Possible Scenarios

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Unreals, Mar 21, 2011.

  1. Unreals

    Unreals New Member

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    I've been studying this case since the very beginning, but have only come to a few firm conclusions.

    1. I think it's almost 100% certain that Patsy wrote the ransom note. I say this because it simply isn't believable that a real kidnapper wrote it. It certainly has her personality all over it.

    2. Because the ransom note was not legitimate, and thus a ruse by someone in the home (again, almost certainly Patsy), this means that no "intruder" killed Jonbenet.

    Outside of that, however, I find this case to be continually perplexing. While I have no choice but to accept that someone in the home caused Jonbenet's death, I find all such possible scenarios to be implausible in varying degrees. The most vexing problem any invesigator faces is the fact Jonbenet suffered a horrific blow to her skull, but was also strangled, or at least found in the position of a strangling victim.

    In the most popular scenario (postulated by Steve Thomas), we have an angry Patsy causing Jonbenet's death, probably over bed wetting issues. Is this thesis really tenable? Can we accept that a mother, who appeared to be loving and very close to her daughter, could snap so severely that she hit her hard enough to accidentally kill her? Adding to this is the fact we must also accept that she staged a strangulation aftewards, for some reason, and worst of all, must also have staged some digital molestation. And, in whatever scenario we choose, was her death so obvious that both parents instantly made the curious decision not to seek immediate medical help, but instead to launch an intricate coverup?

    I find this scenario very difficult to accept, unless Patsy was truly mentally deranged, and managed to hide that fact from her large circle of friends and acquaintances. Also, if Patsy killed Jonbenet in a rage, why would John join the coverup, especially such a bizarre one, with weird staging and that ridiculous ransom note? I have to think that most husbands, if they discovered their wife had angrily killed their daughter, would be extremely upset at the wife, and quite unwilling to help her cover up that death.

    Scenario number 2 has Patsy discovering John molesting Jonbenet, and angrily hitting her on the head, either in misdirected blame at her or perhaps missing a blow intended for her husband. This one perhaps explains the joint coverup a bit better, since both parents would have something terrible to conceal from the authorities. However, I would also think that they'd almost certainly get a divorce afterwards, at the earliest opportunity. I can't imagine either of them wanting to live with the other in such a situation.

    I find any hypothesis that has John killing Jonbenet by himself to be impossible, simply because it is unfathomable that Patsy would have joined him in covering up, and writing that absurd ransom note. Thus, I think John can be eliminated as the actual killer with a fair degree of confidence.

    The various intruder theories are impossible for all the reasons we've expounded on for years. No evidence of a break in, the total implausibility of an intruder showing up without pen and paper, then leaving the victim's dead body in the same location as the ransom note, etc. The ransom note alone, I believe, completely rules out any intruder.

    There are the conspiracy theories that involve a powerful pedophile ring, which would explain the lack of any indication of an intruder, and the fact that none of the RDI theories truly make complete sense. Was Jonbenet killed during some sick sex game, and her parents forced to construct a clumsy coverup for fear or being exposed themselves, or even being harmed by the same evil group? I respect Cyril Wecht a great deal, and this is the theory he came up with (although I don't believe he detailed a group of powerful conspirators).

    Finally, the theory that I have ultimately come to reluctantly believe. Burke killing Jonbenet, either in a jealous rage or perhaps accidentally, is the only thing, in my view, that explains the joint coverup by the parents. It still doesn't really explain all the staging, but if Burke killed her with a blow to the head, after fooling around with her sexually in some way, all the staging would consist of really would be a fake strangulation scene (although I still don't quite understand the need for that).

    However, the BDI theories leave something to be desired as well. Was he old enough to have accomplished the crime by himself? Is there any indication he could have become enraged enough to go that far, even accidentally (with one powerful blow)? And how can we explain his seemingly normal life afterwards? He went to a good college, has now graduated, I believe, and seems not to show any visible scars from what must have been a very, very traumatic event in his life, even if he didn't kill his sister. If he in fact caused her death, his lack of remorse and concern afterwards, reflected by his absence of curiosity and the strange session with the psychiatrist later, is very troubling and baffling.

    No one scenario really explains everything, which is why the death of Jonbenet Ramsey is an enduring mystery, the ultimate who-done-it. As closed house mysteries go, it has few competitors.
     
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  3. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    1.did you ever meet a wife/mother who lies for her abusive husband?I did.trust me,they are in total denial,living on another planet.it's not that they don't know or suspect,they don't WANNA know.they show up at work with swollen blue eyes and LIE straight to your face that they fell down the stairs.happens the same way when they defend their husbands who hurt the kids,it happens in "every family",the kid is naughty and started it.
    and there's so much more.trust me,it HAPPENS.

    2.if John is totally innocent and clueless how do you explain JB being previously molested and everything that happened in order to cover up she was assaulted that night?redressing,wiping off,etc?
     
  4. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    another possible scenario:
    JR did it but told PR that BDI and asked for her help in the cover-up.we have to do it for Burke and will never talk about it again.and then it's up to God to forgive us.denial denial.it's not like they were a family who sat down and talked about things in a truthful open manner,isn't it.I can see this happening.just move on.they did that,didn't they.forgive,forget and move on,we don't have to talk about it.
     
  5. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    IF PR wrote the note:

    doesn't mean she killed JB
    doesn't even mean she knows the whole truth because if she didn't do it she probably wasn't PRESENT.and don't tell me husbands and wives always tell the truth to each other when they did something bad.it's the opposite.the other one is the person you wanna hide the ugly truth from the most.

    ITA with something S.Singular wrote once,you wouldn't be terrified of the cops but of your wife.


    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/singular/theories_4.html

    According to John Douglas, the ex-FBI profiler who examined the Ramseys briefly after the murder and concluded they were not child killers, only one parent knew that John Ramsey had recently received a $118,000 bonus and that parent was the father. I believe that a husband's inability to confront his wife at a critical moment — because of his desire to protect her feelings — played an important role in this case. It is possible to be afraid of the cops, but terrified of your wife.


    I don't agree with many things re his theory but this part makes total sense to me!
     
  6. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    I am NOT ST's fan,everybody knows it.
    BUT I don't think he lied on the stand about these people and their report.
    AND LW changes the subject,I wonder why.

    5 A. -- if that is, but I do recall

    6 that report and in that report I think the

    7 outstanding mention was that he was of the

    8 opinion that she had sustained prior vaginal

    9 trauma prior to December 26 or 25.





    23 A. At times there was, among experts,

    24 as was to be expected, there was conflict of

    25 opinion. But regarding the prior vaginal



    301



    1 trauma if that's what you're asking about,

    2 this blue ribbon panel of pediatric medical

    3 experts they brought in seemed to me to be

    4 in agreement on some other conclusions.





    it's interesting.LW pushes him to talk only about the acute trauma which in his head points to IDI and doesn't wanna let him talk about the other findings re PRIOR /chronic trauma.
     
  7. KariKae

    KariKae Active Member

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    Snipped by me - This is what I come up with too. The most logical person both parents would cover for is Burke.
     
  8. Peepers

    Peepers Member

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    I totally agree with every word you typed here and in your OP.
     
  9. Unreals

    Unreals New Member

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    Madeleine,

    Your speculation is as good as mine. As I noted, this case is baffling and no theory really makes sense. Your hypothesis that JR killed Jonbenet and then told Patsy Burke did it is certainly another possibility that I didn't consider. Btw, I am by no means saying that John is more innocent than Patsy, or a sympathetic figure in any way.

    John's obtaining a lawyer before his daughter's body was cold, his refusal to cooperate with the police, and his attempt to throw long time friends under the bus and infer they might have been the culprits indicate that he's a cold, calculating man. I think of Patsy being more of an emotional basket case, and since her own behavior the day Jonbenet's body was found, and for years afterwards, was bizarre and not indicative of a grieving mother, neither parent can be considered beyond suspicion.

    I should have factored in the apparent chronic sexual abuse that Jonbenet suffered, when listing possible scenarios. But if John was reguarly abusing his daughter sexually, that just throws more wild cards into the mix. Did anyone even touch JBR down "there" at all that night, or were the signs of abuse all from the past (albeit the recent past)? If there were clear signs she'd been abused sexually, why the need for the garotte at all? Wouldn't it seem more believable that the intruder/pedophile had killed her with a blow to the head while attempting to molest her?

    As for Patsy being an enabler, I am all too familiar with women who turn the other way when their husbands abuse the children. However, she would have to be a really extreme case to swallow the literal murder of her precious little girl, and then continue living with the killer. I know it happens, and it's certainly possible, but I don't think it's very likely, imho.
     
  10. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

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    that's why I said that it depends on how much she really knows if so.for ex ST was sure that PDI and JR had no clue,that she did it all by herself.I believe it's the other way around.she wasn't clueless but didn't know the whole truth either.
    it's just one of my theories.I agree that many things don't make sense and don't fit.no theory makes sense,something's missing.And I still haven't figured the role of that garrote either,to me it's more likely that it was used to finish her off after something else happened.the evidence tells us she was alive when she was strangled and I never bought the "they didn't know she was still alive and strangled her in an attempt to stage the scene" scenario.
     
  11. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    Whatever happened that night...both John and Patsy knew about it before calling 911. Patsy recalls screaming and John screaming as he came up from the basement. Patsy tells LE "before we found the body" several times. John tells LE about covering JonBenet up before Patsy sees her...

    All this takes place before anyone else got involved. They staged the scene, wrote the ransom note, scolded Burke to go back to bed, etc...

    The 911 call where Burke is said to be saying "What did you find?" and John saying "We're not speaking to you!"

    I can picture the head blow coming first...an accident. But could Patsy fashion a garrote and strangle her baby? Is John capable of doing that? My guess is that if anyone could take the time to fashion a garrote and place it around JonBenet's neck, choking her to death, it would possibly be Burke.
     
  12. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it just?
     
  13. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, Unreals. Hedda Nusbaum needed to be thrown into jail before she would testify against her murdering husband.
     
  14. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    JB bled from the vagina, enough to necessitate being "wiped down with a cloth" (the coroner's own words). There was also a small amount of blood in some areas of the vagina, and some areas of bruising. THOSE were all evidence of someone "touching her down there" THAT NIGHT.
    There was other evidence of prior abuse (the erosion) and some healing bruises.
     
  15. wonderllama

    wonderllama Registered Snoozer

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    Every time I think about that I feel sick.
     
  16. Whaleshark

    Whaleshark New Member

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    ....especially since that garrote looks just like a homemade commando toggle rope as taught in the Scouts (and Rangers, and Armed Forces..), as a useful tool for camping, lifesaving, as a weapon, etc:

    [​IMG]

    http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=22195

    Says at this site that the commando rope is also useful as a garotte:
    http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-equip/aus
     
  17. feddup

    feddup New Member

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    That still doesn't make sense...if he did it why would they send him out of the house right away and risk that he talk? He was only 9 yrs old. You mean after killing his little sister, he could go over to some friends and not say a word about it? No, doesn't make sense.
    And if he had this in him people at school, friends, friends parents definately would've seen something strange about him over these yrs. That is pretty horrendous and sick for a 9 yr old to kill a 6 yr old. JMO
     
  18. feddup

    feddup New Member

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    Hedda Nusbaum was very isolated from the world, unlike Patsy R. Patsy
    was out and about and never isolated.
    Don't forget the awful shape she was in when they foundher daughter. She had had her nose broken, she was a MESS from physical abuse.
     
  19. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

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    My point, feddup, is that most women would let a creep like that swing.
     
  20. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

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    I don't think anyone is suggesting that BR was some kind of psychotic. He was a bit "geeky" by some accounts, but what happened here was an accident later staged to look like a kidnapping/murder. Not an accident like her falling down the stairs, but possibly she was bashed on the head because she screamed during a painful sexual assault (she bled, after all). The bash wasn't intended to kill her, just to shut her up fast. The neighbor that heard the scream said that she heard only one, and it seemed to end rather abruptly. I think a kid like that could very well have wielded that heavy flashlight and brought it down on the back of her head with enough force to cause that fracture. He had hit her twice in the past with a golf club. The parents said that was an accident. We have no way of knowing if it really was. In any event, those two incidents resulted in minor injuries to JB, stitches at an ER, not much more than that.
    But in this case, the head bash caused fatal damage. Instantly rendered unconscious, probably comatose, she would have been probably having seizures, foaming at the mouth etc. There WAS some evidence of this: the mucus/vomit streak down her right cheek is very visible in the crime photos and was noted at the autopsy. Also noted was "tan mucus" in her nose and mouth (the tan color very likely caused by small amounts of blood- blood looks brownish as it dries). Faced with what appeared to be JB's fatal bash and realizing there was no turning back from that, the parents could have frantically concocted this staged crime over the next few hours. If this had been what actually did happen, BR may not have been told JB died because of that blow to the head. He may have simply accepted his parents' staging as the truth- a 10 year old (he was 2 weeks away from his 10th birthday, so he was 10 as far as I am concerned) wouldn't think about how implausible this "coincidental" kidnapping/strangulation was. He'd just accept what his parents told him, so no need to worry about sending him to the White's. There was far more to worry about keeping him home and risking the police talking to him or observing his odd behavior and nonchalance regarding his sister's kidnapping (for at that time, this was being treated as a kidnapping). BR may have been unaware of JB even being placed in the WC at that time.
    I think the parents would certainly have done something like this to protect BR, as odious as it seems to those of us who have never been in this situation. To me, I cannot even conceive of taking these steps to protect a child who killed another child. But it can happen, has happened, and will happen again.
    This case is unique on many levels. Nothing in any other child kidnapping/murder is the same as it is here. There are layers here that confound all who study the case. The abuse, prior and that night. The whole pageant persona and interplay with Patsy and all HER issues brought to bear- the cancer, her own failed attempts at Miss America, he issues with her own parents. Follow the case down a path, and you find a dead end. Take a turn and find something else that doesn't fit. Nothing fits well enough to solve the puzzle completely, with ironclad proof and without doubt.
     
  21. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

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    Exactly right, DeeDee. The one thing I'm certain of is that there was no intruder that night. Also, whatever happened, I believe all three remaining household members know exactly what happened. If BR were not involved, I think he woke during the scream/assault and went to investigate. We will never know all that went on in that household and this incident may not have even been isolated. Who knows how many times those children saw their mother in a rage? This is not something the Ramseys would have talked about to their friends. I think they didn't worry about BR keeping his silence because he had been doing so for quite awhile.
     

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