Post verdict discussions #2

Discussion in 'Allison Baden-Clay of Australia' started by marlywings, Jul 20, 2014.

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  1. Bekazzled

    Bekazzled New Member

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    I know I'm risking stones being thrown my way here (ducks) :thinking:... However, since much of the media attention (and attention here) is on TM driving GBC to murder and having to admit she played a role in it... I don't agree.

    I don't say she's smart, gifted, talented, funny, "Better than Allison" etc. Rather, I think she was fairly vulnerable and susceptible to GBC, as many other women seemed to be, and with the help of his manipulation was able to foresee a future with him. Even if she “started” the affair this implies that GBC gets out of blame for the affair. He was the married person (as I understood it, TM wasn't married but had a "partner" where the relationship was dissolving) and he's the one who's broken his vows. At least TM left her partner/husband when she realised it wasn’t working.

    If this wasn't a murder trial, and GBC had divorced Allison years ago and married TM (as TM expected), how much mud would we sling TM's way? None, because there wouldn't have been a murder. A murder that was committed by GBC - let's not forget how unfathomable an act this is, what sort of person it would take to physically do what he did, how shocked people around him were when Allison went missing. I think it's important to keep an eye on the real devil here - GBC. By blaming TM, are we joining in with all those in the past who have given him leniency? Think of his friends who perhaps thought, "Oh, I'll lend him the money, he's in trouble but it's not totally his fault, so, OK". He's an expert at blaming anyone but him. I think all of GBC's actions are entirely his fault and his failure to see this led to what happened.

    On the other hand, why do we romanticize and even adore "famous couples" who came together when the husband married his mistress? I'm thinking Bogart & Bacall, Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward... these famous men cheated on their wives with these women ("Bogart was still miserably married and his early meetings with Bacall were discreet and brief, their separations bridged by ardent love letters" - his Wiki entry) and left behind their children and shocked first wives. Johnny Cash, his wife and June Carter also come to mind. Even Angelina Jolie is now being cut some slack for “breaking up” Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston (I thought, “It was his decision.”) Before he died, some reporter asked Paul Newman to give up the secrets to his long, happy marriage. They didn't ask him about the part in the beginning where he kept promising he'd marry Joanne, then changed his mind, and it went on for ages and in frustration Joanne almost married Gore Vidal instead. (Gore at that point identifying himself as bisexual.)

    I'm referencing famed Hollywood stars, who are after all just people with faults, traits and a tendency to cheat (at least at some point in their lives). So why do we condemn the woman when the man is the one committing adultery? And in the case of GBC and TM, GBC not only cheated but committed murder. IMO, there's only one person to blame for Allison's death: Gerard Baden-Clay. I admit I'm not fond of the BC family either, from what I've heard, but I wouldn't attack them on the street - because I can't say for sure what level of involvement they had, and it must be horrifying to learn your son's a murderer. In a lot of cases like this, the parents don't even really BELIEVE what their child has done until a good decade or two after the murder. And that’s in cases where the parents seem to be decent people who did a good job of raising their child, who would later go on to murder someone.

    As to sisterhood, I feel like women need to stop condemning other women so much. Perhaps this has all touched a raw nerve, I don't know. But an example close to my heart: my best friend of 20 years - since early high school - recently married a man who was cheating on her with his ex. She found out and they broke up for nine months, then got back together. I knew for a fact that he was still cheating on my friend with multiple others and made the mistake of telling her. Surely, I thought, after 20 years of solid friendship she has the right to know about this. Instead, she started cutting me and all of her female friends out of her life. Towards the end, she spoke with panic over any female he worked with as a b**** who would probably "steal" him. I kept thinking, "How do you steal a person? He's doing all the cheating." He is a cop, by the way, and you can't imagine the reaction she had when he was assigned a female partner. Without even knowing a thing about this female partner apart from stalking her facebook page, my ex-friend decided she was the devil. This woman was going to "take" my friend’s husband. She went on a witch-hunt over this woman for about six months. Finding nothing, she still continues to hate her and any female that could be part of his world. She is now still married to him, her only friends are his family, she turns a blind eye to his cheating, blames random women for trying to "steal" him, and is bringing up a baby more or less alone as he "works late".

    And this is a woman who I never, EVER thought would shoot the messenger.
     


  2. SwiftSleuth

    SwiftSleuth New Member

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    Absolutely awesome post and I couldn't agree more. <modsnip>. I was about to write something similar but I couldn't have come close to expressing it as well as you did. Well Done!
     
  3. laserdisc10

    laserdisc10 Active Member

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    What a waste of a quarter of a million dollars. Imagine what a quarter of a million could do for the Dickies as they struggle in their twilight years to raise three traumatised, orphaned little girls. Sixty Minutes squandered that quarter of a million on TM. Yet 60 Minutes didn't put the hard questions to TM. They didn't ask, for example, What possessed you to go into Allison's home in her absence? How could you possibly hope to justify that? You slept with Allison's husband in Allison's home and that was ok with you? You think that was acceptable by anyone's moral code? Do you even have a moral code, TM? You claim the social media is 'horrific'? You can't understand why people despise you? You twice went into Allison's home in her absence and slept with her husband -- isn't that the same as burglars who defecate in the homes of those they've robbed? Yet you panicked when Allison entered the gym, by your own admission. You weren't game to walk up to her then, were you, to say you'd slept with her husband in her home? So you're a coward as well, aren't you? Why should anyone have any sympathy for you, TM? You're alive, Allison is dead, murdered. Your children have a mother and father, alive. Allison's little girls have neither father nor mother. Would you like to take this opportunity, TM, here on national tv, to apologise wholeheartedly to Allison and her family -- to all the viewers listening to your whining attempts at self-justification?

    No, 60 Minutes dealt TM a very soft hand and allowed her to sit there opening and closing her mouth like a basking shark. Most people would have had to go and have a shower after that programme
     
  4. Karo

    Karo Active Member

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    I think they did everything they could to help thier son and brother beat the charges whether they believe him or not, however I don't know the family or anything other than what the media showed us, so I can't really say anything about them. No one had the right to portray Allison as anything other than who she is, the wife and mother that GBC killed but I don't think for a second that the family were not coached in what to say giving evidence. I wasn't expecting them to be positive at all about Allison and they weren't.
    Painting all of them as liars or evil etc doesn't really change the situation and perhaps in the future they may decide to say more.
     
  5. ford71

    ford71 Member

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    I agree laserdisc10.

    I watched it last night (curiosity got the better of me from reading here).

    Soft interview, bunch of garbage really - should have expected exactly that in hindsight.
    Weak questions, weak answers.

    And the stupid barefoot walk through the lapping water.
    And the nodding and the shaking head
    And the part where the interviewer was talking to the camera while driving - where was she going anyway?

    Garbage and a waste of cash.... we all know where that money could have gone.
    I haven't watched 60 minutes in a long long time, looks like I'll be back doing the same.
     
  6. Oz Jen

    Oz Jen Well-Known Member

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    Hey, can we just let this be about Allison. Balanced viewpoints are always welcome, however I don't think anyone here is looking to denigrate or hate just to be a hater, as some have recently said. A lot of us have been here from Day One. It has been an exhausting few years. I believe we are all free to comment on tendered legal, medical and psychological facts as they come to light, then throw in our own insights, based on life's experiences. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, popular or not. Emotional and personal perspectives are intertwined with documentation. I hope this will always will be. It is what makes us stronger as individuals in a challenging world. This is the collective conscience and the very essence of WS. IMOO. Carry on.
     
  7. Oz Jen

    Oz Jen Well-Known Member

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    Everything you have said: Ditto! Well put, Olli.
     
  8. AAAA

    AAAA New Member

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    Great post. You've put my exact thoughts down for me. Everybody is accountable for their actions no matter what degree of involvement. Gerard, the B.C's, Toni, the other affairs.
     
  9. MsAnais

    MsAnais Verified Clinical Psychologist (AU)

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    So well said, Fuskier. It's all about choice. And she chose to put her own needs before her own children's.........

    Even if the sexual attraction to him was super strong, as an adult woman you make the choice NOT to pursue it. We're always going to be attracted to other people, that's a given. Then we decide whether to pursue it or not - as adult women.

    But her behaviour is like an adolescent girl's, with no care for the consequences or fall out.

    I, of course, understand that someone like TM is propelled by deeper urges such as unworthiness, low self esteem, family of origin issues etc etc - and a possible personality disorder judging by her very odd affect in that interview - but even those deeper drives are no excuse. That's the whole deal with being a conscious adult - we're not just following all of our instincts in every moment. Especially when we have children.

    But for me, to claim a HUGE sum of money and profit from repeatedly decieving another woman - a woman who has now DIED - is just so disgusting. Like a vulture, picking over the bones.

    I have NO IDEA how she sleeps at night. :facepalm:
     
  10. toe

    toe New Member

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    Just one question, could you verify how much TM donated to the Baden-Clay children from her interview?
     
  11. toe

    toe New Member

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    What's your feelings regarding TM having SEX with Allison's husband in Allisons home on 2 separate ocassions?
     
  12. they'll get you

    they'll get you CHRIS. P. BACON

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    If TM didn't have anything to do with Allison's murder why was she given immunity and escorted to and from court by police and at what point did she realise GBC murdered Allison, did he actually tell her or was it something he said?
    Have we seen her no. 5 statement?

    Exept Mr and Mrs Dickie who were gracious throughout, every surviving parent involved in Allison's murder should stop and take stock of their actions and words. Sometimes it's to late to retract things said and done but oh the selfish damage to others and their children has been horrific, stop and try to imagine the pain of Mrs and Mrs Dickie during that court case. Please imagine the pain!

    Sisterhood.....I'm not going to get into a scrap fight about what happened after the fact but I'm damn sure of one thing and I've said it before....the likes of TM is every married woman's nightmare. Full stop.
     
  13. toe

    toe New Member

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    I'm pretty sure the world knows GBC was responsible for Allison's murder, as the world knows TM was the mistress of a 3yr affair with GBC.
     
  14. amatteroftime

    amatteroftime New Member

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    Very well written and completely fair and true. I agree 100%, people need to think about their actions and then live by the consequences, I too believe she suspected from first finding out that he had something to do with it otherwise why delete everything??? You hit the nail on the head..
     
  15. amatteroftime

    amatteroftime New Member

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    Shower , drink and a gargle to be honest, basking shark LMAO :)
     
  16. wewillgetyou

    wewillgetyou Well-Known Member

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    (Respectfully snipped by me)

    I think this is worth repeating. Very well said. That's what really gets my hackles up - she's making a profit from a murder. Why can't this be taken as making money from a crime. She was a direct player in what unfolded. If she wasn't then the prosecution had no need to drive her to and from court for the committal and the trial.
    Why is TMcH any different to others who have tried to profit from a crime and had the mooney seized.
    I feel for her boys but honestly she made her bed when she began the affair with GBC, let her lie in it.
    Sleep with dogs, get fleas !

    It's all well and good to say if it wasn't her it would have been somebody else. I think it's fair to put the shoe on the other foot - if it wasn't for GBC I have no doubt TMcH would have hooked up with somebody else.

    I also would like to know how much from that interview she donated to the Dickies. I'm sure the Dickies would decline her donation but that's for them to decide. Or TMcH could donate anonymously to the children's fund if she had any conscience AT ALL !!
     
  17. FigTree

    FigTree Well-Known Member

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    I was just thinking ....
    If this interview was done prior to the verdict being handed down - and I think that is was...
    Technically, GBC was accused but not yet found guilty.
    So I am assuming that this might be the way that it works to get out of profiting from crime (as yet to be convicted).
    Though, it certainly put hold to any of the hard and fast questions asked of TMH.
    Possibly wrong - but just a thought.
     
  18. FigTree

    FigTree Well-Known Member

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    I have looked through the Bail Hearing document and cant find TMH phone records.
    Did we have a copy of those? or the last 4 digits of her phone number would help?
    Just looking through the phone records again.
     
  19. ford71

    ford71 Member

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    Not really directed at you but, Does this also apply to the Womans Day interview of Frost??

    Did nothing wrong other than finding herself working with a clam, but I'd bet this magazine paid her for her words.
     
  20. Pi Thoughts

    Pi Thoughts Well-Known Member

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