Post your theory-****NO DISCUSSION****

Discussion in 'Lisa Irwin' started by Tristan, Oct 18, 2011.

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  1. Cher352

    Cher352 Well-Known Member

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    The one main reason I discount an affair that night is because of what we heard this week. That is that JI was expecting to be home around 10pm but ran into problems with the job that made him run late. If the lady from next door was over until 10:30pm I doubt DB would be having some man come over after then when for all she knows JI could arrive home any minute.
     


  2. Money Girl

    Money Girl Inactive

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    Baby was kidnapped and sold.
     
  3. djm41

    djm41 New Member

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    I am trying to look at this from every angle, so I am throwing another theory out there.
    I noticed that there are alot of people counting on what the drinking/neighbor friend saying as being factual. Basing their timelines on that. What if something happened to Lisa while she was over there? Not sure what, but if she were there when something occurred, she might not want whatever they were BOTH up to found out. She might be willing to lie/cover for DB if she was worried for herself as well. Also, the boys might have seen or heard her there that night, and DB wouldn't want them telling that. That would definitely open a whole new can of worms.
     
  4. PattiMc

    PattiMc New Member

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    This is my first post - hope I do this right! Here is the way I think this event played out. You've got 2 moms sitting on the front porch on a pleasant evening, relaxing w/some wine. One has put her youngest to bed way too early - problem is, 10-month olds know the day's not over at 6:40. Lisa's probably complaining about it and loudly. I can see the boys (probably the oldest) repeatedly coming to the door, trying to get DB to do something about the noise. You know, "Mom - we can't hear the movie!" After about 3 times of this, DB gets really irritated. Lisa's isn't cooperating with her "adult time" plan. She then goes back into the house carrying her wine glass with her (already somewhat looped) determined to get the kid to shut up. She then offers a few sips to the baby (this on top of the cold meds & benadryl) thinking this will do the job. The baby probably didn't feel very well after that, laid down and slept. The wine eventually comes back up, and she aspirates the liquids and dies. I imagine DB realizes what's happened at 10:30 when she goes back in the house. From that point on, it's all about covering it up, however that's accomplished.

    It's also very possible that DB (in a self-centered way) partially blames the kid for complaining so much, "forcing" her to do something about it. DB could very well have conjured up a story to tell JI that his son was responsible for an accident that killed Lisa. That would account for JI's numbness and silence.

    Any thoughts?
     
  5. Kamille

    Kamille Shine bright like a diamond

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    Welcome PattiMc!!

    :wagon:

    I do see the possibility for a certain amount of chaos in the home with 4 children aged 8 and under and two women drinking on the porch. So your theory is as plausible any any other. Welcome aboard and keep posting!
     
  6. Kamille

    Kamille Shine bright like a diamond

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    I've been trying to come up with a theory that doesn't include the parents with the information that BS and JT are spinning out there. I think I can see now where they're going with it.

    Okay so here's the theory adding the new cell phone call to MW at 2:30ish am information. Whether you believe that someone from the home actually dialed the call, or that somehow that number was on a contact list on one of the phones and the phone "pocket" dialed the number while it was being either stolen or hidden, it directly conflicts with the time the neighbours claimed to see a man walking away from the home with a baby.

    DB claims that LE showed her a ping map showing that the phone pinged "very near" to the house. LE has spent countless hours searching for the phones in and around the house so there has to be some truth to that. At this time, we still do not know if LE could still ping the phones after the 911 call or whether they were going strictly on the ping information from that 2:30am call.

    So in this scenario, around 12:00-12:15am, a man abducted Lisa from the home without leaving any fingerprints or other evidence. They removed her clothing down to just a diaper, took her clothes and 3 cell phones and walked out the front door, down the driveway that separates the Irwin home and the neigbour's home and around the corner with her in their arms. Last seen walking south on N Chelsea Ave by LP and her husband at 12:15am.

    The neighbour who had been over drinking earlier went in at 11:30pm according to BS and noticed that the lights were off in the Irwin home. So within a half hour of the neighbour being outside and noticing this, the abductor went into the home either via a window or door, neither of which have any evidence of an intruder, turned on lights (without leaving prints), abducted Lisa, removed her clothing in or outside of the home, took the clothing, stole 3 cell phones and walked, plain as day, a couple of houses down her street with her in a diaper and turned the first corner where he was seen by LP and her husband walking down the middle of the road I assume (there are no sidewalks). So by leaving no prints he must have been wearing gloves with his t-shirt and dark pants. I suppose he put the gloves, Lisa's clothes and the cell phones in his pocket? Did the pants have any pockets?

    LP's husband noticed him coming up the street while he was in his driveway on his way to work. The man walked up the road, passed him, and walked away from him. LP watched from the window. There is a bright street light right in front of their house. LP at least can not give an accurate description of the man. Did her husband give more detailed information to LE since he was actually outside within feet of the man and they're not talking about it? He certainly is not taking to the media. He should have very detailed information if the scenario that LP depicts is true. Did they say anything to each other? Was the baby sleeping? Awake? Moving at all?

    At around 2:30am, a phone call was made from one of the "stolen" phones very near to the house. So if you put both of these together, then the abductor never left the immediate area for at least 2 hours. Did the abductor actually go into one of the houses on that street or somewhere else very near to the Irwin house? We would have to know the ping radius to know how close LE would have to look.

    Also at that 2:30am time frame there was a dumpster fire in the neighbourhood. Not sure what evidence may or may not have been found there. DB claims that LE showed her some burned clothes. Was the dumpster close enough to be within the ping range for the phones? Could the abductor have taken Lisa to a home in this area? Could the clothes, gloves and phones have been dumped in there? LE have gone through the dumpster contents at the landfill and I guess they didn't find any evidence of that because they still had the phones listed on the search warrant for the house and they removed clothing that may or may not match the description of what Lisa was wearing during the search. So it looks like they're still trying to find her clothes as well. Dumpster fires are pretty common and might have nothing to do with any of this.

    Then we get video of white blob emerging from the "woods" in the same area around the 2:30ish time range again. Only problem there is that you can't tell if the person is male or female, young or old and whether they are carrying anything. Not to mention, there are no "woods" in the area. So white blob was probably just walking down the street. But unless the FBI can enhance that video, it puts in another element of doubt that mysterious people were walking around the area during that time frame.

    Then we jump to 4am and we've got a man who was walking with a baby in a diaper about 3 miles away. A man returning home from work on his motorcycle sees the man with baby walking on a sidewalk near an intersection. This witness gives a more detailed description and has identified the man as Jersey from a photo line-up. This conflicts with the original description of "man walking with baby" from 12:15am because he was originally described as tall, thin and shiny head bald. Jersey is none of these things.

    So we're looking at a tall, thin, bald(ing) abductor who took Lisa and the phones at around 12:15am, stayed in the area for at least a couple of hours, either made a call at 2:30am with one of the stolen phones to MW, or MW's number was on the contact list of one of the phones and the phone pocket dialed it at that time. After this the only siting we have is that somehow the diaper clad baby ended up 3 miles away, with Jersey or someone who looks like him, wearing the same type of clothes as the original abductor, walking down the sidewalk near a usually busy intersection around 4am. The same time the 911 phone call was made.

    Not one other person either walking, looking out their window or driving around that night saw a man in a white t-shirt with a diaper clad baby walking down streets in plain view.

    I don't know...it doesn't really work for me. Maybe it needs some tweaking with a couple more witness sitings and some mud thrown at MW, the pink haired girl who doesn't know who answered her phone that night. :waitasec:
     
  7. Marah

    Marah Active Member

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    Not sure how or what happened but I think someone was trying to contact the teen through MW's phone.
     
  8. Kavya01

    Kavya01 Well-Known Member

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    More and more I am thinking the mom inadvertently smothered Lisa, already with difficulties breathing due to her cold, while co-sleeping in her drunk state.

    Lisa may have even rolled to the floor after dying -- the scent the dog hit on.

    Father finds this scene and both cover up this accident in a panic. They call lisa's brother on a cellphone to come take the body. They then while prepping their story panic about cellphone records. Then decide to get rid of the one phone the call was made on, then figure that might look more suspicious than if ALL cellphones were "stolen" And decided to ditch all of them. they give them and the baby to the brother who dumps all of this in the river. If he weighed the bundle down smartly enough this may turn into a cold case unless the police have a good lead on the baby carrier and from their latest search warrant results.

    Thinking of you, baby lisa. It 's so sad :(
     
  9. Blackspeare

    Blackspeare New Member

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    Any thoughts on that cell call made to that person in Kansas City from one of the missing cell phones from DB's house? The woman said she doesn't know who answered the 50 second call, which seems strange to me. More important is where that call originated, but the police won't say!
     
  10. kathryann

    kathryann Well-Known Member

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    I honestly think this could be it. Nothing else makes sense to me. Someone knew she was home alone drinking and took the opportunity to take the baby and sell it. At least there would still be hope that the baby is with a loving family safe.
     
  11. Leila

    Leila Active Member

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    I'm just posting this as a remote possibility because the thought occurred to me.

    Both JI and DB have a background of failed relationships. DB is still married, but separated from her husband and has a son from that marriage. JI was never married, but was in a relationship with the mother of his son and is said to have been ruthless in obtaining custody of his son when that relationship was over. The father of DB's son hasn't seen his son in two years, and the mother of JI's son hasn't seen her son in two years.

    If DB is unhappy and planning on leaving the relationship, and knowning that it's likely that JI would fight for custody of Lisa as he did with his son, she might arrange for someone to "kidnap" Lisa and to keep her safe somewhere until DB and her son are separated from JI.

    Likewise, if JI is unhappy and planning on leaving the relationship, and not wanting to go through a custody battle again, he might arrange to have Lisa "kidnapped" and kept safe somewhere until he and his son are separated from DB. The fact that Lisa disappeared on the first night that JI worked late, seems hinky to me.

    I know this is a complicated scenario, and if either DB or JI arranged to have Lisa kidnapped for their own selfish reasons, it's a scenario doomed to failure. But considering their backgrounds of failed relationships, it's something they might consider without realizing it would never work.
     
  12. twall

    twall Well-Known Member

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    I think the parents are innocent and an IDI did it.
    It has to be someone who knew JI was at work and was going to be staying at work. It is my understanding JI worked a regular day shift and the job he was doing was side work. I find it strange he stayed so late if he had to be at his regular day job on Tuesday morning. My DH works a day job and often does side work but never that late on a work night. 10:00 at the latest on a work night is what is the norm for my DH-which is when JI told DB he would be home. Was he intentionally misled about what the job required so he would be out late and DB would be in bed so Lisa could be abducted without JI being home? Who else was at the job site? Did the intruder have a lookout to make sure JI was not on his way home? Why would DB let the boys sleep with her if JI was expected home and would want to go to bed?
    And that danged phone call...

    JMO
     
  13. Linda7NJ

    Linda7NJ Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what exactly happened but I believe mom knows full well EXACTLY what happened.

    Why else would she be behaving the way she is?

    I would be on the news every chance I got to beg for my child back.

    I would let LE speak to my other children, dog, anyone they wanted to speal to. I would let them saw my arm off for a blood sample.... whatever LE needed, they would get from me.
     
  14. AbbieNormal

    AbbieNormal Runs With Scissors

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    First the mom gave baby Lisa cold medicine at 6:30 when she puts her to bed, then starts drinking, forgets when she gave Lisa her medicine and gives it to her again. She gets completely wasted and gives her meds again. She staggers into Lisas room to give her one last dose around 10:30 and discovers her dead or near dead from overdose.....

    jmo
     
  15. shaye

    shaye New Member

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    I agree and think that DB knows exactly what happened to little Lisa.

    And my theory on the mystery man walking down the street w/a baby in a diaper (if that even happened) was possibly JI or some other person DB knew like a relative/lover and unfortunately, it was to dispose of Lisa somewhere undetected.

    Everyone in the Country knows now what happens if you put a body in a trunk of a car. So, if this indeed happened it was someone disposing of Baby Lisa while DB was home staging the scene. I certainly hope that's not the case but I would not put ANYTHING past DB and I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth. Do we even know for sure Baby Lisa had been sick w/a cough or cold....or is this just another story coming from DB?!?

    She has changed her story too may times and in my opinion she has not done one single thing to help try to help find her precious baby, if anything to me she's hindering the investigation w/all these bogus stories and not talking w/LE. She needs to cut the crap, tell the truth so her baby doesn't end up like little Caylee lying alone in a swamp for 6 months like she's trash.

    I think DB paid close attention to the Anthony case and she's making sure to cover her tracks or try too, DB reeks of a KC Anthony wannabe, like saying she's "grieving" so she can't talk to the media!! Give me a break!! Poor baby Lisa and those poor little boys. :furious:
     
  16. justathought

    justathought Member

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    I don't know where else to post this so will go here. I was in KC Thursday and couldn't resist. Drove through and around the neighborhood. It is nice older neighborhood..the Irwin house was perhpas a little less kept up than some of the others but not bad. The neighborhood had a good neighborhood vibe. I liked it. Without solid leads, there are a 1,000 places or more a body could be so it's easy to understand why searching would be a needle in a haystacke. Gave me a better understanding of how LE is going about it. As shown by the video, the area under 210 near the river is just a wild land...endless possibilities. Because the neighborhood is large, compact folks out and about at what ever time wouldn't be unusal...this is a working a neighborhood with probably some retirees thrown in. More than before I think a kidnapping is possible...even though I don't quite understand the parents reactions in all of this. This baby could have been observed by dozens in theighborhood or even visitors to the area...one thing I wondered...did the mom take the baby out for strolls. It is that kind of neighborhood.... someone could have looked for the opportunity.
     
  17. Trino

    Trino Well-Known Member

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    If Lisa is alive, how is it she hasn't been detected? Certainly, showing up with a new 10 month old child should create suspicions. If a "new" parent said a child was adopted, this should raise a red flag because an adoption isn't just a sudden thing - "new" parents know well in advance. Could L have been taken abroad? Maybe. I'm guessing security doesn't look well at children's passport photos, especially when they travel with an adult and in a car.

    If L is not alive, where could she be? I'm still betting on the river - less than a mile away. Although there is much undeveloped land, I think it's mostly been searched. If L is in the river, there's no chance her remains will be found; if they ever are, there will be no evidence left to be used in court. If L was buried, determining a cause of death will also be next to impossible. In either case I'm thinking the parents will be off the hook. No way would a jury convict w/o a body.
     
  18. ela_ss teacher

    ela_ss teacher Member

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    I guess I'm feeling cynical today but this is my honest to goodness theory.

    I have no idea what happened to baby Lisa. If she turns out to have been kidnapped, I wouldn't be surprised. If she turns out to have met harm at the hands of someone she knows, I also will not be surprised.

    That said, my theory is that this case will go very cold. I don't forsee any break in this case. I feel that Lisa is GONE, never to be seen or heard from again and nobody will ever admit responsibility, be charged, or pay for whatever happened to her. I no longer get excited with every strange twist, turn, and additional player that is introduced into this cluster. Aside from the fact that we are we dealing with a missing child, we're dealing with people who LIE, CHANGE STORIES, and have things to HIDE.

    Because of this, I fear that Baby Lisa is in heaven and NONE of us except for the one(s) responsible will ever know how she got there.
     
  19. justaparent

    justaparent Well-Known Member

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    My theories change as the (so called) 'facts' emerge, but they all include guilt on the part of DB, along with indifference on the part of the father. Listen to interview videos without watching the footage, it's Susan Smith all over. Fake facials and fake tears -- but audio that confirms the truth.

    --A drunk/drugged out mom takes baby to bed with her and rolls on baby, smothering her. Then must cover it up, and does so with family's help.

    --Mom drops baby, causing death, and maybe doesn't even realize it for awhile if indeed she was drunk/drugged.

    --She said she took anti-anxiety meds, maybe she felt that a small dose would calm the baby and make her sleep... but OD'd her.

    This couple does not appear to be close. Dad's indifference could be the result of mistrust of DB, but he's supporting her publicly. At this point, I don't believe he was directly involved, but my feelings on that flip back and forth.
     
  20. justus4all

    justus4all New Member

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    It is very strange ...IMO...strange behavior for a parent to have a missing child and then refuse to cooperate with the LE, cancel interviews where the parents could be on TV and pleading for the return of their child, but saying instead, they are too "exausted" to plead for her return, to refuse interviews of their children, where a clue they might remember, help give them leads, and help solve this case...

    To me, these are all STALL tactics...because they don't want their child found...

    For the parent/s to break into sob...then not cooperate....are opposite extreme behavior...

    A lot of drama is going on here....

    This drama does not fit ...parents who are desperately wanting their child back..

    This drama fits...parents who are hiding something.....who do not want the truth to come out....

    And so the question IS....why don't they want the truth to come out????

    The LE knows so much more about this case...as the parents actions are very transparent...

    So my theory is....Mom wanted to drink...baby crying..she gave her too much "something" to MAKE her sleep...and the baby died...then panic hits....cover up..calls were made on cell phone...have to get rid of cell phones...and the baby..

    all my 2 cents and my own opinion..
     
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