminded of how down and depressed she's been, etc. Darin feels like he's somehow contributed to what happened that night and makes a decision to defend her even though he knows she's most likely involved. At this point, though, he's already lost 2 sons... and the prospect of also losing his wife, and the mother of his remaining child, seems more than he can bear. So at that point, in his definitely scattered psyche, he makes a decision to defend her. From that point forward, the ball moves quickly and stories have to change on a dime to make everything work.

    Have at it! LOL!
     
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  3. Jeana (DP)

    Jeana (DP) Former Member

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    Once upon a time I would have taken a great deal of time trying to answer this post! LOL Don't have that kinda time now and my givachitter is broken. So, I'll bottom line it for you:

    The truth doesn't have versions and you don't have to have a good memory unless you're telling lies.

    Its been plain since day one that Darlie (and Darin) have lied about just about everything from the state of their marriage to their finances to the events of that night. The only reason to lie about something is if you're guilty. The overwhelming evidence in this case tells the truth that Darlie and Darin won't tell. She's where she needs to be. He'll pay for what he's done too - maybe just not in this lifetime.
     
  4. HeartofTexas

    HeartofTexas New Member

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    I agree with everything you said, Jeana! Once you start hearing the lies, everything you need to know is in front of you, so to speak.

    And I certainly understand your givachitter being broken! I almost didn't bother with this thread because the crime happened so many years ago (9 years), and it's been tossed around endlessly, but I had so many unanswered questions late last night when I finished reading the 13 pages that I said I could do this thread today, if it was still on my mind.

    I would have loved hearing your input because, after reading the 13 pages, you and some of the others had such incredible feedback and answers for RStJ that I was most impressed! But thanks for stopping in and at least offering your great sentence on truth and versions and memory and lies... that's a keeper! And, since I do think she's the one who committed the murders, and she's on Death Row, then justice has indeed been served. I would still love to know what really happened that night but, IMO, they both have too much at stake to ever tell the truth so I guess we'll never know.
     
  5. Jeana (DP)

    Jeana (DP) Former Member

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    Well just for laughs, I think she accidentally stabbed herself in the arm and dropped the knife on the carpet when that happened. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    I also think that Darlie stayed clear of Damon because in her mind if his blood wasn't on her, she could distance herself from stabbing him.
     
  6. Dani_T

    Dani_T New Member

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    I also don't have a lot of time to reply at the moment but a couple of quick things.

    Off the top of my head I don't see anything in the scenario above which could have been contradicted by the evidence itself- with the exception of
    1) the knife impression/imprint showed that it had been held point downward long enough for blood to pool there before it was put down.
    2) the knife had to end up on the countertop

    Also, not sure how to take into account Darin's testimony but at trial he admantly denies being naked downstairs.

    I'm still of the mind that it is unlikely that Darin would have just changed his mind 'on a dime' (as goody says) and decide to defend the woman who had just murdered his kids- especially from a state of panic and shock like he was in. IF it did happen like that then I would expect that as the arrest happened and the trial took place Darin's feelings of guilt would receed in the face of Darlie's callousness. I still just don't see it. But I do think he covered for her as best he could - because he truly wanted to believe she was innocent.
     
  7. Goody

    Goody New Member

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    The only thing I have to contribute is that the knife imprint was not near Damon's body location (where he died). So I think the knife imprint needs to be made sooner than you have it as would the wound to her arm since it is what supplied the blood to make the imprint. Also, let's not forget the bloody fingerprint on the end table behind the couch. She must have braced herself on that table somehow during the killings.
     
  8. cami

    cami Keep your fork......

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    I've stayed right out of these discussions as i don't know what to think of Darin. I had that vision one time that he came downstairs and he caught her at it but that was just a dream. Then there was the dream about the coat being thrown over me from behind. Could that symbolize Darin's hiding his head in the sand about Darlie's involvement I thought.

    In the past few days listening once again to that 911 call, I hear Darin's shock and panic that you refer to. It doesn't help me though, I still don't know if he sussed her out right away or if he gradually came to the realization that Darlie did this and by the time of the trial he had decided to help her/lie for her.
     
  9. Jeana (DP)

    Jeana (DP) Former Member

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    I don't believe Darin had anything to do with that night. I think Darlie did the entire thing all alone. She had ample time. I think Darin probably had plenty of "scams" that Darlie, et al could have nailed him for. Maybe they convinced him that Drake needed at least his father and I think that Darlie's family overwhelmed Darin and he doesn't have the spine to stand up for himself. I believe the combination of the two are what keeps his lips shut.
     
  10. HeartofTexas

    HeartofTexas New Member

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    I agree, Jeana. I think Darin's biggest crime is covering for Darlie which required lying every opportunity he got (which, BTW, I think comes pretty easily for Darin).
     
  11. Jeana (DP)

    Jeana (DP) Former Member

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    Beesy darlin, I realize that this case, especially after listening to the 911 tape over and over, its emotionally draining. However, I would seriously appreciate it if you wouldn't ever think that any of us regulars on this forum could possibly forget what those two beautiful boys went through. Quite frankly, its insulting.
     
  12. HeartofTexas

    HeartofTexas New Member

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    Because I think "it's his only crime" as it relates to this crime. That's not to say he hasn't done other things that Darlie can hold over his head. Maybe it's buying and selling drugs, or maybe it's stealing from his clients, or who knows what. I think Darlie is holding something over him but I don't really have a clue what. I could also be totally wrong... it's just my opinion.
     
  13. Dani_T

    Dani_T New Member

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    Good point about him being overwhelmed by the family... including his own when you look at Sarilda's involvement.
     
  14. Dani_T

    Dani_T New Member

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    No he didn't Beesy - he had around 5 minutes maximum before the paramedics arrived. He says he treated Devon for 2-4 of those minutes. He also claims to have gone to Damon (conflicting stories what he did there) and to have gone upstairs all before Waddell arrived at 3 minutes into the call. He went to Devon because he thought it was Devon who was injured when he first came down. Where did you get the 15 minutes from?

    Well with all due respect to you and Goody I just don't see any evidence for that (let alone the time for him to do it between his voice stamps on 911).

    If you haven't read my replies to Goody in the last few days please do so. There was ample reason for Darin to want Karen on the scene when he did.

    Terry is not a nurse. I don't get your point here?

    You are entirely justified saying that about Darlie but I don't know how you can say it about Darin. Darin has come downstairs and all everything he learns about what has happened is by listening to Darlie on the 911 call. If you listen to the call Darlie makes it clear at times Damon is alive- even if just barely. Darin on the other hand can't get a pulse out of Devon. If you have one child who IS alive and one who isn't which one are you going to try and revive? Especially when you think you have a wife who is going to aid the other one (even if she doesn't do that ultimately). If Darin had simply shrugged his shoulders about Devon and gone over to Damon we'd all be yelling 'why didn't you try and revive Devon! He was dead! Damon was alive!".

    No- there is plenty to see HER guilt. The evidence tells us that. There is no physical evidence at all that puts the knife in Darin's hand or has him as a accomplice in this. The only speculation you can make is because of his contradicting testimony.

    No Bessy he didn't. Damon could have lived for 8-9 minutes from the fatal wounds. Put 6 minutes into the 911 call and the arrival of the paramedics and you have 2-3 minutes BEFORE Darin came down when Damon could have received the fatal stabs.

    I understand your emotional reaction to all of this- we would all be blocks of stone if at times we didn't weep for those boys. But you need to get your evidence and chronology right and don't assume that those of us who believe Darin was innocent of any part IN the crime don't realise the horror of what happened, or take it seriously. And please don't also forget that whilst Damon was murdered so was little Devon. He had just as much right to be held and cared for as Damon.
     
  15. Jeana (DP)

    Jeana (DP) Former Member

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    And, while Darin was supposedly "covered" in blood . . .
    Darlie only had a few drops.
    I tend to believe someone trying to help the boys would have been covered.
    Its always been a HUGE sticking point with me that she didn't have more blood on her.
     
  16. Mary456

    Mary456 New Member

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    It's always been a big sticking point for me, too, DP. While Darlie had a lot of blood on her shirt, it was almost all her own (except for those pesky little ones on the shoulder & back area). Had she held those boys, tried to comfort them, tried to put pressure on their wounds, their blood would have been present on the body of her shirt.

    I believe they took around 25 samples from the front of her t-shirt, and none of them belonged to the boys. The Darlies say they should have tested every millimeter of blood on it, as well as every millimeter of blood in the entire house. I say...if they did that, Darlie would still be sitting in a Dallas jail, plotting revenge because her right to a speedy trial was violated.
     
  17. beesy

    beesy myspace.com/beesy_boo

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  18. Goody

    Goody New Member

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    Actually it is not my theory. I picked it up from another forum. I have never tried to compare it to the 911 call though, so you may be correct that it could not have happened that way.



    It would have made more sense if he had gone after her before police arrived. Or even before the ambulances arrived, but once they did, his need for additional help starts losing ground. His focus should have been on his children, not his friends. It is the same thing the Ramseys did that make me distrust them.






    Yo
    I think Darin would have a stronger argument if we could hear him telling her to bring him towels, not to wet them, asking if Damon was okay, etc. It is hard to believe him without any supporting evidence in his favor at all.



    Well, that and the fact that he doesn't act like a grieving father. After their deaths, Darin seems to be focused on how to profit from them. He openly discusses with people how big their story is going to be, how Darlie is going to write the story so they can cut the middleman out and make more money for themselves, etc. I would have liked to see the D.A. put more of these witnesses on the stand. Only two days after Darlie's arrest, Darin and Darlie Kee (probably at the request of Darin) sign a deal to have their story shopped and shortly after that they sell away the rights (as if totally defeating the purpose) to CWB who just happens to be living with Sarilda and family. The big money plans were dashed by the conviction but if she ever wins an appeal and gets out or gets a new trial and is acquitted, you can bet your bottom dollar that everybody gets a piece of that pie. Just as you say that there is enough known to support Darin wanting to get a nurse friend on the scene, I say there is enough information to support "money" as the motive and a not so regular way of getting it. Maybe it is far out for your run of the mill young parents, but I am not so sure it is that far out for a a couple of entreapeneurs who typically take risks.


    I'll let you guys do the emotion thing as it applies to who should remember the boys' pain that night. I would like to address the lack of emotional response both Darlie and Darin gave the children though. I think Beesy is right about that. Neither tried to comfort their dead children, esp Damon. Darin even tells us that while the paramedics are waiting to come in, just seconds before they do, Darin slips over to Damon and tried to take his pulse, then feeling the boy has none goes back to Devon whom he already knows is beyond help. His description makes me think he slipped over to Damon when Waddell and Walling were not looking to see if Damon was still alive or not. He didn't want them to save the boy. It seems to me if he wanted them to save him, once he knew he couldn't help Devon, the natural choice would have been to go help Damon. He knew by then that Darlie wasn't doing it and there was no one else to do but him. Instead he just tries his pulse and goes O, well, and then goes back to where he was sitting before. That does not paint an image of a concerned parent to me. If he was innocent, that might suggest that he had figured out who did it by then and wanted to know how bad the damages were. If he was guilty, that might suggest that he wanted to make sure that Damon couldn't tell anyone what had happened.

    And why does a guy who studied first aid for 7 years in a row, perform CPR on one child and not the other? Why didn't he cry out that Damon had no pulse? To get the paramedics in there?
     
  19. Dani_T

    Dani_T New Member

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    First off- if you see our discussion on here as an attack then you have very think skin Beesy. Need I remind you that I have gone out of my way to assist you in the last few days? I've sent you wav files 3-4 times, I've attempted to respond to all your posts.

    We all discuss on here and yes we sometimes disagree with each other. I've just written an extensive post to Goody disagreeing with her quite strongly but I seriously doubt she is going to throw a temper tantrum and accuse me of attacking her.



    Devon was attended by Paramedic Koschak as well. He was moved and all his vital signs were checked. Do you see the signs of his rendering aid? If you are expecting to see a clear handprint in blood on Devon's chest then you won't find it. I doubt it would ever be as clear cut as that.

    What were they? What could he be doing? Standing around doing nothing whilst the paramedics were trying to revive Damon and aid Darlie. What would you have him doing?



    No father is just going to shurg his shoulders and say "Oh well he is dead" within a 3-4 minute period.

    And yes I do think Damon was alone and dying- because his mother who killed him didn't want him to survive and wasn't going to aid him. I believe his father was in a state of desperation and was trying to breathe air into his oldest sons lungs and desperately trying to get his wife to help his middle son.

    [/quote]

    My facts are right. The phone call was short of 6 minutes but the paramedics were not in the house before the phone call ended. In fact I doubt Walling was in the house before the phone call ended (and my doubt is based on an extensive amount of work I put in a while ago to getting the time line right). You'll notice my words were Put 6 minutes into the 911 call and the arrival of the paramedics.

    I am working on the premise that Damon was stabbed initially, did not die, Darlie attacked him again before the 911 call and thats when the 8-9 minutes starts.

    Oh good grief!!!!! It was a typo. If you read my posts you will find they are full of them!. I don't have the time or energy to correct them.

    We are not all out to get you! Geesh, the politness of this board is nothing compared to the knock out drag out battles we have had at other boards.
     
  20. beesy

    beesy myspace.com/beesy_boo

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    .
    [/QUOTE] I know that the paramedics came to the house AFTER she hung up the phone. I've said that many times. Waddel and Walling did a cursory search and then told the EMT's they could come in. Darlie was not on the phone anymore. I've known that. Did I say something different? If so, it was just scattered brains because I've always known. I'm working on the premise that Damon was stabbed and survived, then she did her thing, called 911 cause most likely she thought she was bleeding to death. I'm sure she thought Damon was dead. I think she sees him crawling while on the phone with 911 she killed him then. So I'm starting my 8-9 mins from there. Doesn't mean it's wrong, as you said its a discussion. Doesn't mean my timeline is wrong or my facts are wrong. It's just a theory. Nobody but Darlie and Darin know. I am just saying what makes sense to me and you're saying what makes sense to you. So why are you saying I don't have the facts? Waddell comes in at 3:42, time is tick tock tick tock...he guards the house instead of helping the victims. He's doing his job. She finally gets off that dang phone, Walling arrives somewhere in there and they do a quick search and call the paramedics in. Meanwhile the 8-9 min clock is tick tock tick tock. He rushes in just in time for Damon to die.That's my timeline and from everything I've read from here, all 4 books, well 3 really, Chris' is not a book, and the website, I feel mine can work. I think your theory is pushing it if she stabbed him before she called 911, especially if you agree she was off the phone before the medics got there. Not that it couldn't happen, its just a tight squeeze.
     
  21. Dani_T

    Dani_T New Member

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    I'll have to check but from memory I thnk I worked out that the longest break between Darins voice before Waddell arrived is about 30 seconds.


    He did got to get Karen before the police arrived. He met Waddell outside and went back in with him. And unless the place was swarming with paramedics before he went to get Karen (which it was not- there were only two) he still needed help. I don't think his focus was on his friends- but ingetting help for his family. There was nothing he could be doing for them once the paramedics arrived- but he could get them more help.

    Well there is a lot on the call from him which we can't hear. Most of his is laballed 'unintelligible'. I do hear him yelling for her to get somebody (sounding impatient) and to 'get in here'. As for the towels I don't remember his testifying to ever actually using them (might be wrong). What is clear is that what we can make out from him is supporting rather than accusatory.


    Where do you get that he shrugged and went back to Devon? According to his vol statement and his testimony he checked on Devon
    24 hanging on at that time.
    25 A. Yes, sir. Damon was laying on his
    1 stomach, and he was laying along the wall.
    2 Q. Why didn't you roll him over, and
    3 start CPR on him?
    4 A. Because I was always taught that if
    5 you have a back injury, you are not supposed to roll them
    6 over, because you could make the injuries worse.
    7 Q. Okay.
    8 A. I tried to see if I could get a pulse,
    9 but I couldn't get anything. But by that time, people
    10 were starting to pile into the house.



    He was crying out to get help- to get somebody. It's on the call. Also see above for a reason perhaps why he did not perform CPR on Damon
     

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