Possible Explanations for Inconsistencies in Case

beesy said:
.
I'm working on the premise that Damon was stabbed and survived, then she did her thing, called 911 cause most likely she thought she was bleeding to death. I'm sure she thought Damon was dead. I think she sees him crawling while on the phone with 911 she killed him then. So I'm starting my 8-9 mins from there. Doesn't mean it's wrong, as you said its a discussion.

Yes, it is a theory. But I don't see from the 911 call how it happens. You dont carry on as normal on the phone as she did whilst stabbing your child. In fact I don't see how you could still be holding the phone whilst holding your child down and stabbing him.

That's just my opinion.


I think your theory is pushing it if she stabbed him before she called 911, especially if you agree she was off the phone before the medics got there. Not that it couldn't happen, its just a tight squeeze.
Tight perhaps - but still with a minute or two left over.

I'm sorry for being a brat, but I felt really stupid and hurt. I felt I wrote something from the heart and it was misunderstood and I was embarrassed. [/b][/color]

There is no need to feel hurt. We all disagree with each other on here all the time. And we all misunderstand each other all the time to (for example you have misunderstood a few things I have said on this thread).

Just don't take it so personally in the future because we really are not out to get you or anyone else.
 
beesy said:
_________________
First of all I said "forgive me if I sound blunt"...and secondlyI was referring to everybody in general, including myself. I didn't even say the people on this forum. That is very insulting to me that you assume I was attacking ya'll. Totally floored me! I suppose since you're the moderator you can say things rude to me, but I'll get banned. If I'd meant the people on here, I would have named names. I'm not shy. We've all talked about this before..how the boys have become less important than Darlie. If you misunderstood my statement and were insulted, hope you have it straight now. I think you owe me an apology, but I won't hold my breath. In fact I guess I should start packing up.


Give me a break Beesy.
 
Jeana (DP) said:
Give me a break Beesy.
:razz: Just had to do that. Now that's out of my system :truce:


beesy is going shopping for thicker skin. I think Wal-Mart sells it.
 
beesy said:
:razz: Just had to do that. Now that's out of my system :truce:


beesy is going shopping for thicker skin. I think Wal-Mart sells it.

They do. It's in the same aisle as the glop you use to waterproof your basement :)))))
 
Mary456 said:
They do. It's in the same aisle as the glop you use to waterproof your basement :)))))
too close to sea level here, we don't have basements. must keep looking.....Plus beesy was looking for something not so so close to glop:)
 
Dani_T said:
Yes, it is a theory. But I don't see from the 911 call how it happens. You dont carry on as normal on the phone as she did whilst stabbing your child. In fact I don't see how you could still be holding the phone whilst holding your child down and stabbing him.
Well, Darlie wasn't chatting with a girlfriend about a movie they saw. And she wasn't acting normal, Darlie normal or anybody normal. Maybe it is more my heart than my head telling me this, but I truly believe she gave him that final fatal wound while on the phone. Darlie is not normal. Its hard for us to look at things the same way she and Darin do, we aren't like that(hopefully)! With a case like this you must try to think as Darlie did and Darin too. IMO

Tight perhaps - but still with a minute or two left over.

I know you don't like my theory, but do you think it could happen? I think yours could as I said, tight, but I think it could. Do you think mine could work? I mean I know you have a problem with when I think the final stab took place and how much Darin was involved. I think he was very involved, but I can step back and look at your theory and I think it could work. Don't think that's what happened, but it could work

There is no need to feel hurt. We all disagree with each other on here all the time. And we all misunderstand each other all the time to (for example you have misunderstood a few things I have said on this thread).

Just don't take it so personally in the future because we really are not out to get you or anyone else.
Ok thak you.....:blowkiss:
 
Dani_T said:
Yes, it is a theory. But I don't see from the 911 call how it happens. You dont carry on as normal on the phone as she did whilst stabbing your child. In fact I don't see how you could still be holding the phone whilst holding your child down and stabbing him
Did she have to hold him down? I don't know how active he was at that point. Where there any bruises on his back or arms? As long and as confusing that call was, she could have easily put the phone right as she stabbed him. If she kept it close then we'd still hear her
What were they? What could he be doing? Standing around doing nothing whilst the paramedics were trying to revive Damon and aid Darlie. What would you have him doing?
I think all I want Darin to be doing is trying to get in as close to the boy as the paramedics would let him. Touch him, tell him he loved him. Say that to Devon too. He was dead, but maybe he could still hear. He didn't even ask about the boys at the hospital, where had they been taken, was Devon still at home..? When my son died, I wanted to know every second where he was. It was heartbreaking when I found out he'd been taken by the coroner already. Why didn't he ask?


And yes I do think Damon was alone and dying- because his mother who killed him didn't want him to survive and wasn't going to aid him.
Yes, but thank goodness the paramedic held him, funny name can't remember.


You say all Darin did was cover for her? So do you mean just by running his mouth or that he helped wipe up blood, tossing pillows around, or you think he didn't do any of that.
 
HeartofTexas said:
I just got finished reading the entirety of the 13-page "Darlie Supporters and Darin Routier" and was once again reminded of some of the oddities about the events of that night. While reading everything, my mind started piecing together some of the oddities and came up the following possible explanation. I thought I would run it by you seasoned Darlie experts to see where the holes are (and I have a feeling there are many!).

Ignoring everything that happened prior to this point, my scenario begins as follows: Darlie thinks she has killed the two boys, goes about her other duties like possibly planting the sock, cutting the screen, etc., and then heads to the sink to cut her own neck. After cutting herself, she decides she needs to now head back over to the couch to lay down, since the story she's created involves her being attacked on the couch. On her way to the couch, from the kitchen, Darlie discovers that Damon is not yet dead. She panics and then starts struggling with him, is holding him down with her right arm and reaches for the knife with her left hand and begins stabbing him again. The only problem is, she isn't as handy with the knife in her left hand and accidentally stabs herself pretty deeply in the forearm (possibly to the bone, although reports seem to vary on this), at which point the unexpected pain causes her to scream out in agony. The scream awakens Darin, who comes flying downstairs in the nude. Upon realizing Darin is downstairs, Darlie quickly drops the knife on the carpet and acts like she's just discovered this gruesome scene herself. Darin sees Devon (but not Damon), quickly assesses that something heinous has just happened, and tells Darlie to call 911. At that point, Darin runs back upstairs to put on his pants, not wanting the police or paramedics to see him in the nude, and then runs back downstairs to help until the police, etc., arrive.

What could this possible scenario answer:

(1) Why were there two different stories on whether Darin was nude or wearing pants when he came downstairs.

(2) How did Darlie get the deep wound on her right arm.

(3) Why was Damon still alive when paramedics arrived

(4) How did the knife outline get on the carpet

(5) Why did Darin sound more visibly shaken on the 911 call, when Darlie only sounded hysterical in a phony way

(6) Why did Darlie not kill Damon before cutting herself.

(7) Why did Darlie stay away from Damon while awaiting the police.

(8) What awakened Darin.

(9) Why do we possibly hear Darin coming down the stairs in the 911 call.

IF, and obviously that's a big if, any of the above could be true, it would also explain why Darin is truly and visibly upset during the events that night but then pretty quickly (hours?) goes into defense of Darlie. In the beginning Darin would only have been operating out of pure shock at seeing the "killing field" and carnage that awaited him when he got downstairs. However, later, as he sat on the curb and even later saw Darlie still alive at the hospital, with varying degrees of superficial wounds and possibly life-threatening wounds, Darin could have realized Darlie was probably involved. At that point, I would imagine Darin went back to earlier events of that night, where there may have been a fight between them (there are so many reports of what went on that night prior to the murders that I truly don't know which one to pick... but for the sake of this story, I've picked the one where Darlie asks for a separation). Darin remembers Darlie saying she's going to leave him, and Darin, tired of all of Darlie's hysterical pronouncements, tells her that's fine... go ahead and leave me. Darlie, shocked at Darin actually saying it's okay for her to leave, has to up the ante so now says, "and I'll take the boys with me and you'll never see them again". Darin says there's no way she can keep the boys from her and storms off to bed angry and tired of all the fighting. As Darin remembers all of this, guilt starts to set in... and he remembers other recent events, like the recent time he came home from work and Darlie told him she wanted to kill herself, and he's reminded of how down and depressed she's been, etc. Darin feels like he's somehow contributed to what happened that night and makes a decision to defend her even though he knows she's most likely involved. At this point, though, he's already lost 2 sons... and the prospect of also losing his wife, and the mother of his remaining child, seems more than he can bear. So at that point, in his definitely scattered psyche, he makes a decision to defend her. From that point forward, the ball moves quickly and stories have to change on a dime to make everything work.

Have at it! LOL!
:clap: All from reading 13 pages. It takes me forever to wrap my head around this and as soon as I have to deal with other things, I have to start all over. :confused: You naturals are lucky.

I've always believed Darin made at least two trips downstairs - one nude, then in jeans.

Your idea about the knife being in her left hand, then being placed on the carpet is supported in the transcripts - indirectly, I believe. I'm too sore and tired to find the link. If memory serves me correctly, Mulder adds support to the prosecution's theory in his closing (could have been before closing). Is Darin right-handed or left-handed?

Now, about the neck slicing...you think she did that at the sink...why? Think about that necklace embedded in her neck - look at how high up the incision starts on her neck.

What about the bruises? Do you think she did that without help?
 
Accordn2me, I think she sliced her neck at the sink for 2 reasons. One, there wasn't blood on the couch, which surely there would have been some if she had cut her neck there. Secondly, I don't think she would have needed to make up the part about wetting the towels in the sink if she hadn't feared her own blood would be found there.

And yes, I think Darlie's bruising (on the arms) was done after the fact and by Darlie. I think Darlie pretty much did things as she went along and saw a need to either add or substract things relating to what happened that night.
 
The necklace embedded in the wound makes me doubt that she cut her own throat.

About blood on the couch:

K. Long:

16 Q. All right. And can you tell us what
17 blood samples that you obtained out there on June 11th?
18 A. I collected three from the carpet.
25 A. One from a chair, it appears.



16 A. And then also, took one sample from
17 one couch in the family room, and also three samples from
18 another couch in the family room.
19 Q. All right. Now, the couch where you
20 took the one sample, is that the couch closest to the

21 windows facing the back yard?
22 A. Yes, sir.

23 Q. Okay. The other three, would they be
24 from the couch that is nearest to the kitchen area?
25 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.

Judith Floyd:

25 Q. Now, did you do any testing on the
1 maroon pillow?
2 A. On the pillow case, yes.
3 Q. Okay. That was maroon in color?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Okay. And the results of that were
6 what?
7 A. I had three stains from the pillow
8 case, one stain matched Damon Routier, two matched Darlie
9 Routier.
10 Q. Okay. Those were on opposite sides of
11 that pillow, weren't they?
12 A. I don't know. I did not cut the
13 stains from the pillow case.
14 Q. Okay. So you can't tell where they
15 originated?
16 A. Right.

Carolyn Van Winkle:

2 Q. On the couch here, items 52, 53 and
3 54?
4 A. Darlie.
5 Q. The two samples here on the cut out
6 carpet behind this couch?
7 A. Darlie.
8 Q. The two samples here on the carpet by
9 the chair?
10 A. Darlie.
11 Q. Again, on the carpet near the chair,
12 105s?
13 A. I don't believe I tested those, but
14 those --
15 Q. -- reflect Darlie also?
16 A. Reflect Darlie.
 
accordn2me said:
The necklace embedded in the wound makes me doubt that she cut her own throat.


I watched a television program about a woman whose husband stabbed her like 50 times. She said she didn't even feel it due to the adrenaline pumping in her system. For anyone who thinks that it would hurt too much for her to do this to herself, I would point them to stories like that one. I can imagine that the stress of what Darlie did in a few minutes' time that evening would have provided her with enough adrenaline so as to make it virtually painfree - at least long enough.
 
No, it's not the pain that gives me pause. It's the necklace.

Look at where the wound starts on her neck. A long necklace doesn't hang there. If Darlie cut her own throat, my guess is she was lying down. I just don't see getting the necklace embedded in the wound if she was standing when the cut was made.

Do you know if Darin is right-handed or left-handed?
 
accordn2me said:
No, it's not the pain that gives me pause. It's the necklace.

Look at where the wound starts on her neck. A long necklace doesn't hang there. If Darlie cut her own throat, my guess is she was lying down. I just don't see getting the necklace embedded in the wound if she was standing when the cut was made.

Do you know if Darin is right-handed or left-handed?


It could have been picked up by the knife and dragged along the wound getting tangled, but I see what you're trying to say. Its just my opinion that Darin didn't do it or it would have been way worse.

I'm not sure if he's right or left handed. Someone else probably knows!! ;)
 
The blood found on the couches was not found where she laid. On the couch where she laid, Damon's blood was found near the foot, I believe. The pillows you mentioned were on the floor, I think. Admittedly it has been a while, but she couldn't have been bleeding as she laid or even as she jumped up and struggled with attackers as she claims in her hynosis report.

Even if you believe her neck wound wasn't bleeding yet or if you buy the notion that the skin overlapped the thin slice preventing it from bleeding, you have that arm wound that was dripping blood everywhere. Any movement should have sent droplets from that arm flying or just plain dripping downward or smearing across the vinyl. You can see in the photos that the blood on the sofas is on the ends and the bottom portion (kick area), not on the back or cushions, not on her pillow, though I think they might have found one drop on her pillow. One drop just isn't enough for wounds that made the mess hers did in that house. You have to remember that the boys were not mobile so 90% of the blood there is hers.

And she stood for a long time at that sink doing something. We know that because her arm bled drop on top of drop all over the floor there.
 
accordn2me said:
Do you know if Darin is right-handed or left-handed?
I think they are both right handed. Seems to me it came up at trial. You might check his testimony.

But I don't think it matters that much. The cut slopes downward just like self inflicted neck wounds do. She could have used either hand to make the cut. Where there is a will there is a way. She would not have had to hold the knife in the traditional way by the handle. She could have turned it in whatever direction, on whatever angle she thought would make people think she could not have done it. Sometimes things seem to make perfect sense until you do them and look back, only to say "that was dumb." I don't think you will be able to come up with anything that is going to show that she could not have cut herself.

Personally, I think the only thing that surprised her about that cut was that it went so deep so fast. She was probably trying to create a slash because that is the only thing she felt comfortable with attempting, and because she felt it would be enough to prove her "innocence." That downward slope works against her though. Most of those who tried it before her seem to have the same downward slope.
 
Do you have necklace sorta like the one Darlie was wearing? I think it was one of those gold S chains about 16" long. Who knows? I'm assuming it had some type of pendant on it...again, does anyone know for sure? Anyway, try it: hang something similar around your neck. See where it hangs?

I can't see because my book is not and never will be here! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA
*pity party over*

Now maybe another poster could present a likely scenario where Darlie could be standing while she slices her throat, catching that necklace on the knife and embedding it into her neck. Just because I can't imagine it certainly doesn't mean it's not possible. Just like aliens. :razz:
 
accordn2me said:
Do you have necklace sorta like the one Darlie was wearing? I think it was one of those gold S chains about 16" long. Who knows? I'm assuming it had some type of pendant on it...again, does anyone know for sure? Anyway, try it: hang something similar around your neck. See where it hangs?

I can't see because my book is not and never will be here! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA
*pity party over*

Now maybe another poster could present a likely scenario where Darlie could be standing while she slices her throat, catching that necklace on the knife and embedding it into her neck. Just because I can't imagine it certainly doesn't mean it's not possible. Just like aliens. :razz:

What if she, inadvertently, pushed that necklace into her own wound with the cloth she held to her neck? I believe the hospital personnel testified that it fell off when she removed the bandage that the paramedics had used on Darlie. I believe she was standing at the kitchen sink when she made that neck cut due to all the blood that was shed there and the angle of the cut. It just appears to me anyway that that type of cut would not be made by an intruder had Darlie been lying on the sofa asleep. I think it would have been more of a straight, deep cut across and not high up on the neck like that. Just my opinion though.

1 Q. All right. Was she in there any great
2 length of time?
3 A. She was in -- I had her in there
4 exactly 13 minutes.
5 Q. Okay. And then they take her off to
6 surgery?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Okay. Did you remove a necklace from
9 her neck?
10 A. Right. When the technicians pulled
11 the dressing off the wound on her neck, a chain was freed
12 around her neck. I took that off, set it aside, and
13 later, I believe, one of the other nurses handed that
14 over to the Rowlett Police Department.
15 Q. Okay. Was that under the gauze?
16 A. It was underneath the dressing the
17 paramedics had applied.
18
19 (Whereupon, the following
20 mentioned item was
21 marked for
22 identification only
23 after which time the
24 proceedings were
25 resumed on the record
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
902

1 in open court, as
2 follows:)
3
4
5 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
6 Q. Okay. Let me show you what's been
7 marked as State's Exhibit 26. Does this appear to be the
8 necklace?
9 A. This looks similar to the necklace. I
10 couldn't tell you if it was exactly the same one or not.
11 Q. Okay. And it was unattached?
12 A. It was unattached.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. I didn't have to undo it.
15 Q. Okay.
16
17 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Judge, I would
18 like to enter this for record purposes, at this time.
19 THE COURT: State's Exhibit what?

http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-31.php

Well that's not too informative is it? It's not clear if it was embedded in the wound or not or whether they had to use a little bit of force to remove it.
 
Goody said:
The blood found on the couches was not found where she laid. On the couch where she laid, Damon's blood was found near the foot, I believe. The pillows you mentioned were on the floor, I think. Admittedly it has been a while, but she couldn't have been bleeding as she laid or even as she jumped up and struggled with attackers as she claims in her hynosis report.

Even if you believe her neck wound wasn't bleeding yet or if you buy the notion that the skin overlapped the thin slice preventing it from bleeding, you have that arm wound that was dripping blood everywhere. Any movement should have sent droplets from that arm flying or just plain dripping downward or smearing across the vinyl. You can see in the photos that the blood on the sofas is on the ends and the bottom portion (kick area), not on the back or cushions, not on her pillow, though I think they might have found one drop on her pillow. One drop just isn't enough for wounds that made the mess hers did in that house. You have to remember that the boys were not mobile so 90% of the blood there is hers.

And she stood for a long time at that sink doing something. We know that because her arm bled drop on top of drop all over the floor there.
Where was the blood found on the pillow and was it cast off or spatter or what? Is Darlie saying that was the pillow she was sleeping on? Where do you think the pillow was during the attacks?
 
accordn2me said:
Do you have necklace sorta like the one Darlie was wearing? I think it was one of those gold S chains about 16" long. Who knows? I'm assuming it had some type of pendant on it...again, does anyone know for sure? Anyway, try it: hang something similar around your neck. See where it hangs?
The necklace was more of a choker type necklace and it had a diamond on it
 
beesy said:
Where was the blood found on the pillow and was it cast off or spatter or what? Is Darlie saying that was the pillow she was sleeping on? Where do you think the pillow was during the attacks?
I don't remember. Maybe Dani does. Camilla is the best one with the blood evidence, but Dani knows it pretty well too. Maybe she will chime in here and give you an answer. Otherwise, check the trial testimony, blood experts and those who collected the blood evidence.
 

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