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Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Tricia, Sep 6, 2016.

  1. SuperDave

    SuperDave Former Member

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    Hi, guys! Sorry I missed the chat, but I just got through watching the recording. I just want to hit a few points and see what you all think.

    1) It was clear to me that Ron Walker, the FBI man and one of the most experienced investigators involved, still think the Ramseys are involved some way.

    2) I'm puzzled as to why Bob Whitson was given so much credence, since he was only peripherally involved with the case. His comments about disposing of the cord, tape and paintbrush handle goes to something I've been hammering at for a long time: who's to say that there were any of those things LEFT to dispose? The duct tape could have been a used piece; the cord could have been one of Patsy's slings taken apart...so many possibilities.

    3) They finally brought up the other DNA profiles at the scene! YES!

    4) Bob Grant said flat-out that he couldn't understand Mary Lacy's rationale for clearing the Ramseys. He also said what I've been saying for a while now: that you have to take the varying results of the handwriting examinations with a grain of salt, because it's not a real science.

    5) Tom Haney admits he told Patsy things that weren't true. I guess that's one for RST, but he didn't seem to imply that he thinks she's innocent. We know from PMPT that he thought she did it.

    6) Dr. Steven Pitt is my new hero in this case. He finally put into words what a lot of us have been saying. But there was one in particular that leaped out at me, and that is his response to people who say, "but how could parents do that?" He said that he's dealt with people who were squeaky-clean on the outside who had done terrible things, and that you can't fool yourself into thinking that someone can't do something because you don't think you can do it, when you yourself don't know until you're in a spot like that. Lord knows we at websleuths have dealt with that thinking too many times to count.

    So, any questions? Any answers? Any thoughts? Any reactions? Any food? (I'm hungry!)
     


  2. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/video/burke-s-version-of-the-story-761687107687

    Previews

    Burke Ramsey, brother to JonBenét,
    tells Police what he saw and heard the
    day of his sister's murder.

    ?: Before Christmas, Christmas Eve
    was there anything that was
    troubling JonBenet.
    You know, that she was upset about or anything?


    BR: No, not that I can remember.


    ************

    re: PR's reaction:

    BR: Well she was like, like over reacting
    cause I heard downstairs ......
    she was like oh my gosh, oh my gosh,
    oh my gosh, (pant), oh my gosh ..., oh my you know and

    So my Dad's like okay, calm down
    Just like over reacting.

    ?: You ever seen your Mom like this before?


    BR: No.


    ?: Did it scare you?

    BR: ya
    ...........................

    BR: I just remember, a small part, when they were downstairs,
    my Dad and my Mom, were downstairs.
    My Mom was really nervous, like, ... stuff,
    my Dad was trying to calm her down.
    Said, okay, just call the police.


    ?: Did you see that?

    BR: No I just heard it ..........


    ?: Did you ever peak downstairs to see what's was going on?


    BR: No.


    ?: Did you ever leave your room?


    BR: No.


    ?: Even for a little bit just to see what was happening?


    BR: No.


    ?: Why not?


    BR: Because I was so scared.
    I don't know. Until my Dad like comes and
    tells me what to do, whether or not, do anything
    ........ just stay here.


    ?: What were some of your worries and your concerns?


    BR: I worried about how JonBenet was and ah
    worried if they would
    find her. That's all I remember being worried about.


    ?: When was the first time that you found out
    what the problem was?


    BR: Uhm, probably when my Dad came in.
    is when. I'm guessing previous to that


    ?: And what were some of your guesses?


    BR: something really valuable had gotten stolen, or.
    That JonBenet was kidnapped was one of my guesses.


    ?: Really?


    BR: Ya.

    ?: Why'd you guess that?

    BR: ya, Because I heard my Mom say "where's my baby"
    and
     
  3. DrollForeignFaction

    DrollForeignFaction New Member

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    SuperDave, I agree with this: "His comments about disposing of the cord, tape and paintbrush handle goes to something I've been hammering at for a long time: who's to say that there were any of those things LEFT to dispose?"

    The amount of cord used in the staging is ridiculous. When you bind someone's hands to keep them from struggling, you tie them close together, not a foot apart! And there was no reason for the cord attached to the garrote to be so long. I think they were just trying to use all of the rope so it'd be one less thing to dispose of.

    Other thoughts: I do recommend people read Pam Archuleta's book What The Pilot's Wife Knew. She was the pro-Ram friend on the show. It's a very quick read and there's nothing super revelatory but she does give an interesting account of what the Ramseys were like after the murder and some of the aftermath for the people around them. Even she admits she had some doubt about their innocence (unlike what she said on the show, that she never questioned it). If you have amazon prime or kindle unlimited you can read the ebook for free.

    I'm seriously wondering where these tapes of Burke actually came from. Dr. Phil (CBS) had them, A&E had them, Dateline NBC had them, and certainly Investigation Discovery will have them too.

    Burke claimed that he heard the 911 call being made from his bedroom but denied he was in the kitchen when the call was made. And yet his lawyer got the tape and he told the Grand Jury that it did "sound like" his voice on the recording. Funny how even he can hear it, but Lin Wood can't! It'll be interesting to compare that testimony to what Burke admits to on Dr. Phil. Since it was pre-taped he doesn't have a chance to change his story if necessary. And the 911 operator says that she definitely heard something after Patsy tried to hang up, and she heard a male voice and a faint 3rd voice. Well, who else could the voice belong to? That was the most interesting part of the show for me.

    Also, someone posted in the chat that Lin Wood is on twitter spinning like a top. He hated this documentary and is threatening to sue! Ha, good luck with that. All they did was present actual case evidence, even some of the stuff Lou Smit came up with. You have to look at the "replies" section of his twitter feed, it's a hilarious read.
    https://twitter.com/LLinWood/with_replies
     
  4. Sunshine4Me

    Sunshine4Me New Member

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    SuperDave, it sounded to me like Dr. Steven Pitt was saying they thought John and/or Patsy knew JBR was still alive when they strangled her, to cover up whatever led to the headblow and likely the molestation also. Which is what I've always believed but had thought they believed she was already dead or that Burke did the strangulation before they came on the scene. Was that your understanding?
     
  5. OliviaG1996

    OliviaG1996 Member

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    You nailed it, SD.

    3.) I was beyond relieved when Ron Walker, I believe, mentioned all of the other DNA samples found. The IDI-spinned A&E special conveniently forgot to mention that bit. I wonder how many intruders Mary Lacy or Alex Hunter think broke into the basement window that night.

    5.) Would it really be considered a lie when Tom Haney told PR they had scientific evidence pointing towards her being involved? The ransom note and fibers spoke volumes and are crucial pieces of evidence that point to her possible involvement.

    6.) Stephen Pitt said it perfectly when he mentioned how he's seen perfectly upstanding citizens commit acts they'd never thought possible for them. Sometimes people need to be reminded how seemingly "perfect" families can be, and have been, anything but. Pitt also stressed how he wholeheartedly believes this was an accident that escalated to something unthinkable, which I completely agree with.
     
  6. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    http://www.usmagazine.com/entertain...-operator-detective-finally-speak-out-w438955
    JonBenet Ramsey Murder's 911 Operator, Detective Speak Out for First Time on 'Dateline'
    Sept 10, 2016

    Kimberly Archuleta, the original 911 operator from the morning of December 26,
    1996.
    In an emotional interview, Archuleta admitted,
    “That has been the hardest call I ever took.”
    She continued, “I think that’s because there was
    something inside me that said, 'Something’s not right.'"
    She continued to reveal that, even though Patsy attempted
    to end the call, the line was still going and she could hear
    “another voice.” The former 911 operator continued,
    “The third voice was a male voice. … I knew there was a third distinct voice.”
     
  7. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    Lin Wood‏@LLinWood [video=twitter;774473897945231360]https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/774473897945231360[/video] @gb0923 @JoshMankiewicz What is a shame is that I do not know your name & address & you likely have no assets. Otherwise, I would sue you.
     
  8. Occams Razor

    Occams Razor Member

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    Just wanted to say: the Dateline episode was AMAZING! So glad to see some truth after that joke of a program that aired the other night (the one starring John Ramsey). Funny how none of the shady characters--DA Alex Hunter, Mary Lacy, John Ramsey, etc--would agree to appear on the Dateline episode. I also loved the statements made by the FBI guy. He put a lot of things in perspective, such as: parents are guilty in 75% of cases like this. NOT an intruder or stranger. That alone should open some eyes. I'm equally glad they didn't waste time implying that Burke did it. I've always thought that was highly unlikely at best. That boy comes across as a sweetheart, unlike his parents.

    It's crazy how two programs can come to such drastically different conclusions on the same case. Just goes to show how much power the wealthy have on the media. John clearly had no control over what Dateline aired, whereas the other show might as well have been produced and directed by him, lol.

    All I could think while watching tonight was, what if the Ramseys had been poor minority parents with a child found dead in their basement? Would they have ever been given the benefit of the doubt with the ransom note and all the other evidence? No, they would've been separated and questioned immediately. No PR team or CNN appearance. No books or TV specials. No family member allowed to take bags of evidence from the scene afterward. Just swift justice.

    I think that's the most infuriating part of it all (besides the injustice to Jonbenet of course). That wealthy people can buy their way out of justice via powerful attorneys, PR teams and private investigators hired by themselves. And the media does jack squat to gather the facts independently. All except Dateline, anyway. I want to hug the producers myself. :loveyou:
     
  9. BoldBear

    BoldBear Active Member

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    You think the reason why there was extra rope used in her binding was so the killer didn't need to leave a small bit of rope sitting beside her? Okay.
     
  10. eileenhawkeye

    eileenhawkeye Active Member

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    Excited to see his reaction after The Case Of airs!
     
  11. SuperDave

    SuperDave Former Member

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    That's a new way of looking at it.

    It was something I didn't know about.

    Isn't it pitiful to watch that SOB flop like a fish? You're a punk, Wood. And you're a liar.
     
  12. SuperDave

    SuperDave Former Member

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    I'd have to go over it again, Sunshine4Me, and you know I will. But he seemed to suggest that they didn't know she was still alive.
     
  13. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    There can't be any justice for JBR.

    IF Patsy did it, well she'd dead and you can't sue a corpse.

    IF Burke did it, well he was 9 yrs old and there wouldn't have been a conviction for a 9 yr old. He might have been taken away and hospitalized or who knows...

    Most don't think JR actually did the killing, though he participated at least to some degree in the coverup.

    Exactly what do people think is going to happen here? 3 people were in that house. No one outside of those 3 people knows exactly what happened that night and 1 of them is dead and the other was 9 yrs old at the time.
     
  14. Madeleine74

    Madeleine74 Of course it's my opinion, who else's would it be?

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    I think it's highly likely that it appeared, for all intents and purposes, that JBR was dead and they didn't realize that she wasn't yet. She was certainly near death after that blow on the head and she wasn't conscious and to a lay person it would probably look like she was already gone.

    Anyway...

    If anyone is thinking there will be some admission by anyone in the Ramsey family that this was all a coverup for something bad that happened within the house and by someone in the family, there will never be a confession. They've invested 20 years in this coverup; they're not about to disclose what really happened.
     
  15. Sunshine4Me

    Sunshine4Me New Member

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    Thanks, maybe I misunderstood him. I told the family to be quiet but they just didn't get that I needed my full concentration for that show 😞
     
  16. SuperDave

    SuperDave Former Member

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    Well, they refused to be interviewed. I'd say it's obvious why.

    Yeah, I thought about that, too. Maybe the lie wasn't that, maybe it was just his wording was so broad that it could have been anything.

    As do I. Any of us can say, "Oh, no. Not me. I'd always do the right thing." That's just prejudiced thinking.
     
  17. questfortrue

    questfortrue Active Member

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    :giggle:

    Me too. :popcorn: :D

    Did you notice his tweet received 3 likes? Do you think those were from JR, BR and Dr.P?
     
  18. SuperDave

    SuperDave Former Member

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    Maybe we'll all get lucky and it'll cause a brain hemorrhage! I would have said heart attack, but you have to HAVE a heart first!
     
  19. madeleine

    madeleine Well-Known Member

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    until dad comes and tells me what to do...hmm
     
  20. Mountain_Kat

    Mountain_Kat Heca, firimar!

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    Not in this case...not for me, anyway. I can tell you for a fact, without any hesitation and with complete conviction, I would never shove a broken paintbrush handle into my dead 6 year old daughter's vagina to cover up an accident. Not to save myself...not to save my other child...not under any circumstances. Not ever. Period. End of story.
     

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