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Discussion in 'Long Island Serial Killer' started by Just K, Mar 5, 2012.

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  1. scandi

    scandi New Member

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    Very Interesting Inspectr, I just wanted your off the cuff thought about this. If you were to walk up close to this guy in say, a store, and he turned around and looked you in the face, how would you describe him to us?

    His demeanor, look in his eyes, how dressed, tall or not, stocky, clean shaven - just what you think this guy would be like in person. Ta
     


  2. inspctrgadget

    inspctrgadget Inactive

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    I sent you some picture examples. Short, completely blank look at first, but quickly smiles brightly when talking to you. Dressed in camo pants and a t-shirt, or similar looking hunting regalia (or jeans and a dirty t-shirt from outdoor work), but clean shaven. Rather an unremarkable guy, but definitely the consummate outdoorsman that other men would look up to.
     
  3. Aleph

    Aleph New Member

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    inspctrgadget, I somehow missed seeing your theory the first time you posted it. I only read it now when scandi quoted it. This is incredible work and very compelling. I'm glad that you've forwarded it to LE. Thanks for sharing it with us.

    One question for you and anyone else who wants to jump in: My understanding is that it is almost unheard of for a serial killer to commit suicide. (They're sociopaths, they love themselves too much, etc.) The one exception that I know of is Andrew Cunanan, who was more of a spree killer. Is there a reason you think that the LISK might be an exception?
     
  4. goathairjones

    goathairjones New Member

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    Just K,

    No, he didn't kill himself. He was killed on the job. I really can't get into it too much because I don't think we are supposed to sleuth random people. But let me say this: He owned a company, sold it recently and then was doing work for another company that was in the same business as the company that he sold. It is a hazardous job but most people in this profession know exactly what they are doing and are very careful. I think it speaks volumes that he was killed doing something he was very experienced at doing. Just goes to show you how reckless he was.
     
  5. concentric

    concentric New Member

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    Just wanted to say that the "Ghost Adventures" crew did a program on a supposed serial killer in Long Island, that dated back a long time ago. The killer put the bodies underwater near a lighthouse in the Long Island Sound. I think that they said that some of the people were chained, so that in the rising tide, they would be drowned.

    So, I think that is the origin (history) of the tunnel paintings that were referenced earlier.
     
  6. En Passant

    En Passant Inactive

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    For some reason I couldn't get out of my mind that the first 4 victims found:

    Maureen....missing 2007
    Melissa.....2009
    Megan......2010
    Amber......2010

    The fact that 3 of the victims name start with M......

    Police Identify Four Bodies Found in Long Island Video – 5min.com

    Now was the first real news conference asking for help etc.

    It Stated that these victims were taken from another location & placed there......Freud says nothing is an accident....
    3 names beginning with m & than Amber, was this some form of alphabetation?
    Placing Amber .... with the 3 M names so a correlation is made???

    Just a thought, was wondering if this was mentioned at all...also wanting to point out LE was asking for help they seemed desperate to get any info at all & we have not seen anything like that after this period, which leeds me to think they do not need any help or leeds.

    Maureen was missing since 2007..Just way to long from the recents for her to be grouped together like this.....does he use an alphabitizing system???? Is this part of a system he developed to keep track of victims?

    Just food for thought....& also this move which would show to be a sadistic side of SK like the fact he called victims family....Kinda simuliar act.

    http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runni...erial_killer_facebook_pages_atlantic_city.php
     
  7. truthspider

    truthspider New Member

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    complicated it's not. mary his mother's name is, 22 her age was.
     

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  8. dcgrumpy

    dcgrumpy New Member

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    Oh, I thought you meant the bodies were moved from one dump ground to another.

    Spota said was that they were killed in another location and transported there.
     
  9. En Passant

    En Passant Inactive

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    My contribution to this THEORY thread is:

    If GC acted in SG best interest instead of him decieving investigators SG would be amongst us today.What I think went WRONG.

    1. The evidence via security that COULD have SUBSTANCIATED GC Story....Not there.....Very lucky I bet for GC
    2. Why leave your Wife in harms way over people who clearly looked dangerous?????
    3. Why isn't EC coming forward to tell her side of the story?
    4. What happened to GC dire needed cane in the last special....he was walking just fine, didn't even need to look at the ground to insure his safety....because thats what people do when they use canes & than go without.
    5. Could that cane have been a sign .... Maybe GC did try restraining SG and got hurt which led to cane useage. VERY POSSIBLE
    <modsnip>
     
  10. WI1987

    WI1987 Member

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    Isent GC a former LEO? Suffolk County Police Dept? NYPD?

    I recall reading somewhere that he is a retired cop and was assigned to the crime scene unit.
     
  11. dcgrumpy

    dcgrumpy New Member

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    He had knee surgery less than a week before the 48 Hour Special.
     
  12. En Passant

    En Passant Inactive

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    This is the Theory Section , right?

    Oh okay than I am in the Right place.

    Fact is GC is in EVERY SPECIAL talking it up.....he is not at the peek of his game anymore. His words are not worthy SG is Deceased he could have helped, I have seen more thamn my share of FACK CROCODILE TEARS & He is a CON MAN IMO.....BullCh**ter...big time.

    My theory is if GC HELPED SG LIKE SHE PLEADED SHE WOULD BE HERE>

    <modsnip>

    AS MUCH AS YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE GC OFF LIMITS .....He put himself in the public eye constantly & I DO NOT BELIEVE HIM.

    SO THAT IS improbable, that would be biased.....he is on every show from here to the links from whatever country Foriegn & other far away reporters. Does GC make money for doing them?????

    <modsnip>

    Well I feel a thread is DUE SOON

    <modsnip>
     
  13. dcgrumpy

    dcgrumpy New Member

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    I'm not trying to make GC off limits. You asked a question about the cane. I thought you actually wanted an answer to the question.
     
  14. BKS

    BKS Sleuthhound

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    As posted in NY Times and I agree:

    The killer’s attraction to a single out-of-the-way area suggests to several experts that he has an intimate knowledge of Jones Beach Island in general and Ocean Parkway in particular.

    “He did not stumble upon that location,” said the former profiler, Jim Clemente, who retired from the Federal Bureau of Investigation in 2009 as a senior supervisory special agent in the agency’s behavioral analysis unit in Quantico, Va. “He has some familiarity with it.”

    The summertime disappearances suggest several characteristics. “There may be a seasonal nature to his connection to the area, or to his fantasy and ritual,” Mr. Clemente said. “It may be the time his wife or kids or parents are away for the summer. There are many possibilities.”

    The burlap sacks provide another clue. He could be using them either because they are part of his killing ritual or because they are the easiest cover he can find. Burlap, however, is no longer common, and it might be easier to trace than a plastic bag. “To me, it takes away from his forensic sophistication and criminal sophistication and adds to the possibility that he is more interested in this ritual aspect,” Mr. Clemente said.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/22/n...ets-a-personality-profile.html?pagewanted=all
     
  15. 21merc7

    21merc7 New Member

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    I'm still thinking this is prostitution/drug gang related. I think the "ring leader" gets rid of the girls that can longer bring in the money; too drugged out to bring in money; too old to bring in the money; causing too many problems; or try to cut loose from the gang and go it alone. There would be a clean up guy or a few to take care of the dirty business of getting rid of the no longer useful girls.

    Watching the show that someone linked on another thread, where the living girls talked about the 2 lifeless girls in the bed and the one guy saying he did some bad things and he had to leave, just strengthened that theory to me.

    All jmo as usual.
     
  16. Peter Brendt

    Peter Brendt New Member

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    I agree with the analysis, but that doesn't mean, he lives at Oak Beach or that his primary hunting ground is there. It merely means, he knows the area (either from childhood memories or rather, since I suspect him to work in construction, from the time of some construction work he did there).
     
  17. Peter Brendt

    Peter Brendt New Member

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    Wasn't that two lifeless girls story in the AC case? And the TV show was Dark Minds including the alleged SK named "Thirteen"?
     
  18. Seaslug44

    Seaslug44 Active Member

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    Yes.

    Not sure how that is related to this case since there never has been any proof of a link.
     
  19. Peter Brendt

    Peter Brendt New Member

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    Nope, that discussion was on the "connections" thread, like 2 or 3 dozen times. AC still has a much higher kill frequency than LISK and a different signature, but the connection thing comes still up now and then.
     
  20. Emre E

    Emre E Active Member

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    This is going to be long. I recommend you take your coffee.

    There is so much botch and the case spans such a broad period of time, any theory is destined to be shaky. For the below theory of mine which is built on mind manure, I had to chalk off SG. Weird accident! Even writing that gives me a gut wrenching feeling.

    I don’t know much about the legal retention time for 911 calls (90 days or so?) and how much this period can be extended, under what circumstances, but based on the current official version of the events, I understand the death is ruled to be an accident. Did Mr. John Ray file any action for a subpoena? Or an injunction for ensuring the audio is preserved? This voice in me says "No." If he had done it, he would rub it on our faces when he got the air time. I don’t mean to offend anybody, but this is the impression I got from him. His website was a particular disappointment for me.

    The big question; (asked by several others in the forum) how come the renewed S&R efforts (Aug 2010, Dec 2010, Apr 2011) were concentrated on the opposite direction of where SG is last seen?

    I wonder what was the condition of AC when her body was recovered. She's dumped in September (As my theory goes below, maybe to the end of the month) and found after autumn. A closed burlap bag could severely hinder the blowfly/maggot action. I don’t think the burlap bags were tied up, but I still wonder her condition when she was found.

    I prefer to think based on the possible MOs, instead of the drive behind the behavior. People use the term "think like a killer" and I used to find some insight in that, until I read about Edmund Kemper. Fellows, a normal person can’t think like a killer. Until the killer is caught and the motives, triggers are clearly set forth, I say trying to explain the MO is the best.

    I'm surmising a theory below, but it stands on glass heels. Any blow will shatter it down. Because without the 911 call audio, everything is speculation. So, let's speculate.


    SCOTT KIMBALL – MAURY TRAVIS HYBRID THEORY (GB4 ONLY)

    "I don`t think it`s a coincidence that four bodies ended up in this area."
    Police Commissioner Richard Dormer

    I'm going with Peter Brendt on the race. The perp is black, somebody connected (i.e. laid eyes) to the very first victim MBB through a third person by jail time, geographical proximity, kinship, gang membership etc. It is a possibility that the perp is the person who mugged her. Simply, he mugged Maureen, pondered awhile and concluded that he's going to be caught and lose face to the person through whom he found out about MBB, he went back, found Maureen and killed her. He knows Maureen, but she doesn’t know him.

    This person somehow comes across MW and MB through same/similar connections.

    The fact that the girls are all from a compact vicinity, pushes me to link up with the Scott Kimball case. Perp sees the girls, wants them for himself.

    Not a charming person, has a timid look. Height medium/tall, well built. Age bracket, as of MBB's disappearance in 2007 is 25-30 (Perhaps closer to 30, for giving enough window to JT). Not a kill addict. Simply can duck for months. Sexually driven and killing is just destroying the witness.

    Although MB's family lawyer refers to acts of violence, I think these are acts that don’t cause serious bleeding. Burlap is not watertight and I presume a truck is involved in transportation. So, I say no stabbing, no mutilation. Girls may have been kept awhile but the bodies (perhaps rinsed) are quickly dumped. After the dumping operation, the truck is ready to do anything (go to work, park outdoors, pass through police blockades etc.) without requiring a thorough wash.

    I respect Gus Goletti. He's a decent, smart man. Dave Schaller is free from suspicion in my mind. Rest of the personage that cross our eyes in this in this case is a joke.

    Erin Moriarity's questions. Oh, boy!

    MP testifies "I slept in the SUV", while the fact is he talked six times with Shannan throughout the night and he gets a "Flying Colors Certificate" for this. And we are trying to theorize something that makes sense.

    I don’t see Dormer as an evil, corrupt official. I see him as a sweet old man.

    SCPD holds back a lot of information but I don’t feel they are sure of what to hide and what to publicize.

    Dormer says; all the victims are asphyxiated. Dude, you looked at the bones you deducted asphyxiation. That's cool!

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobil...03?_=8deda5a8117c871c8fb9861137dd50db46b71568

    A killer does not ASPHYXIATE, a killer smothers, chokes, drowns, strangles.

    Spota says; The similarities in the disposal of their bodies and other VERY CRITICAL FORENSIC EVIDENCE...
    http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/clerk/cmeet/ps/2011/PS121511.pdf

    I infer: The bodies (GB4) were left intact, they have ligatures on, ligature may not be a rope, it may be a wire. But I don’t understand why this info is kept from the public.

    I feel Spota is lavish with the word "critical". In my standards "critical" ranges from ligatures made of a traceable material, to a tie with the initials of the perp on it. Or Spota refers to any other kind of evidence found on AC? The question again; what was the condition of the body? I am assuming AC's bones were intact, perhaps certain tissues of her body or more. Fresh bones would show clear impacts of stabbing.

    It's not much probable to have a stabbing with no bone involvement. If her body/bones are "intact", it means in terms of violence he still is in the early stages, didn’t feel the need to go the extra miles of deviance. But looking at the short period of time between Megan and Amber, it can be said that the sex addict is evolving into a kill addict. Possible impotence issues can be considered, related with age, heavy smoking, workplace chemicals etc., like I said we can only work on mind manure instead of solid facts.

    The perp is connected to construction business, not with serious qualifications but with skill on a certain task. (Perhaps waterproofing) He's not a resident, but somehow used the Ocean Parkway for business extensively and he directly observed the functional value of the dumping site. Perhaps enjoyed a night with a hooker in the place.

    Worked in a kind of long project in the area. There are a lot of homes, recreational sites, jetties around. I believe he worked in an outdoor construction project (a swimming pool, a jetty etc.) over a noteworthy period of time, like a month or so.

    Google 40°35'39.93", 73°30'36.76"
    Nothing related, just an eye catching example. What is this?

    One example of such kind of long term construction jobs is the "Robert Moses Causeway Rehabilitation Project", spread over a long a period of time with intermittent stages, which might hint for the dates of the abductions.

    Interesting thing, I come across with the descriptions "in burlap bags" and "wrapped in burlap". These are two different things. Below is a use of burlap for waterproofing concrete. This is burlap cloth not burlap bag.

    http://gluedideas.com/content-colle...pecifications-for-Waterproofing-Concrete.html

    I understand the bodies are put in burlap bags, not wrapped in burlap

    http://www.maxim.com/true-crime/long-island-murder-mystery

    Somebody asked about the logistics of that in the forum. The answer is yes, there are large size burlap bags, or we have bodies tied up to fit into standard bags. My special thanks goes to SCPD here. We can’t be sure of any single thing.

    I believe the Craiglist Killer moniker is a shallow attribution. Media is missing the fact that "online escorting" is the new industry standard. I guess this is the fifth CLK they named. Media people are rushing too quick to pin a moniker.

    Yes, the girls are on Craiglist and other sites (I found the actual ad of MBB, not giving here to avoid enormous hits, perhaps the police is monitoring. Let's not create extra difficulty for their work)

    As far as I know there is no certain indication that he picked "all" girls through Craigslist. That explains why LE - hoping they did their job correctly - failed to find an IP lead. AC may be the one and only actual Craiglist victim. A step in MO.

    The perp probably did some time in jail for a petty crime, in the bracket from July 9, 2007 (MBB) and July 12, 2009 (MW), after the jail time he evolved into a professional mugger/robber.

    After the MB taunting experience, which is claimed to be halted by the perp after a local news coverage – may corroborate his proximity – he must have been intrigued into the significance of cell phones and gathered some information on how even cell phones with no GPS gimmicks can be used for geolocation. That may be the key to his preference of "make'em leave the phones". This also explains a gap between MB and MW. He simply observed if anybody is coming after him. (May be away from his residence during this period)

    Also another issue here is; he must be imagining these girls mean nothing to their families, probably this the result of a personal experience. That refers to either JT or he saw a white prostitute gone missing and nobody in her family cared about it. This may explain a lot of his behavioral features in the crimes (like avoiding a decent effort to bury the bodies), but the truth is different, these girls are from fairly upright homes with financial distress. I find Megan's mom and Maureen's sister particularly smart.

    Another interesting thing; is the method in the last two cases (MW and AC). He approaches the victims, talks to them on the phone for long periods. Perhaps a tactic to drain out the batteries? When the cell goes dead or girl hints about her cell will be dead in minutes, he makes his MO move "Let's talk face to face, I'm in the neighborhood/parking lot."

    My alternative MO theory is, he listens to the phone carefully, whenever he picks up rattle and clicks suggesting the cell is connected to the battery charger he makes his move. Girl leaves the phone behind, without a specific request for that. I don’t think they would go out for a job without phone, no matter what the situation is.

    I think both Megan and Amber were in an "almost done" deal. They didn’t go for the job, they went to take a closer look at the client.

    Here we should talk about the logistics of subduing a 5'.5'' heavily built woman with no alarming appearance/sound within the parking lot of a hotel.

    Looking at the case in general "nobody would care" is good enough, yet I still believe there is a certain method involved in taking them over silently. Involvement of extreme muscle power should be considered.

    I believe there is snuff and the tapes/pictures are still kept, he will keep them as long as he feels safe from LE. Destroying them would be a big decision for him.

    The biggest blow to the theory is the little sister Amanda. The family lawyer says he is led by Amanda and the MB's stepfather "He's white." Although this seems fairly strict, I sense something in that tickles my mind. "He's white" remark is done so abruptly, that it may be actually be a taunting attack to lure him back to communication.

    Extending the scope wider than the GB4;
    Bludgeoned Asian Male, can be linked up. There's the possibility that the Asian male, petite and slim was actually "beautiful" and the killer couldn’t even notice she was a he. Rage factor can be involved here.

    Without the 911 call (transcript or better the audio) all will be speculation. My theory above is as equally powerful as the "Shannan went crazy, took off her clothes and shoes, ran into the bushes, got tangled, drowned" explanation.

    Wish a nice day for everybody.
     
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