Potential Pros Problems and an NG Verdict #2 **LIST ONLY NO DISCUSSION**

Discussion in 'Caylee Anthony 2 years old' started by butterfly1978, Apr 24, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. butterfly1978

    butterfly1978 New Member

    Messages:
    2,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I am playing devil's advocate here, as much as I beleive that Casey is guilty and as much evidence as the state has and as incompetent as JB may seem, Casey could be found not guilty. I was floored when OJ got off, I was sure that he would be found guilty but he wasn't.

    Sadly the states case is circumstantial and although many people have been found guilty with much less, people have been found not guilty with much more.

    I would like us to discuss holes in the states case, and evidence they do not have. PLEASE LETS KEEP THIS CIVIL, and if someone posts something and you believe is inaccurate please post a link to refute it, I don't want this thread closed, but we need to look at both sides.

    Problems I see at this time, are the lack of Casey's finger prints on anything from the crime scene. I also think it is a problem that CA and GA cleaned the car yet no decomp or hairs were found in the vaccum. I do understand that the state can argue that it was several moths after the car was cleaned that the vaccums were taken however that in its self could be a problem.
     
  2. Loading...


  3. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

    Messages:
    52,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Please list any problems you see in the SA's case against KC. No discussion, just list what you see as a potential problem.
    If you don't see any problems then you probably won't post in this thread.
    Don't call names and keep your opinions constructive. if you state a fact, link it up.
    If a fact is incorrect and not linked, please feel free to post the link with the correct information.

    If you want to discuss the various aspects of the case strengths, there are 3,966 threads in the Caylee forum and a good many of them deal with the evidence.
     
  4. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

    Messages:
    52,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg[/ame]
     
  5. sleutherontheside

    sleutherontheside Retired WS Staff

    Messages:
    9,875
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This coupon offer is good for one free spaghetti dinner for each item or list posted.


    This offer is revocable and is not valid for use.
     
  6. nort

    nort New Member

    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe this is what will be a problem for the Prosecution IMO this is Casey in a nutshell.
    If anything happened to Caylee under her watch this would explain all of her behavior after the fact. It would not be considered a mental health issue as far as standing trial but she clearly displays all of these characteristics and I believe they will be used in her defense. Even if it were an accident that she covered up these behaviors below may explain why she was able to do that. Along with the fact that I dont believe she ever, especially when it came to Caylee, wanted her mother to be right about her being an unfit mother. I started to bold some of the finer points and realized they all fit her. IMO

    I'm ducking now......

    [edit] Aggressive narcissism
    This is Factor 1 in the Hare Psychopathy Checklist, which includes the following traits:

    Glibness/superficial charm
    Grandiose sense of self-worth
    Pathological lying
    Cunning/manipulative
    Lack of remorse or guilt
    Shallow affect
    Callous/lack of empathy
    Failure to accept responsibility for own actions.
     
  7. notthatsmart

    notthatsmart Former Member

    Messages:
    1,543
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jb says Kc has a compelling reason for her actions. If it is compelling, this might be a problem for the state. IMO
     
  8. notthatsmart

    notthatsmart Former Member

    Messages:
    1,543
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The overwhelming amount of harrasment at the Anthony home. I have never seen anything like this. Some jurors may feel sorry for GA and CA. I think this may have bearing on the penalty phase. Normally the victims family would be for the death penalty, but this case is different. To sentence Kc to death would punish the victims family. Could be a problem for the state. IMO
     
  9. nort

    nort New Member

    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think the prosecution will have a hard time finding a jury thats not tainted based on how this thread is going. IMO
     
  10. MidAtlanticNative

    MidAtlanticNative New Member

    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I was going to post my thoughts on the Casey / Melich-Allen-Wells interviews in the Yuri Melich thread a few (several?) weeks ago, but that thread was pulled. And today, I was just about to post in the 'Potential...NG Verdict #1' thread when it was closed. Is the universe trying to tell me something? :waitasec:

    Anyway, here's attempt number 3:

    When reading the above referenced transcripts and listening to/watching the corresponding interviews, I was amazed at the near constant interruptions whenever Casey was speaking. It doesn't look, read or sound as though the investigators were giving Casey much of a chance to provide information or answer questions.

    Before you flame me, let me also say that I realize Casey talks in circles and lies with abandon. I realize that tensions were high, everyone was tired, and the investigators had already endured (prior to recorded interviews) enough Casey nonsense to choke Godzilla. Cecybeans had a great post about this in section #1 of this thread, which I was quoting when the thread got pulled. Thanks cecybeans!

    But - - I'm a firm believer in the idea that most people are uncomfortable with long stretches of silence when in close proximity to others. Particularly "Chatty Cathy" types like Casey who crave being the center of attention. In my opinion, the investigators should have given Casey more speaking time in the formal interviews. If they were silent, Casey would feel she had no choice but to talk, talk, talk. Maybe she would have spilled something of value, maybe not. Who can say?

    My point is that these recorded interviews could be used by the defense as an attempt to show a jury that Casey *tried* to tell the big, mean men everything she knew, but they wouldn't let her. And some people (potential jurors) might empathize with an 'authority figures gang up on the little guy' type scenario.

    Of course, the prosecution will rebut any such claims by detailing the useless back-and-forth the investigators experienced while trying to find a missing child (!), and explain that (again, stated better by cecybeans) by the time the recorded interviews took place, they had been around the world and back without a single souvenir for their trouble.

    So, for the reason stated herein, I think these interviews could be a problem for the prosecution.



    (Disclaimers: I don't believe for a second that Casey would have blurted the truth - no matter how much rope she was given, nor do I have a bone to pick with LE. And yes, I think Casey is guilty and I feel there is more than enough evidence to support a guilty verdict.)
    :)
     
  11. thedeviledadvocate

    thedeviledadvocate New Member

    Messages:
    761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I harbor no ill feelings towards Orlando LE. I am of the opinion however, that the following are some things that may be problems for the prosecution come trial time.

    The clicking sounds JB claims he heard while talking with KC at the jail.

    The overall performance of LE for the first 24 hours after the initial 911 call
    A. Allowing CA to take items from the bag of stuff LA brought back from the apartment KC had been staying at.
    B. YM taking 3 hours to arrive after he had been called.
    C. Not sealing off the Pontiac for many hours after arrival.
    D. Allowing KC and LA access to the car, unsupervised.
    So, overall in the first 24 hrs, I think that LE may have handled things a little differently, and by not doing so, this could be a problem for the prosecution.

    The discarding of bench notes (which is apparently proper protocol) by the officer handling the contents of the white trash bag.

    The failure of any mention of the white trash bag sitting in or near a dumpster for 30 hours to Dr. Vass. Dr. Vass was told the white trash bag had been handled using the proper protocols and chain of custody, which it was, AFTER it had sat in or near the dumpster for 30 hours. This knowledge may have changed the way Dr. Vass handled the examination of this evidence. It might not have as well, however, this may be a problem for the prosecution.

    There is no documentation that LE searched the woods on Suburban dr other than in response to RK’s calls. If they did search those woods at anytime prior to RK’s calls, they obviously were unsuccessful in their searches. If they did NOT search those woods prior to RK’s calls, why didn’t they? Either way, this could be problematic for the prosecution.

    Not checking the items contained in the white trash bag for prints until many, many, months later.

    The passing of notes from KC to whoever, if this is not allowed, did not a member of LE break the rules in order for this to happen?

    When processing the Pontiac, OCSO did not process the entire car.

    I think LE has tried to do the best job they could possibly do in this case. Still, I think the things I listed above may be a problem for the prosecution at trial. 13,000 pages of discovery, with that kind of a work load, some mistakes are bound to be made. I am not ripping LE here, I’m just saying that in my opinion, the above items may cause the prosecution some problems.
     
  12. butterfly1978

    butterfly1978 New Member

    Messages:
    2,793
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    While I think LE did an excellent job in this case. I feel that the hair found that belong to the lab tech may lead the jury to think that evidence was mishandled.

    I think that the prosecution may have a problem explaining Casey's lack of emotion if she had just killed her daughter and was seen on tape with TL at the movie store totally calm, and if KC had not just killed Caylee then they will need to explain where they believe Caylee was June 16th, because if the defense is going to say KC had no reason to believe that Caylee was endangered or missing they will use the party photos and video from the movie store to prove that, and say see she was out having a good time not because she "killed" her daughter and was living the single life, but because she thought that her daughter was fine with the nanny, Now it will be the defense who has the problem proving there was a nanny.
     
  13. Pensfan

    Pensfan Former Member

    Messages:
    7,473
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    4000 pages of Texas EquuSearch records might yield God-only-knows-what which Baez can use to "Kronk" a TES volunteer to provide "reasonable doubt".

    Roy Kronk's and his ex-wife's sexual, bondage proclivities involving duct tape might provide "reasonable doubt".
    (Avoid viewing/envisioning previous scenerio. "My eyes!!! They're burning!!!!")
     
  14. thedeviledadvocate

    thedeviledadvocate New Member

    Messages:
    761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The air sample taken from the trunk, is relatively new technology, and to my knowledge, air samples have yet to find a way into a courtroom as evidence. In this case, the prosecution will have to convince Judge P to allow this air sample to come into evidence, this could pose a problem for the prosecution.
     
  15. affinity

    affinity New Member

    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Lack of previous violence and crime in KC's background.
     
  16. nort

    nort New Member

    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think if the prosecution goes with the idea of Casey wanting Caylee gone so she could go out and party and such could be a problem. There are plenty of pictures of Casey out and about before Caylee's death, Caylee was not in her way.
     
  17. notthatsmart

    notthatsmart Former Member

    Messages:
    1,543
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think Richard Cain is going to be a huge problem for the state. The defense has said he got a bad wrap, and they deposed him. Here is another one where he changes his story after they talked to him and do another interview. Then they fire him. IMO
     
  18. beach

    beach Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

    Messages:
    17,931
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I think the biggest hurdle the SA faces will be succinctly refuting all the defense's deliberate attempts to divert attention away from the facts of the case. Clearing the air so that jurors aren't confused by all the smoke and mirrors.
     
  19. RainyGirl

    RainyGirl Inactive

    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What could be a potential problem for the State's case?

    A rogue juror. Although in my experience it is rare, this type of juror could keep their "agenda" hidden and end up on the jury. Rogue jurors lie on questionnaires and during voir dire. Often they are associated in some way with some of your "slimier" defense lawyers. Sometimes they are individuals who have bought into conspiracy theories, have latched onto the defendent's family and who harbor resentment against LE. They subvert justice, totally derail trials and force mistrials. (Quick reminder: A mistrial is not a "Get out of jail free" card!! It just means a great big, expensive "do over" with a different jury). :( Justice for Caylee is further delayed.....the State's money is wasted. Some defense lawyers really are that desperate and hold no respect for the law! To be fair, I have to say that I have friends who are defense lawyers and I truly respect the work they do for their clients.

    Many years ago, there was a case here where a rogue juror (in a criminal trial) was PAID by the defense team's PI to try and render a Not Guilty verdict. :eek: During jury deliberation, this man was obviously prejudiced as he would not even consider the evidence presented by the State. He was completely irrational and essentially "threw" the trial. (BTW, later on he was found to be in contempt and the PI faced charges as well). When confronted with solid evidence presented by the State, he reportedly put his head down on the table and just said "blah, blah, blah". :furious: Upon re-trial, the defendent was later found guilty on all charges, with the new jury deliberating only 3 hours.

    I have faith that Judge Perry and lawyers for both sides will ensure that potential jurors are well-screened during voir dire. They can also strike for cause and use premptory challenges to root out bias and impanel jurors who are truly impartial (we pray). I seriously doubt there will be "rogue jurors"----Judge Perry is reportedly very good at questioning potential jurors and he will ultimately have the last word! Despite my not-so-great feelings about the defense team, I believe they want a fair, impartial jury just as much as the State does. After all, we ALL want justice for Caylee. :)
     
  20. wonders

    wonders My opinion's may not alway's be right but they are

    Messages:
    3,354
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I wonder if the car is going to be a problem for the states side.
    I know LE was there to find a "missing" child but I would really like to know why it took until the next day to take the car to the crime <? garage. Did the dispatcher tell responding LE about the oder in the car?
    IDKW but I would think if they were told they would have sealed off the car as a crime scene right away with an officer protecting it until it could have been towed ASAP.
    Am I wrong in my thinking?
     
  21. snoopydoo

    snoopydoo New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm just envisioning the following type of scenario playing out with each State witness on cross, over and over, throughout the trial:

    Defense: so LE why didn't you search the wooded area that was the nearest opportune place to dispose of the body?
    LE: because it was under water.
    D: so why didn't you go back and search after the water cleared?
    LE: [???]
    D: you had other theories as to where or how the body may have been disposed of?
    LE: we were following up on the cell phone pings.
    D: so you ignored what has become an obvious disposal site?
    LE: it wasn't obvious to us at the time or we would have searched it.
    D: yet it was an obvious disposal site to super-sleuth Kronk?
    LE: yes.
    D: so it was an obvious disposal site for someone just not to LE?
    LE: yes.
    D: in hindsight, is it an obvious disposal site to you now?
    LE: [???]
    D: if it had been an obvious disposal site to you early in the investigation would it have been possible with all the resources available to LE to have searched that site despite the water?
    LE: yes.
    D: based on your experience, if the disposal site was searched and the body found early in the investigation is it your professional opinion that more or less evidence as to cause of death would have been found?
    LE: more.
    D: based on your experience, if the disposal site was searched and the body found early in the investigation is it your professional opinion that more or less evidence as to who was responsible for her death would have been found?
    LE: more.
    D: based on your experience, if the disposal site was searched and the body found early in the investigation is it your professional opinion that if Caylee died from natural causes or accidentally, more or less evidence in support of that cause of death would likely have been found?
    LE: more.
    D: based on your experience, if the disposal site was searched and the body found early in the investigation is it your professional opinion that if someone other than the defendant were responsible for Caylee's death, more or less evidence indicating that person would have been found?
    LE: more.
    D: based on your experience and in your professional opinion, because the site was not searched early on, would evidence that could have exonerated the defendant be more or less likely to be found?
    LE: if there was such evidence, less.
    D: is it your theory that there would have been no such exonerating evidence found?
    LE: yes.
    D: are you as certain of that theory as you were about where the body was likely disposed of?
    LE: [???]
    D: earlier you stated that you were looking for a disposal site based on your cell phone ping theory. Was that theory wrong?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice