Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert #2

[Notorious]

Anyone see this bonus footage from iD investigation of John Ray talkingnto two forensic investigators discussing Shannon's computer?
It was a small, purple, notebook type computer in which Shannan stored clients lists (which were stored on some type of cloud, I didn't even think the cloud existed in 2010 but ok) and it had a history of old searches including criminal records for clients. Throughout the short video, they show some papers and it ends up that Shannon had multiple email addresses. I was able to get a screen shot of some of the documents that the investigators were holding and a few of the twelve email address they found are legible. If anyone thinks they will be useful, and if it's not against the rules, I will post here.

Here's a link to the video....
https://youtu.be/_DdX_c0jPpA

 

[WINDSOR]

The police say they arrived at 5:40am.

What if Gus ran out of his house to wait for the cops at the front gate without his watch? I wouldn't take the arrival time at 6am as gospel. Nothing is as unreliable as eyewitness testimony. I do take sunrise at 5:52am (and low tide at 5:40am) as etched in stone - the rest, not so much.

There is not a whole heck of a lot of time for someone to have done something nefarious to Shannan OTHER than give her something at Brewer's house. You start to have ambient line a bit before sunrise.

In the book Lost Girls by Robert Kolker he says it took the Police 45 minutes to arrive at Oak Beach. Which LE stated that the police arrived at Oak Beach at 5:40am? I never heard that before.

If the police arrived at 5:40am, that would be awesome, MP would still have been in Oak Beach, and likely SG would have been alive. That would change the scenario of the events at Oak Beach.

 

[Kali&89]

I think some important information about Shannons final hours died with Gus Cloetti.We have all read that after Gus went to confront MP on the road he then states he went to the gate to wait for the police. According to Gus the gate was /is only a very short walk, some reports say 30 second,from his house. So if this is true Gus should have seen MP leave Oak Beach and anyone else who either left or entered the community while he was waiting for the police. I believe Gus saw something important that night due to one statement he made in one of the statements he gave to a reporter after Shannons disappearance "that he would help the investigation in any way he could but don't ask him to give up one of his neighbours". "Don't ask him to give up one of his neighbours" why would Gus make such a statement if he hadn't seen something involving one of his neighbours that night?? I posted his exact quote and a link to the interview in one of my earlier posts in this thread

 

[maddalena1]

My feeling on it all? Occam's razor. I think SG was the one victim that got away out of the burlap 4. Killer (IMO J Brewer as he fits the LISK profile quite well) decided to not share the burlap/dumping ground ritual with her when she was killed so as to not be tied to the 4 other victims, but he also made sure she was dead so she couldn't blow the whistle any further. JB's comments about thinking SG was possibly a trans person that disgusted him and his need to show himself as masculine and not wanting to be associated with trans people made me think not only is he a misogynist, but he maybe also has way too much history with hiring prostitutes and coming into contact with trans people - and that maybe Asian John Doe was one of the trans people that ran into Brewer and upset him to the point of being murdered (as Asian John Doe was curiously closer to the Gilgo 4 than the other victims found AND he was left intact like the other victims - but he wasn't female so there was no urge to follow the same naked in burlap protocol with him.

Perfect

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[Kali&89]

Someone in another thread mentioned the possibility that the GB4 may have been dumped after Shannon disappeared... which got me thinking along the lines ofGus not wanting to give up a neighbour and the drifter saying that JBs basement smelled like death... Maybe the girls were wrapped in burlap in the basement and then hastily dumped after Shannon disappeared as the killer knew the heat would descend on Oak beach and it would explain why they weren't buried just placed... no time to bury them...... this also ties in Daisychains theory that Shannon was the one who got away ... maybe she stumbled across something in the house that terrified her, like a body in the basement, and caused her to believe she was going to be the next victim...

 

[maddalena1]

Someone in another thread mentioned the possibility that the GB4 may have been dumped after Shannon disappeared... which got me thinking along the lines ofGus not wanting to give up a neighbour and the drifter saying that JBs basement smelled like death... Maybe the girls were wrapped in burlap in the basement and then hastily dumped after Shannon disappeared as the killer knew the heat would descend on Oak beach and it would explain why they weren't buried just placed... no time to bury them...... this also ties in Daisychains theory that Shannon was the one who got away ... maybe she stumbled across something in the house that terrified her, like a body in the basement, and caused her to believe she was going to be the next victim...

That is similar to my theory. I believe that something happened at brewers that scared shannan really bad. I thought maybe they showed her Snuff. However, another good theory is that someone tried to strangle her and she got away. This one is good too that she saw a dead body and freaked.

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[maddalena1]

The other thing that I study is astrological signs of serial killers and find that a lot of them seem to be born under the mutable signs, or have strong natal placements in, Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius and Pisces. I believe Brewer is a virgo.

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[DaisyChains]

That is similar to my theory. I believe that something happened at brewers that scared shannan really bad. I thought maybe they showed her Snuff. However, another good theory is that someone tried to strangle her and she got away. This one is good too that she saw a dead body and freaked.

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She could have even heard stories through the grapevine about a man on Long Island who might be taking working girls... news and rumors regarding creepy Johns can travel fast among these working girls. They look out for each other. SG seemed to cover her bases on checking out the John's criminal record before meeting him. This presumably was her first time ever meeting Brewer. What if she did see some sort of bondage cage or chains in his basement? Something involving BDSM and captivity? And yes coupled with smells. And then maybe she began thinking back again to rumors of other missing working girls who were last in Long Island. Put 2 and 2 together and anyone would run out screaming "they're trying to kill me".

At this point LISK was becoming brazen and was even contacting people announcing himself and victims. I could see him becoming so brazen and confident that his false sense of security slipped him up with SG.

 

[fred&edna]

Anyone see this bonus footage from iD investigation of John Ray talkingnto two forensic investigators discussing Shannon's computer?
It was a small, purple, notebook type computer in which Shannan stored clients lists (which were stored on some type of cloud, I didn't even think the cloud existed in 2010 but ok) and it had a history of old searches including criminal records for clients. Throughout the short video, they show some papers and it ends up that Shannon had multiple email addresses. I was able to get a screen shot of some of the documents that the investigators were holding and a few of the twelve email address they found are legible. If anyone thinks they will be useful, and if it's not against the rules, I will post here.

Here's a link to the video....
https://youtu.be/_DdX_c0jPpA

I'd love to see the screen shots!

 

[Tugela]

Anyone see this bonus footage from iD investigation of John Ray talkingnto two forensic investigators discussing Shannon's computer?
It was a small, purple, notebook type computer in which Shannan stored clients lists (which were stored on some type of cloud, I didn't even think the cloud existed in 2010 but ok) and it had a history of old searches including criminal records for clients. Throughout the short video, they show some papers and it ends up that Shannon had multiple email addresses. I was able to get a screen shot of some of the documents that the investigators were holding and a few of the twelve email address they found are legible. If anyone thinks they will be useful, and if it's not against the rules, I will post here.

Here's a link to the video....
https://youtu.be/_DdX_c0jPpA

Sure it did. It just was not called "the cloud" back then.

 

[Tugela]

That is similar to my theory. I believe that something happened at brewers that scared shannan really bad. I thought maybe they showed her Snuff. However, another good theory is that someone tried to strangle her and she got away. This one is good too that she saw a dead body and freaked.

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Since she was there to "party" it is way more likely that they were doing drugs and she just had a psychotic reaction. It happens. And it is consistent with the descriptions of her behaviour. Her client of course is not going to SAY that because it is illegal to provide drugs to people, and there is that little matter of felony murder if a death happens as a result of a felony. It is the same reason druggies abandon a friend who is ODing, because if they call for help and the person dies, they will go to jail for a very long time. So, he is going to say that she became crazy for some unknown reason and took off. He is "hiding" something, but it is not what you people seem to think.

What confuses me is why everyone thinks that this woman would have reacted and behaved the way they would have....has everyone forgotten what line of work she was in?

I don't think it is necessary to invoke conspiracy.....it seems pretty clear what happened. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. The fact that one or more people had been using the local wilds to dump bodies is just coincidence.

 

[Kali&89]

If Shannon had been fully clothed when she was found I might be able to believe she had simply drowned.However,there are too many red flags in her disappearance to say for sure it was simply an accident.1.She called 911 terrified that she was going to be killed and she was killed or died.2.She was visiting a John who fits all of the published profiles of LISK and he had a history of using Craiglist girls for sex,he mentions how transvestites disgust him and then 4 Craiglists girls and a transvestite are all found dead only moments away from his summer home.3.Then Shannon's purse, shoes, pants and her cell phone are found almost half a mile away from where her body was found ,crime scene number 1,then she walks or runs without her shoes or pants 1/2 a mile through water and thick reeds, which LE wearing gardening gloves had to use machetes to get through, to where she eventually falls down and drowns face up.4 Finally I grew up in the hunting ground and personally knew one of the victims of one of Canada's most famous serial killers, Clifford Olsen, who drugged his victims under the pretext of "hey lets party and have a good time" and then when they were vulnerable under the influence of drugs he attacked and killed them. I believe this is what happened or was going to happen to Shannon but she was a smart girl and something tipped her off and she freaked and tried to make a break for it.Of course the last thoughts are just my opinion but to myself and many others it makes more sense and than what LE saying about how Shannon died,

Since she was there to "party" it is way more likely that they were doing drugs and she just had a psychotic reaction. It happens. And it is consistent with the descriptions of her behaviour. Her client of course is not going to SAY that because it is illegal to provide drugs to people, and there is that little matter of felony murder if a death happens as a result of a felony. It is the same reason druggies abandon a friend who is ODing, because if they call for help and the person dies, they will go to jail for a very long time. So, he is going to say that she became crazy for some unknown reason and took off. He is "hiding" something, but it is not what you people seem to think.

What confuses me is why everyone thinks that this woman would have reacted and behaved the way they would have....has everyone forgotten what line of work she was in?

I don't think it is necessary to invoke conspiracy.....it seems pretty clear what happened. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. The fact that one or more people had been using the local wilds to dump bodies is just coincidence.

 

[maddalena1]

If Shannon had been fully clothed when she was found I might be able to believe she had simply drowned.However,there are too many red flags in her disappearance to say for sure it was simply an accident.1.She called 911 terrified that she was going to be killed and she was killed or died.2.She was visiting a John who fits all of the published profiles of LISK and he had a history of using Craiglist girls for sex,he mentions how transvestites disgust him and then 4 Craiglists girls and a transvestite are all found dead only moments away from his summer home.3.Then Shannon's purse, shoes, pants and her cell phone are found almost half a mile away from where her body was found ,crime scene number 1,then she walks or runs without her shoes or pants 1/2 a mile through water and thick reeds, which LE wearing gardening gloves had to use machetes to get through, to where she eventually falls down and drowns face up.4 Finally I grew up in the hunting ground and personally knew one of the victims of one of Canada's most famous serial killers, Clifford Olsen, who drugged his victims under the pretext of "hey lets party and have a good time" and then when they were vulnerable under the influence of drugs he attacked and killed them. I believe this is what happened or was going to happen to Shannon but she was a smart girl and something tipped her off and she freaked and tried to make a break for it.Of course the last thoughts are just my opinion but to myself and many others it makes more sense and than what LE saying about how Shannon died,

Sorry, my heart was meant for kali as I am in full agreement with her theory. Not sure if Brewer is lisk but he knows more than he is saying. There is something about Brewer energy that repulses me.

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[Kali&89]

Yes Maddalena, just the fact that SCPD is saying the release of Shannans 911 tape would frustrate and compromise their investigation into the LISK Case means Shannan crossed paths with someone that night who is either LISK or connected to the case in some significant way.

Sorry, my heart was meant for kali as I am in full agreement with her theory. Not sure if Brewer is lisk but he knows more than he is saying. There is something about Brewer energy that repulses me.

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[DaisyChains]

Yes that 911 call must have had some very important info for police to not release it publicly after all of this time. There is something on that tape that points to someone that was trying to kill SG that night. I used to think it was pure coincidence, but look at the John SG was running from and how close he fits to LISK profile. Look at how fast he sold off his house and renovated things after SG disappeared. Look at the lazy police department that would rather vilify an at risk female deceased victim than hold corrupt men like Brewer or Burke, whether in the force or not, responsible for their actions. It was a boys club in the upper echelon of the force. They did not care about these young women. As Lynn Barthelemy's counsel said many times, they could not got anyone to care about the case b/c the women were just "hookers" to the police.

In the early stages of the investigation the higher ups would rather let a man get away with the murder of one woman and potential serial murders of 4 more probably to save face and a buck.

It we want to talk the simplest explanation, then we have to take SG's word for it: Someone was trying to kill her that night. I honestly can't imagine her calling the police on herself unless she was in real peril.

Perhaps they just didn't get enough evidence on Brewer. Perhaps they think LISK could be Brewer and are waiting for him to slip up. Who knows.

I hope FBI are watching him.

 

[Kali&89]

Also, the place at the Fairway was a summer home, which fits into the killing season theory. The police in Canada have also been known to ignore cases when the victims were hookers.There is a famous case from Vancouver "the boozing barber" killed girls until he killed a girl who wasn't a hooker and then her family got involved and the case was solved and then of course Willie Pickton killed working girls for years before the police took the case seriously. So its not a conspiracy theory in regards to how these cases and Shannon's case are treated, its a fact the deaths of hookers are often ignored as the old boys clubs in law enforcement don't feel these girls are worthy of their time. However,that being said I want to make it clear that I know there are good cops out there who put their lives on the line for us everyday and I respect police and the work they do immensely.

Yes that 911 call must have had some very important info for police to not release it publicly after all of this time. There is something on that tape that points to someone that was trying to kill SG that night. I used to think it was pure coincidence, but look at the John SG was running from and how close he fits to LISK profile. Look at how fast he sold off his house and renovated things after SG disappeared. Look at the lazy police department that would rather vilify an at risk female deceased victim than hold corrupt men like Brewer or Burke, whether in the force or not, responsible for their actions. It was a boys club in the upper echelon of the force. They did not care about these young women. As Lynn Barthelemy's counsel said many times, they could not got anyone to care about the case b/c the women were just "hookers" to the police.

In the early stages of the investigation the higher ups would rather let a man get away with the murder of one woman and potential serial murders of 4 more probably to save face and a buck.

It we want to talk the simplest explanation, then we have to take SG's word for it: Someone was trying to kill her that night. I honestly can't imagine her calling the police on herself unless she was in real peril.

Perhaps they just didn't get enough evidence on Brewer. Perhaps they think LISK could be Brewer and are waiting for him to slip up. Who knows.

I hope FBI are watching him.

 

[Hotpotato]

It seems LE doesn't put a lot of resources into sex worker cases because the working girls know the risk going into it, so when the worst happens no one really feels bad. I see this a lot. God forbid anyone care about the circumstances that push them into this line of work in the first place.... or the fact that they're humans, and someone's child/parent/loved one.

 

[Hotpotato]

Did Hackett confirm to LE that he did in fact treat SG that morning and release her to Pak? Or is that just what the lawsuit is claiming?

 

[PictureSnatcher]

Hackett has denied it.

 

[deedee21]

It seems LE doesn't put a lot of resources into sex worker cases because the working girls know the risk going into it, so when the worst happens no one really feels bad. I see this a lot. God forbid anyone care about the circumstances that push them into this line of work in the first place.... or the fact that they're humans, and someone's child/parent/loved one.

I agree with you. Look how LE treated the toddler in death. LE waited almost six years to admit she was Peaches daughter. Her gender was listed as unknown in NAMUS. Could someone find her if they tried? No. Why? Because it was assumed her mother was a sex worker. Would LE have handled it differently if they believed otherwise? Yes. Jessica Taylors tattoo was shown more respect than a child that was a victim of a serial killer. I want SCPD to get off their azzes and arrest this baby killer.