Pre-meditated or Spur of the Moment?

Discussion in 'Janet Christiansen Abaroa' started by golfmom, May 25, 2005.

  1. golfmom

    golfmom Former Member

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    I've been noodling around different scenarios.

    I need to make a poll ... does anyone know how to do that here?

    Was the murder pre-meditated or an act of passion?
     
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  3. Jeana (DP)

    Jeana (DP) Former Member

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    I think I would need an arrest before I can decide. I mean if I don't know "who," its hard to answer.
     
  4. golfmom

    golfmom Former Member

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    I guess what I'm asking is do you think this murder took careful planning or was it a murder of opportunity or spur-of-the-moment . . .
     
  5. Jenifred

    Jenifred I can feel it coming in the air tonight......

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    If Raven did it--heat of the moment
    If the perp was an aquaintance (or either Raven's or Janet's) Premeditated

    How's that for sitting on the fence?
     
  6. angarella

    angarella A thousand miles from nowhere.....

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    I think that it was definitely premeditated. I also believe that Raven did not directly do it, but had someone do it. I think the soccer game was an alibi. And I think that when he did go home and call 911, he told them that she had been shot, which I think was supposed to be the original plan.

    JMO!
     
  7. Jenifred

    Jenifred I can feel it coming in the air tonight......

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    Never thought of that! Maybe the gun that was taken from the home wasn't theirs.

    However, I still don't believe that Raven could have found the money for a hit. That $9,000 was too far gone.
     
  8. golfmom

    golfmom Former Member

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    Stabbing is way too personal. When's the last time you heard someone hiring a hitman to stab someone to death? I'm leaning towards a spur-of-the-moment thing, but there is a lot out there to suggest that it might be premeditated.

    Kaiden's pictures and Raven's website are geared to making him look like a clean-cut loving father, Janet's been slowly disappearing over time. Also Raven was into that organizational thingy where you make lists of everything.

    But the crime scene just seems so disorganized to me! and Raven was clearly an organized person. Look through the photos. You can see how much care and upkeep went into his motorcycle and truck.

    eta: Raven wouldn't have hired a hit-man unless he had a designer label attached to him.
     
  9. nanandjim

    nanandjim Former Member

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    I don't know if I am qualified to take a guess because I haven't followed everything in detail. However, from what I have read, I am very suspicious of Raven. I feel that he premeditated his wife's murder.
     
  10. golfmom

    golfmom Former Member

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    Which easily pushes back to motive and IMHO there is a whole list of possible motives.
     
  11. lauriej

    lauriej 'wild rose country...'

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    .......there was a gun taken ?

    ...i agree that $9000 doesn't go too far, especially if he'd been taking the money a little at a time...he probably needed it to keep the loans current on his 'boy toys'.........after all, he didn't fritter it away on meaningless things like---rent !)

    ...i'm curious if there is a life insurance policy ?
     
  12. LvsAMystry

    LvsAMystry Member

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    Well, after my rush to judgement of the poor fiance in the runaway bride matter, I've promised myself to remain firmly on the fence until I'm convincingly pushed to one side or the other. :silenced:

    Unless, of course, there is such a time that my gut instinct is clearly in overdrive. Then I reserve the right to jump off at any time without even looking. ;)
     
  13. golfmom

    golfmom Former Member

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    LOL ... browse around I look forward to seeing you jump!
     
  14. PrayersForMaura

    PrayersForMaura Help Find Maura Murray

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    I wonder where she was stabbed in the chest and if she was stabbed anywhere else but her chest. The chest is where the heart is and if the stab was close to the heart, I see it was very personal and very close.
    I've read about people getting their throats slit and other places and those don't seem as personal as a heart does to me.

    And I still want to know about the trace taken on Janet's hand and if she fired a gun in self defense.

    It seems too weird/coincidental to me that Raven collects Knives and of all ways to die, Janet dies by way of a knife.
    Sort of how it seemed so coincidental that Scott Peterson went "fishing" where Laci and Conner just happened to wash up.
     
  15. golfmom

    golfmom Former Member

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    Ding-ding-ding ...
    Are you ready for the defense, just because he collects knives, has an affair, and says he's single on the internet doesn't make him a killer.
     
  16. PrayersForMaura

    PrayersForMaura Help Find Maura Murray

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    I also rushed to judgement of the runaway bride's fiance, too. But we soon found out after Jennifer went missing that he took a polygraph and passed, and she had been known to do similar things before. If we had known that information firsthand, it would've been easier to not accuse the fiance. However, with Raven, we also don't know if he really had an affair as some people who know him and Janet have mentioned and we don't know if he took a polygraph and passed but we do know that he has not spoken out to the media to help find his wife's killer, nor has the family. Nothing was apparently stolen from the home and LE says this was not a random crime.
    It happened because someone had something against Janet. Being the devout Mormon she is, it could only be a jealous woman, a stalker or Raven.
    If I had to pick, I would pick Raven.
     
  17. PrayersForMaura

    PrayersForMaura Help Find Maura Murray

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    that defense didn't convince a jury of 12 in the Peterson case, thank goodness. If that's their only defense, that's mighty weak, too.
    If Scott had a solid alibi with witnesses, THAT would've been a good defense.
    We don't know Janet's time of death so even if Raven played soccer, we don't know what else he did all day.

    We do know that he is a dishonest person and is a braggart.
    Embezzling funds from an employer makes him dishonest and who is to stay he is being truthful about anything else.
    He certainly wasn't the model Mormon.

    Maybe LE isn't sensationalizing this trial like Laci's was so that if a verdict of guilty came down and it was Raven, then a Geragos couldn't cry that the media sabatoged the case.
     
  18. LadyGraffix@mac.com

    LadyGraffix@mac.com New Member

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    :laugh:
     
  19. Thinkoflaura

    Thinkoflaura Former Member

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    First, no one has been arrested so my thoughts are mainly speculative in nature. I wanted to make it clear for legal purposes.

    I believe the murder was well thought out in that the killer was apparently smart enough to have a clean change of clothing ( possibly minus underwear), to probably go to a creek by the property to change clothing, had money for pay phone calls if needed ( some of which spilled out of the pockets) and had an alibi. I don't know how airtight the alibi is, but that may be the sticking point if they don't have a coroner experienced in establishing TOD.

    The use of either a knife from the household knives or from one's personal collection of display type knives ( apparently knife collecting is a hobby for some men) to stab Janet indicates that the perp. was familiar with and comfortable with his surroundings. An outside killer would have brought a deadly weapon with him, and most likely a gun not a knife, due to the distance factor. However, we need forensic test results to be able to include or exclude the use of a knife from the personal property of Raven and Janet.

    The presence or absence of a baby and a dog doesn't matter at all if the perp was a family member. Reason being that the dog wouldn't bark and the baby is way too young to tell anything or remember anything the night his mother died. Would a stranger have left her baby alive and her dog barking its head off? ( Think of Nicole Simpson's Akita blood-stained and howling all through the neighborhood).

    The big unknown for me involves the issue of computers. I THINK that computers play a larger role in this murder than we even know now. All of us seem to have an intuitive thing going on about the whys and whos, and mine is telling me that most likely Janet had found something that cauesed her to threaten to leave Raven once and for all, or turn him over to LE ( a separate large criminal charge perhaps) but with Raven's baby in her arms this time. It would have to be something worse than embezzlement. After all, she didn't leave him when that was breaking news. I can totally see Raven saying " I stole so that we could have nice things for the baby. I did it for you".. and being contrite in words. She might have forgiven him a white collar, non-violent, non-personalized crime of this sort, but there is really no justification for most alarming things ehe might have found on a PC. ( Indications of an affair, misappropriation of money they shared together and needed desperately to stay in their house, as evidenced from the landlord's comments about their financial arrangements with him 2 days before the murder, or something involving a larger theft or fraud- I don't think any woman would stand for it twice, and most of us would probably leave the first time- the presence of a baby may have made the difference the first time).

    I also believe the first report of the 911 call to be correct. That she WAS emailing with either a present or former co-worker or co-workers and something alarmed them enough to call 911 and put themselves in harm's way by going to the house.
    It has not been reported who made the 911 call. If it had been Raven, I think the news reports would have said so. They are protecting the identity of the caller for some reason. Personal safety would be my guess. If some guy just killed his wife in my town, I would certainly report it, but I definitely would not want him to know that I was the one who called 911 and possibly even found her body.

    No one has commented much about this aspect of the crime, and frankly, I am puzzled, because I think it is a huge clue into the perp's identity. John Douglas and Robert Ressler, as well as Clint Vanzandt ( not sure of his last name) are all criminal profilers or are or have been employed in the business of catching killers and they have ALL said, independently of each other, that the last thing a family member who murders wants to do is be the one who " finds" the body or who the one who calls 911 and has to " talk to the police" about finding the body.

    We have history behind the theory that Janet might be leaving Raven or had found something meant to be well-hidden on his PC: The couple separated in the early spring of 2004 and lived in different towns for a few months before Kaiden was born. Janet would have known she was pregnant by April 2004 at the latest. So, it's entirely possible that the presence of a viable pregnancy with a male heir ( vs another ectopic pregnancy as she is said to have had not long before becoming pregnant with Kaiden) is what brought the couple back together again. From what I was told, they reconciled after her first trimester. I see Raven as being totally filled with pride at the fact that the baby was a boy.. I doubt a girl would have been as thrilling to his narcissistic self.

    People always consider motive for a homicide, although a motive is not necessary to prove guilt. The motivations for this murder all seem to come from inside the household from what we have been able to find out about Janet: She was hard-working. She was pregnant when they separated and she was not the one cheating on him, although I have been told that he was rampantly unfaithful to her. She appears to have been very tolerant and supportive of his disorganized " plans" for his life. I would not be surprised at all to find out that he had taken out large insurance policies on Janet within 30-60 days of her murder. He is one of those people who seems to think he is charming enough to get away with anything.

    I find his April 25 journal entry, the only one which remains in his BLOG, to be very stream of consciousness putting thoughts down on the computer writing. I don't think he was writing for a thousand or more prying eyes, I think he was writing about his sense of failure mixed in with his inflated sense of pride and of being someone entirely special in many ways.
    Raven's sense of self- importance is at great variance with the circumstances. Fired,facing serious legal charges whether he pled guilty or not, possibly having a minimal job at best, having to get free rent to live, putting vehicles he loved and indentified with up for sale... He was NOT a success, except in his mind.
    Personal freedom for Raven meant freedom from his marriage, IMHO. And murder, not divorce with 18 or more years of child support may have been the way to accomplish his goal.

    Disclaimer: My theory is composed of known facts about the crime, and speculation. It is not factual, and is not submitted as such, but as opinion for thought only. Thanks.
     
  20. Jenifred

    Jenifred I can feel it coming in the air tonight......

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    Yes, there was a gun taken, fired casings and unfired casings. Take a look at the search warrant.

    And I'm doubtful there was an insurance policy. Look at all of the things that Raven's "income" would have to go support--school loans, car loans, probably credit cards, rent (oops!). There wouldn't have been any money for insurance policies.
     
  21. Thinkoflaura

    Thinkoflaura Former Member

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    Jennifred, are you aware that you can get $2 million dollars worth of insurance ( with double payout or more for accidental death vs. natural death) on a 25 year old woman for less than $50 per month?

    IF he was only going to need the insurance for the next 30 days after issue, then what's $50 compared to $4 million?
    Not saying he did this, but that the payout for money expended would be better than any casino odds.A surefire thing, UNLESS he gets caught in the web of deception.
     

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