Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert

Discussion in 'Long Island Serial Killer' started by shadowraiths, Apr 29, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. hawkshaw

    hawkshaw Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,513
    Likes Received:
    1,164
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When things in Suffolk happen that were unexpected it is time for The Big Guys to get involved. I think SG running from the house was very much unexpected. That doesn't mean she was slated to be killed but the important thing is she thought she was. In the Oheka Castle case you have to remember is when the owner got shot he was supposed to be DEAD. Tom Spota jumped into both of those cases.
     
  2. NY Ranger Fan

    NY Ranger Fan Member

    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    18
    It was on one of the TSK shows that I just watched. It was a reporter riding through OB with the neighbor and his son, the name may have been Scalise.

    Do a search and the family name keeps coming up. The link below had The wife Evelyn interviewed and Tom Canning (who I know) mentioned. His name comes up in the SG door-to-door thing. I was on RM the day of the shooting that the article is about and all the bridge traffic was closed for about 3 hours.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/17/nyregion/driver-kills-li-constable-and-is-killed.html?_r=0
     
  3. Salsa

    Salsa Former Member

    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes it is! Mixing porn with the idea of death of females is more than morbid. That pastime activity should be seen as equivalent to watching animated child porn, it may not be real but it points to you being a sicko and likely predator. There is another photo on the twitter feed down a bit of a female running away from a predator in the fields naked with knee socks. I believe it to be a red flag. If I saw that in the home of a potential mate or friend, it would become an ex friendship.
     
  4. The Nomad

    The Nomad New Member

    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Can a mod please put a NSFW tag on this, or hide the pics/vids? Not cool.
     
  5. shadowraiths

    shadowraiths LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    2,876
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    BBM.

    I have long held the theory that serial killers can hide in plain sight in the BDSM scene due to the nature of a culture that promotes tolerance towards some of the "edgier" violent themes. What I refer to as "Outliers" (i.e., those who make up less than 1% of the scene). And, in this case I suggested a possible scenario, back in 2011, excerpted here to save some time.

    Outlier

    The outlier frequents the sex scene where he identifies and cases his marks. This sort would also follow his victims after the party, at which point he abducts them. The biggest problem with this scenario is, how does he get them to come with them? While he could use a cop ruse, I'm envisioning more of a blitz attack. Imo, that sort of thing would fit more with his psyche... the overpowering bit.

    The outlier is pretty much non-descript. In other words, those in the scene rarely realize he exists. One might even characterize him as a chameleon but he's not that either. If the killer turns out to be the outlier, people in the scene will remember him after the fact. Outliers don't truly fit in the scene. They aren't really part of it. They're just there bc they have a better chance at going undetected. Importantly, the outlier is a sexual sadist and they regularly engage in illegal and often sexually violent criminal behavior. Hence, their choice for the scene for their cover.

    In this scenario, and in the context of this case, the guy will try to keep his victims alive for a protracted period. Importantly, murder may not be his end goal. They could have succumbed to whatever torture he visited upon them. That, or, if/when he grew bored, he murdered them and disposed of their bodies. Since all four of the GB4 died from homicidal asphyxiation, specifically, strangulation, and since it appears a garrote was used ( link ), it is possible this guy is into breath play ( link ) and that they eventually died as a result of that. His motive for calling the families is to prolong the charge he got out of torturing and murdering the girls, by visiting pain upon their families. As with the rent-a-cop, the outlier views them as less than human. But again, his underlying motive differs.​


    That said, while I think the outlier theory is plausible, as a few "solved" serial cases have born out,I am doubtful this is what we're looking at. I raise it again to suggest that if these killings involve a scene related serial killer, they would lurk on the fringes of the scene as opposed to being publicly identifiable (i.e., vendetta guy).
     
  6. shadowraiths

    shadowraiths LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    2,876
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Park Dietz holds similar views:

    When he studied material collected by the Attorney General's Commission on Pornography, of which he was a member in 1985-86, Dietz became concerned not about the sexual content of pornography but about its violent imagery. The public should stop worrying about nudity, he believes, and concentrate on how often movies, television programs, and magazines combine images of violence with images of sex.

    He acknowledges that some people turn to sadism after suffering sadistic abuse as children.

    But for others, he says, a deadly seed is planted by violent imagery, seen at a formative age, most often on television and in movies. Dietz is convinced that a vulnerable youngster may watch a sexy slasher movie and become conditioned to sexual arousal through such images. When that boy becomes a man in his 20s or 30s, society runs the risk that he will seek sexual gratification through actual, not fantasized, brutality.

    "The system could not be better designed to create a nation with so many sexual homicides," Dietz says. "We pay for tickets to have this done to our children, and that amazes me." He says he wouldn't mind if every teenaged boy in America received a subscription to Playboy, and he's only partly kidding: "While they masturbated, they would be looking at attractive naked female bodies, instead of eviscerated female bodies."

    I tend to agree with him.
     
  7. fred&edna

    fred&edna Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,856
    Likes Received:
    17,437
    Trophy Points:
    113
    IMO... yes.
     
  8. maddalena1

    maddalena1 New Member

    Messages:
    676
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Perfect!
     
  9. NY Ranger Fan

    NY Ranger Fan Member

    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Coming from a math background, I see the outlier as something that skews the data especially in statistics. To me an application of an outlier in a SK setting would be a black or female killer. Look at almost any documented SK case from the past century, most are intelligent white males. They blend in with everyone else, they're not too good looking and not bad looking and also easily forgettable.

    Aileen Wuornos is a more recent female SKer. There were more at the turn of them of the 20th century, those who killed to gain access to money for the most part. This was family and strangers, as in tenants. The female tended to kill out of insuring their survival and less for the thrill of it.
     
  10. dc20015

    dc20015 Member

    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Isn't it a myth that nonwhite serial killers are rare and generally correspond to the portion of population? I thought there were studies on this. Anyone??


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. NY Ranger Fan

    NY Ranger Fan Member

    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I'd have to research it. You have to ID and catch a killer before you know what color he or she is. The only non-white I can readily summon up is Juan Corona whose victims were migrant farm workers in California.
     
  12. fred&edna

    fred&edna Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,856
    Likes Received:
    17,437
    Trophy Points:
    113
    IMO, I think the most important thing when comparing info/studies is to make certain they agree on the definition of "serial killer". But, anyway... I found this quite report quite interesting. It utilizes information from Dr Michael Aamodt / Radford University.

    Surprisingly, only 12.5% of US serial killers in Aamodt's database fit what most consider the typical profile — a white male in his late mid- to late-20s. While 92.3% of US serial killers (94.4% internationally) are male, only 52.1% are white. Only 27% are in their mid- to late-20s.

    From 1990 to 2010, the most recent year of data in the project, 52.1% of US serials killers were white, while 40.3% were black. The numbers don't change much internationally either. Worldwide, 56.2% are white, while 30% are black.

    "Note that when discussing the race or sex percentages, it is important to look at trends across time," Aamodt told Business Insider via email. "For example, if you combine US serial killers across all decades, 52% of serial killers have been white [and] 40% black ... However, if you just look at the past three decades: 37% were white [and] 60% were black. A very different picture!"*

    And, it also states,

    "The definition of a serial killer can also vary, just as the FBI's does from Aadmodt's."

    http://www.businessinsider.com/a-surprising-look-at-the-average-serial-killer-2015-5


    ETA: Website for Radford / FGCU Serial Killer Database Research Project:

    http://skdb.fgcu.edu/info.asp
     
  13. fred&edna

    fred&edna Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,856
    Likes Received:
    17,437
    Trophy Points:
    113
  14. shadowraiths

    shadowraiths LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    2,876
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Agreed. However, in this instance, I'm using the term, "outlier," in the context of the BDSM scene. So, you have your average bondage, flogging, dominance, submission, etcetera, then you have people who go beyond the edge players (ala outliers). Importantly, these "outliers" don't really care about the scene. They just use it to hide in plain sight. For example, John Edward Robinson, who used to troll USENET BDSM groups for victims, is just one such person.Then, there's David Parker Ray, the so-called Toy Box Killer. Though, there is no definitive proof he actually murdered his victims.

    These are but two of the list I've been compiling but hopefully it helps to clarify.
     
  15. Salsa

    Salsa Former Member

    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thank you for the in depth view that makes this very real. I always knew there was the regular porn fetish with domination, but had no idea it went to this level. I could never google torture stuff to investigate, I cannot stomach it and it makes me upset. I believe it was the daily mail that had the video running recently of a man who beheaded a girl's boyfriend and imprisoned her in the basement in a dog cage and they showed her in terror as he walked around gathering stuff for her kill. I wish I had not seen that. That is horrifying and the poor victims. I do not know how they were allowed to show that. It was too much.

    There does not seem to be anything on google about or describing these Vendetta parties. The link Ps149 gave went to road runner search and there were listings there.

    I just learned that there was a dark net around three months ago. I would never go even in curiosity because there is no search bar and you have to click links to see what is there and that is not happening. I do not want to see something I cannot unsee and my computer is full of weird things enough with my research on this case alone.

    Do they have the manpower to scour the dark net which I read is not the deep web which is mostly documents? It is a net of snuff, child porn, you name it. How would they follow these trails without ISP and trails? I am thinking some of the unknown serial killers would hang on this net.

    Thank you for sharing all that information.
     
  16. IndieCindy

    IndieCindy Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I thought the Gilbert girl didn't have a ride to the clients house, that is what the first few episodes of TKS said. But I read a news story that stated she had an "asian male" driver. Brewer gave this description to the police.
    ALSO> Don't serial killers start out by mutilating animals? Isn't that kind of a textbook thing? I went back and checked, starting with 1960, then in the mid eighties, there began a severe spike in mutilated animals that started littering the beaches. The weird thing was there were dolphins, some of which had their tails sawed off. When investigated, LE specifically said that they had at first thought it was bitten off by a predator but when examined closer was shown to have saw marks.
    Decapitated animals were mixed in with throat slashed animals. They were not one specific animal, there were chickens, dogs, cats, sheep, one of which had its throat cut (this one was found on a deserted stretch of road that the new jersey power and light company used) but was still alive when found. 2 of these dolphins (which were some of the first animals to show up)were gutted and stones inserted to weigh them down. Some turned up in bags, etc.
    The first animals that were weighted with stones, were near a point where there is a military post. Others showed up in Raritan, keansburg, atlantic highlands, atlantic point and a military site on the beach. It looked like Staten Island had none, its possible i just didn't find the stories of mutilations on staten island though.
    Was addressed earlier in a forum at some point? If the animal mutilations began in mid 80's would that mean the person was still a pre-teen or teen? Isn't that when serial killers start? So far from everything I have read, this guy is a classic Green River Killer type. The killings start and stop. They start when the spouse of the killer divorces,cheats, and stop when the killer remarries, & repeat...
    The thing the Green River Killer did that was an attempt to throw off police is "plant" things that made the killer look like something other than who he was, he planted other person's gum wrappers, cigarettes, etc so that it threw police off and contaminated the crime scene. One thing the animal killer did, was make the scenes look like a devil cult was performing rituals. It appears though, this only occurred when the police started making comments like, "it looks like teens performing cult rituals were sacrificing animals." So the news and police went with that story, a band of blood drinking devil-worshipping teen-agers were running rampant. Ridiculous. Unless the police were doing the same things the animal killer was doing... "planting" a story, to throw the public off. I'm sure they had their reasons if they did. I'm sure that the FBI is probably talking to GRK for tips though, just like they approached Ted Bundy for tips on the GRK. One thing I thought was nuts about the GRK, the police put his IQ out there at like 81,or 82. Why did they do that? Seriously, that just makes the police look incompetent, and would have made me personally embarrassed to say police cannot catch someone with a below average IQ. I think this suspect is probably already known, police just need to put the final nail in.
     
  17. NY Ranger Fan

    NY Ranger Fan Member

    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    18
    On the mutilated dolphins, certain parts of fish bodies as well as dolphins are delicacies in certain ethnic groups. Fins of sharks especially, so a dolphin is not a stretch. How do you catch a dolphin? Most are snared unintentionally in nets while fishing for tuna and other cash catches.

    Mutilation of farm animals is more associated with cults. It is possible to buy chickens (Agway would order them for locals) easily, sheep and goats a little harder but cash is king. There is no shortage of farms out east on LI.

    Cats and dogs are the victim of choice by sadistic children, most of which never become a SK. I would be interested to see a timeline of local pet killings close to the Gilgo case. It may fall into an adolescent male age range between age 12 and 16. Do the math going forward and the age of the human killer may be narrowed down.

    Other precursors may be bed wetting, abuse as a child, fire starting and an overbearing parent, mostly mothers.
     
  18. NY Ranger Fan

    NY Ranger Fan Member

    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I'm aware of the dark net and have no desire to even explore it. There is an undercurrent I'm better off not knowing too much about. I don't think our killer is part of it, but I could be wrong about it. Dark net activities I believe to be more social and SKers tend to be lone wolves.
     
  19. Salsa

    Salsa Former Member

    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Here is a sick case from the Dark web and a young girl was killed live on it for viewers. He was caught thankfully. How the arresting officers kept from killing him must have been tough on them.

    [FONT=&quot]At some point in time, Scully asked his girlfriend (an Indonesian 17-year-old, ex-prostitute) to get him a couple of young girls (one aged 9, one aged 12). She did as she was told.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]According to Scully’s GF, nothing untoward happened for the first couple of days, but then on the second day she returned to the flat to find the girls were both wearing dog collars. This appears to have been the start of something nothing short of horrific. Over the following months, Scully, under the pretense of “helping street kids,” took in a number of young girls.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]A minimum of 8 girls, aged from 18 months up, were tortured and, at least one, was then murdered. All live on camera.

    There is also animal torture sites on the dark web.

    http://www.sickchirpse.com/peter-scully-red-room-disturbing/[/FONT]
     
  20. dc20015

    dc20015 Member

    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Peter Scully is the worst. Saw an interview with him and this guy has no redeeming qualities.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice