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Possible Match, NamUs case UP 15325

Discussion in 'Anna Christian Waters' started by Cubby, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    Let me first say this is more of a longshot due to distance between where Anna was last seen and where the remains were found in Imperial County, CA. However, because they belong to a 4 to 5 year old female and the post mortem interval is up to 50 years, we should attempt to get an official rule in or out.

    These partial remains were found in 1994, but not entered in Namus until June of this year.

    https://identifyus.org/en/cases/15325

    https://identifyus.org/en/cases/full_report/15325

    Dna is not available, but dentals are. Perhaps there is something notable in the dentals which can be used for an official rule out, or we can inquire as to when and if dna might be obtained.


    Is Doogie still around to submit? or should I? I would really prefer Doogie do it since he is in direct contact with Annasmom and family.
     
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  3. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    I texted Doogie asking him to check in here so this possible match can be submitted.
     
  4. smile22

    smile22 Live Laugh Love

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    Praying that this is not a match at all


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    I don't think it will be a match due to the distance between where Anna was last seen and the location these remains were found. It's more likely, imo, to be a missing child who resided closer to the area the remains were found. However, because the gender and age range are within our search criteria, I can't not submit it.

    I am getting ready to submit to both the MP side and the UP side now, since Doogie doesn't seem to be around since I posted this.

    I will update again after I have submitted.
     
  6. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    I sent an email to the NamUs case manager handling Anna's case and an email to the Imperial County coroners office. I couldn't find an email address for the San Mateo County sheriffs office, so I left a voice mail requesting an email address. Everyone got the same email message, so if I hear back from SMCO I'll send them the email also.
     
  7. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    I heard back from SMCSO almost immediately and sent the email to the detective who returned my call. Amazing they responded so quickly to a message left about Anna's case. I don't think it was more than 15 minutes after I left a message and my call was returned.


    I did mention there is no dna on the UP side, but I was aware California was in the process of trying to get DNA for all of their uid;s and that while that can be a time consuming process, perhaps there is an anomaly of some sort with the dentals that can rule out Anna. ..... That I just wanted to make sure they were aware of it and it was in the right hands.

    I don't expect this to be a match, but we have to give this case due diligence and not just presume a rule out.
     
  8. cutter99

    cutter99 Active Member

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    You rock Cubby!!!
     
  9. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    Thank you.
     
  10. smile22

    smile22 Live Laugh Love

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    Thanks cubby for all you do. Now it's wait time I feel in my heart this is not Anna


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  11. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    YW. I am hoping some kind of dental anomaly that we know Anna didn't have can rule out the possible match. It's much easier for the authorities to rule out than to rule in. For example, a few years ago a possible match that I submitted for a different case was ruled out by dating scars. Old surgery scars were able to make that determination.

    I'm not going to hang my hat on this being Anna. I don't think it's her, but because we don't have enough information to positively rule out ourselves, we have to turn it over to the authorities. I wouldn't hold up any other areas of investigation based on this PM, and hope no one else would either.
     
  12. smile22

    smile22 Live Laugh Love

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    I still think we need to look outside the box something in all of this somewhere has some meaning to it I wonder if a plea could be made for seeking answers without any repercussions from the people coming forward I have seen that before


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    You mean given immunity, right? I seem to recall Annasmom saying somewhere within the forum that the statute of limitations for kidnapping has long since passed.
     
  14. Annasmom

    Annasmom Active Member

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    FYI: The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children has services listed below:

    NCMEC works closely with the NamUs program to help ensure the most up-to-date and accurate information available is being used in this important initiative.
    NCMEC's Biometrics Team can assist law enforcement, medical examiners and coroners by:

    • Ensuring DNA has been collected and profiled from both missing children and cases of unknown children and searching against missing children family DNA reference samples in the Combined DNA Index System, known as CODIS.
    • Facilitating collection of dental records for forensic odontology coding on missing unknown children for upload to national databases including NamUs and NCIC.
    • Facilitating the collection and coding of fingerprints for entry into national databases.
    • Documenting all personal belongings found with a deceased child, such as jewelry and clothing, for dissemination to the public and law enforcement via posters to help identify an unknown child.
    • Searching and analyzing data for possible matches in the NCMEC missing child database as well as NamUs and NCIC.
     
  15. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    Thank you, Annasmom. I was aware NCMEC cooperated with NamUs. I know that dna is compared to dna, dentals to dentals. In some cases where the missing person and the unidentified person don't have the same identifiers to compare a manual comparison must be done. Since we have dna for one and only dentals for the other iirc a manual comparison must be done. I trust that the NCMEC contact, the NamUs contact and the detective who replied to my voice message are doing just that and I am sure they will take care of any necessary follow up in the future.
     
  16. Annasmom

    Annasmom Active Member

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    I contacted Donald Cahill, senior forensic case manager at the NCMEC, and he said [FONT=&quot] "When there is DNA from our case it is automatically entered into CODIS by the University of North Texas or whoever does the processing and that DNA is automatically compared to all cases of unidentified remains that has DNA entered. Our staff here at NCMEC continually request comparisons but do not notify family unless they get a “positive” reply from the lab." He said that he had [/FONT][FONT=&quot]submitted NamUs 15325 for a comparison but did not see any DNA in the report on that NamUs case. (As you have noted, Cubby.) I was glad to have a contact at the National Center, since I have not heard from them in some time.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    National Center for Missing & Exploited Children
    (703) 837-6210


    Show original message
    [/FONT]
     
  17. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    Glad you have a new contact, Annasmom. There is really nothing more we can do on our end regarding this possi ble match. DNA could be a long process as we know...I know I read somewhere that there is a law in CA requiring all unidentified persons have dna entered or an attempt is made to have it entered. What kind of time table that entails I don't know.

    In this case we want to determine whether a dental anomaly exists that could positively rule out Anna. The current options are A. Yes, a dental anomaly exists and Anna is added to a public rule out list attached to NamUs case file UP 15325 like we have seen other Namus case files or Option B.would be the knowledge that no dental anomaly exists to currently rule out Anna and we would have to wait for future dna analysis if and when dna becomes available.

    I may or may not have posted this before, if I have, please forgive the duplicate. It goes into a bit more detail from a coroners perspective.
    http://canyouidentifyme.org/WhatEveryMissingPersonInvestigatorMustKnow

    We may not have to wait for DNA if say the UID has missing baby teeth Anna had, or caries Anna didn't have. We won't know and we may be able to avoid a lengthy dna wait if the authorities would look at the dentals now.

    The authorities can even do this without a follow up message to any of us. All they need to do is update NamUs case 15325 with a rule out list.
     
  18. Dr. Doogie

    Dr. Doogie New Member

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    Hi, guys. I rarely stop by here anymore and it is fortunate that I did today. Cubby, I did not get your text message that you mentioned above. I will PM you my current info. I have nothing to offer that you folks are not already doing - keep up the good work!
     
  19. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    Thank you, Doogie. I will notate your contact info and call or text you my new contact info.
     
  20. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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