Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert #2

[jollypup]

I have to read back through the papers in the John Ray data dump, I only read them once, but I could have sworn in there I read that there were times Shannan was picked up in New Jersey.

This is my recollection But I believe this night a train was taken by Shannon

 

[jollypup]

This is my recollection But I believe this night a train was taken by Shannon

If I am wrong (unfortunately sometimes I am) Then that would be a crime 1000 percent.

 

[3Patriots]

My take is CPH makes the calls because he is responsible for whatever SG ingested, Rx or otherwise.

 

[jollypup]

My take is CPH makes the calls because he is responsible for whatever SG ingested, Rx or otherwise.

When and how? Is it your belief that the trip Brewer and Shannon took was to Hackett's for drugs?

 

[3Patriots]

When and how? Is it your belief that the trip Brewer and Shannon took was to Hackett's for drugs?

Very possibly. I'm not even opposed to the idea that Hackett was there that night.

 

[jollypup]

Very possibly. I'm not even opposed to the idea that Hackett was there that night.

Where was he for the 22 ish minutes of the 911 call? Only hear two voices. Brewer and Mike

 

[White_Rabbit]

When BB saw Shannan, she had no jacket, and purse (as I recall). She had her cell phone in her hand, though. Her jacket and purse would have been in Brewer's house, likely, once she arrived that evening at his house. Would she have had on her jacket and purse when being told to leave the house? Unknown. Jacket supposedly wound up near Brewer's house/driveway, along with one of Shannan's earrings(?) I don't think she lost those due to her own actions. Perhaps she lost her purse somehow between Brewer's house and BB's house, unless BB definitely saw her with her purse, and Shannan would have been wearing her jeans.

Back to the affidavits. Page 10, JS Sr.'s affidavit doesn't mention any talk from TC that Shannan's driver was there at the same time as TC and CPH were there, after Shannan was at BB's house. It would have been easy for TC to throw MP's name in there to make him responsible, and deflect, but he did not tell JS Sr. that her driver was there, or another unknown male. They would have no reason to protect MP.

IMO, with what we have right now, I (my feelings, only) don't think Pak murdered Shannan. I think CPH medically contributed to her demise, and failed to call 911 for proper assistance. IMO Shannan was placed where she was when she was almost deceased and unresponsive, or deceased. By CPH, or CPH and Cannings potentially helping. Or, after treatment from CPH in presence of TC, at the very least, she ran and hid in the reeds, and died due to a medical reason which could have been in part caused by CPH. Those are just my own thoughts, at the moment, given what we have.

Affidavit of Barbara Brennan

Barbara Brennan stated that Shannan was wearing a white, short sleeve top which came down to her waist, tight black jeans and black ballet-type slippers or shoes. She said she did not see a pocketbook, but dud have a cellphone in one of her hands.

Missing Prostitute's Clothes Found on Long Island

"Detectives on Tuesday and Wednesday found Ms. Gilbert’s purse with a photo ID inside, her jeans and shoes, as well as a cellphone they believe she owned."

Statement of Joe Scalise

"Tom Canning stated to me that Joe Brewer left the house to get more coke. Tom said Shannan Gilbert was all coked up. He then went on to tell me at some point he was contacted by Barbara Brennan and went out with his dog and his son Justin. Later on they saw footprints, wet footprints coming from the beach. At that point he meets up with Peter Hackett and he and Peter meet up with Shann. Canning stated that Shannan was agitated and out of control. Canning stated he and Hackett tried to calm her down and that Hackett gave her an injection sedative to sedate her."

Transcript of Mari Gilbert, Page 73, 2-21:

John Ray: Okay, Can you first tell me what you independently recall he actually said?

Mari Gilbert: My name is Dr. Peter Hackett. I live on Long Island. I run a halfway house for wayward girls, girls that want to get off the street. Shannan was here. I was trying to help her. I remember, you knw, asking him how did you get my phone number? And he stated to me it's part of the rules in the house that I have all of my girls give me family numbers in case there's an emergency, anything happens. Is Shannan there? I says, no, she's not here. Have you heard from Shannan today? No, I haven't. I'm worried about her. She left with a man named Michael Pak. He promised to bring her back. She's not back yet. I'm worried about her. I want to help her. If you hear from Shannan, if she calls you, if she comes to your house, I'm going to give you my number, have her call me, please have her call me, I'm worried about her.

I'm not sure how to reconcile the contradiction between the Statement of Joe Scalise and the Transcript of Mari Gilbert, unless, as you have said, that the purpose of Peter Hackett's phone call was to deflect, or that Joseph Scalise's account is second hand and Mari Gilbert's is first hand. But that still leaves the fact that Shannan's belongings were discovered in the vicinity of Peter Hackett's yard.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember reading that Shanna's earring was found on Joseph Brewer's property, and also that her brown leather jacket was also left in Joseph Brewer's driveway.

 

[3Patriots]

Where was he for the 22 ish minutes of the 911 call? Only hear two voices. Brewer and Mike

Already long gone, obviously. Maybe wasn't ever there. Point is the postulation that he provided narcotics. The 23 minute call doesn't capture everything. He and others could have split after it started getting interesting but before she calls 911.

 

[WINDSOR]

The only reason Peter Hackett called Mari Gilbert was because he wasn’t aware of what happened to Shannan at the time, which indicates that Shannan was alive when he parted company with her. The fact that Mari Gilbert told Detective Camacho that Peter Hackett stated he treated Shannan and then she left with her “boyfriend”, and it being clear that Shannan’s path that morning lead her to the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house, and Michael Pak following Shannan, we have to deduce that Michael Pak is the “boyfriend” that Peter Hackett is referring to. That means that Michael Pak was the last known person to be with Shannan before she met her demise in the marsh.

That means that Michael Pak was the last known person to be with Shannan before she met her demise in the marsh.
It is my opinion that this is absolute and unequivocally the truth. This crime began with Pak arriving in Oak Beach with Shannan alive; and leaving when she was dead or dying.

 

[WINDSOR]

If that is so, and the statute of limitations allows, that is something that could be used to pressure Michael Pak.

Finally, 18 U.S.C. § 2423 makes it a federal felony punishable by up to 30 years to arrange for the interstate or international transport of people for the purpose of engaging in illegal sex (i.e. prostitutes or minors), for commercial advantage or private financial gain.

CYNICAL COMMENT;
Too bad the SCPD was not aware of this law ten years ago.
Darn, what a missed opportunity! BTW (It was mentioned by posters on this site back then)

With Pak's prior felony conviction on a similar charge, I am sure a plea bargain offer for cooperation would have elicited a clear and detailed testimony from Pak. OR......................the non-laying of this charge got the silence SCPD wanted.

 

[SecretAgentMan]

That means that Michael Pak was the last known person to be with Shannan before she met her demise in the marsh.
It is my opinion that this is absolute and unequivocally the truth. This crime began with Pak arriving in Oak Beach with Shannan alive; and leaving when she was dead or dying.

What crime are you alluding to? Murder imo can not be proven in a court of law in Shannans death unless someone saw Shannan actually being murdered & hasnt spoken up.....but with that said, you still need evidence of the crime.

 

[White_Rabbit]

When BB saw Shannan, she had no jacket, and purse (as I recall). She had her cell phone in her hand, though. Her jacket and purse would have been in Brewer's house, likely, once she arrived that evening at his house. Would she have had on her jacket and purse when being told to leave the house? Unknown. Jacket supposedly wound up near Brewer's house/driveway, along with one of Shannan's earrings(?) I don't think she lost those due to her own actions. Perhaps she lost her purse somehow between Brewer's house and BB's house, unless BB definitely saw her with her purse, and Shannan would have been wearing her jeans.

Back to the affidavits. Page 10, JS Sr.'s affidavit doesn't mention any talk from TC that Shannan's driver was there at the same time as TC and CPH were there, after Shannan was at BB's house. It would have been easy for TC to throw MP's name in there to make him responsible, and deflect, but he did not tell JS Sr. that her driver was there, or another unknown male. They would have no reason to protect MP.

IMO, with what we have right now, I (my feelings, only) don't think Pak murdered Shannan. I think CPH medically contributed to her demise, and failed to call 911 for proper assistance. IMO Shannan was placed where she was when she was almost deceased and unresponsive, or deceased. By CPH, or CPH and Cannings potentially helping. Or, after treatment from CPH in presence of TC, at the very least, she ran and hid in the reeds, and died due to a medical reason which could have been in part caused by CPH. Those are just my own thoughts, at the moment, given what we have.

I've re-read the affidavit of Joseph Scalise, Sr., and I'm not sure if what he says is considered hearsay, but Joseph Scalise states that Thomas Canning, when talking about the morning of May 1, 2010, said that "Shannan was agitated and out of control", and that "he and Hackett tried to calm her down", and that " Hackett gave her a sedative to sedate her."

Joseph Scalise was not a direct witness to the events on that morning. In his affidavit he states only what he heard from Thomas Canning, who claims to be a direct witness to the events. The fact that Thomas Canning does not mention Michael Pak in this conversation with Joseph Scalise does not necessarily mean that Michael Pak was not there.

I lean toward believing what Mari Gilbert told Detective Camacho and what she eventually stated in her transcript, which was that Peter Hackett told her that he treated Shannan and she then left with her boyfriend. She had no reason to lie to Detective Camacho at that point, and as a concerned mother would have tried to give the facts exactly as she knew them.

We know that Shannan was suspicious of Michael Pak, and that she made some serious accusations toward him during the course of her 911 call. He had Shannan in a very vulnerable position when they were at Joseph Brewer's house. If she were ultimately treated with a sedative by Peter Hackett and then left with Michael Pak, he would have her in an even more vulnerable position. If Shannan were to survive this situation what repercussions would be waiting for him after the events of that evening? He must have had to weigh his options.

What were his options at the point when a sedated and unresponsive Shannan left Peter Hackett's house with him?

He could've taken her home, or to the hospital, or contacted the police. These options would all leave him with a lot of explaining to do and most likely a very serious legal problem, after all, he was involved in criminal activities such as sex trafficking, drugs, prostitution, etc.. What did Shannan know that made her accuse him of conspiring to kill her? How would a serious legal problem or Shannan's knowledge of a plot affect his relationship with either his current or former employer Joseph Ruis?

Leaving Shannan in the marsh at Oak Beach, and then leaving her belongings in the vicinity of Peter Hackett's yard would allow him to avoid answering to Alex Diaz, Shannan's family, the hospital or the police about what happened to the unresponsive girl he was with, and he could avoid any serious legal problems that might arise and possibly put him in danger from Joseph Ruis. Everything Shannan knew about him would die with her, and any investigation resulting from the three 911 calls made to the SCPD that morning would lead to Peter Hackett.

 

[WINDSOR]

Prove it. That would be a hell of a lot better than continuing to slander someone's name who you have no direct evidence linking him to this murder. Do you want Pak to be found guilty or do you want the truth?

A: Pak was earning his living off Shannan's sex work. PROVEN
B; Part of Pak' remuneration was to protect her. PROVEN
C; He was if not the last one of the last people to see her alive. PROVEN
D; Shannan was afraid of Pak and was running away from him. PROVEN
E; Pak left Oak Beach, and avoided contact with SCPD. PROVEN
F; Pak had served felony time for human smuggling. PROVEN

I am not slandering Pak's name, he did that himself by his actions and behavior. I believe he is innocent until proven guilty, and officially he has been cleared by the SCPD.

This forum as far as I understand, encourages theories, opinions and suppositions by the members.

BTW you used the term 'murder' in your statement. The SCPD as far as I know have never called this case a 'murder' officially. None of the forensic evidence released as far as I know, prove conclusively a murder took place.

Do you have knowledge that a murder did take place?

 

[jollypup]

A: Pak was earning his living off Shannan's sex work. PROVEN
B; Part of Pak' remuneration was to protect her. PROVEN
C; He was if not the last one of the last people to see her alive. PROVEN
D; Shannan was afraid of Pak and was running away from him. PROVEN
E; Pak left Oak Beach, and avoided contact with SCPD. PROVEN
F; Pak had served felony time for human smuggling. PROVEN

I am not slandering Pak's name, he did that himself by his actions and behavior. I believe he is innocent until proven guilty, and officially he has been cleared by the SCPD.

This forum as far as I understand, encourages theories, opinions and suppositions by the members.

BTW you used the term 'murder' in your statement. The SCPD as far as I know have never called this case a 'murder' officially. None of the forensic evidence released as far as I know, prove conclusively a murder took place.

Do you have knowledge that a murder did take place?

I certainly do not have the knowledge a murder took place, nor is there evidence. Good catch. I should have said this death not this murder. Also I think we can both agree Shannon was likely "afraid" of Pak that night because of drugs she was on. I believe he was her driver for the better part of a year. She was also "afraid" of Gus when he told her the cops were on their way.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I certainly do not have the knowledge a murder took place, nor is there evidence. Good catch. I should have said this death not this murder. Also I think we can both agree Shannon was likely "afraid" of Pak that night because of drugs she was on. I believe he was her driver for the better part of a year. She was also "afraid" of Gus when he told her the cops were on their way.

Gus Coletti did not cause Shannan to be afraid. She was already in a panic state caused by something that occurred when she was with Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak at 8 The Fairway.

 

[jollypup]

Gus Coletti did not cause Shannan to be afraid. She was already in a panic state caused by something that occurred when she was with Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak at 8 The Fairway.

Did I say Gus caused her to be afraid? I did not. I said the behavior she exhibited when coming into contact with Gus seems to be consistent with someone who was afraid.

 

[Betty P]

That means that Michael Pak was the last known person to be with Shannan before she met her demise in the marsh.
It is my opinion that this is absolute and unequivocally the truth. This crime began with Pak arriving in Oak Beach with Shannan alive; and leaving when she was dead or dying.

So why did PH go to the trouble to make all the phone calls to Shannan's mother and to police?

 

[jollypup]

So why did PH go to the trouble to make all the phone calls to Shannan's mother and to police?

Depends on what you think his level of involvement is. Could be because he is a killer, could be just looking for attention/spotlight. I prefer the latter.

 

[Ellekay77]

Has anyone else asked how the police got inside of the Oak Beach Park in the first place? MP & SG needed a code to get inside the gated community. It doesn't sound like a place where the police have to go very often, so is it assumed they knew the code and were able to enter the code and drive on through?

If they didn't know the code, let's just say that by the time the police contacted dispatch to get GC's # (if they didn't have it on hand) then police contacted GC to get the code....(whether he gave it to them over the phone or came to the gate to enter it) ...that could easily explain one of the delays in the police's arrival after GC's call to 911.

Also, no doubt I'm sure they proceeded with caution. If they knew SG was running through the neighbor frantically, maybe they took time to shine a spotlight towards the beach areas, in between houses and/or moved at a slow roll as not to drive through the park and accidentally hit her if she ran out in front of the car, in addition to being on the lookout for her.

Just because Google Maps says it's "X" amount of miles from the nearest station doesn't mean that it takes exactly "X" amount of time to arrive based on speed limits and that's even IF there was a cruiser at the station.

You have to account time for possible delays, etc.. From the moment the call comes through is when the clock begins ticking. It's going to take a few minutes for GC to give the info to the 911 operator, they enter the info into their system...then they contact the appropriate emergency services, they take down the info from 911, they dispatch...It was 5 something in the morning, so there was probably limited LE on duty and that's if they could respond at that exact moment...who knows they could've been on the other side of Suffolk County patrolling or even finishing up another call.

We can't just assume they jumped in their car, leaving the station at exact second the call of the 911... hit the lights and drove 100 miles an hour to get there without any delays of some sort.

We just can't say EXACTLY how long it SHOULD have or have not taken them. IMO, they arrived in a reasonable amount of time based on what information they had and potential delays.

Did GC even tell 911 that she was claiming someone was trying to "kill her?" If that wasn't communicated in HIS call, she wasn't hurt or dead, so they might have just assumed she was drunk or high and didn't take the call as "high priority."

Yes, knowing what we know now, it should've been high priority, but question is... did the police KNOW all of the details at that time? The answer...is simply.. NO. It's a shame, but that's the reality of the situation given at that particular time of GC's 911 call.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know I'm sooo late to the game on this one, but a gated community doesn't mean a moat and fire-breathing dragons community. Boyfriend/"boyfriend" Alex states he just parked his car outside on the street and walked in. Other than that, I agree with 100% what you said.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I certainly do not have the knowledge a murder took place, nor is there evidence. Good catch. I should have said this death not this murder. Also I think we can both agree Shannon was likely "afraid" of Pak that night because of drugs she was on. I believe he was her driver for the better part of a year. She was also "afraid" of Gus when he told her the cops were on their way.

Did I say Gus caused her to be afraid? I did not. I said the behavior she exhibited when coming into contact with Gus seems to be consistent with someone who was afraid.

Shannan was not afraid of Michael Pak until after an event undisclosed to us occurred inside Joseph Brewer's house on that morning.

You didn't directly say that Gus caused her to be afraid, but the use of the word "also" when describing Shannan being afraid of Gus Coletti implies that you are placing him in a similar vein as Michael Pak, or Joseph Brewer for that matter, and I believe that they did cause her to be afraid.

Also, when you place the word afraid in quotes are you indicating that maybe you believe Shannan was experiencing an emotion other than fear for her life?

We know that Shannan was already in a panic state when she interacted with Gus Coletti. You are correct when you say that the behavior she exhibited was consistent with someone who was afraid, and my comment was intended to clarify the implication that her fear was universal and was only the result of using drugs. I believe that drugs may have exacerbated her situation, but the fear she felt was instigated by her interactions with Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak.

We know that there is no direct evidence that Michael Pak is either responsible or partially responsible for Shannan's death, but there are circumstances that lead many people, including myself, to believe he may be.