Prior Vaginal Trauma

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KoldKase said:
Oh, gosh, when did you get back from Planet Uranus? Hope you had a nice trip!

Let's see what happened while you were gone....

Mary Lacy took over the case and buddied up with Team Ramsey like she was a number one fan! She was so faithful to their intruder cause, she took the case away from the BPD, with the help of Ramsey attorney Lin Wood's threats to sue the BPD and Boulder. Then she proceeded to arrest an old queen living in Thailand whom Tracey had been grooming for four years, with the help of Intruder Lou. That didn't work out so well once she got over patting herself on the back, because some pesky defense lawyer hired by the court--can you imagine?--pointed out to her she had NADA to kidnap PERV Karr and drag him across the planet except sick fantasies (Karr's and Lacy's) that weren't even consistent with the evidence. Back to square one creating an intruder.

Did I mention Lin Wood turned over to Lacy a package of size 12 Bloomies five years after the murder, which the Ramseys suddenly claimed they had all along?! Someone on Team Ramsey found them in a packing box when they were looking for their clothes to turn over to LE back in 1997--they said, heh. They decided to keep the Bloomies, until someone trustworthy who would actually try to find an intruder showed up. Voila! Lacy got the case in her busy, busy hands. Not that chain of custody would permit the Bloomies to be much use in a trial, but hey, five years later isn't so long to turn over crucial case evidence in your daughter's murder, is it? Nah, big deal. It's not like there's a rush or anything.

So what else, what else.... Oh! Lin Wood sued anyone and everyone on behalf of the Ramseys who had money and said the Ramseys looked suspicious, guilty, or who had that opinion in a book, in public, or even in the investigation--hence the BPD was threatened. That shut up the pesky questions about the Ramsey's behavior and the mountain of evidence leading to none other than them. And that's why all you hear now in the press is how the Ramseys are saints, the best parents who ever lived, victims of some awful intruder who came, molested, came back, molested and murdered, and wrote a 2.5 page ransom note in Patsy's hand and linguistic style, left a few strands of DNA behind, and then poof! Gone forever.

But lucky Ramseys, with Smit and Tracey and Hunter and Lacy spinning out tales of an intruder as fast as their propaganda could air, Lacy also managed to get a sophisticated lab to test for DNA strands in only specified places on the longjohns, throwing out other DNA found during the testing, and then proclaim to the public how they'd matched the panty and fingernail DNA to it in an open murder investigation--never mind that the fingernail DNA was only 1 to 3 markers, hey, it plays! Never mind that Bode Technology is not in the BIDNESS of declaring the owner of a DNA profile is a killer, because those little details were NOT important! THE MIRACLE HAD BEEN FABRICATED! THE INTRUDER KILLER HAD BEEN FOUND!

So with all the TV airplay and thousands of media reports, much as when PERV Karr was paraded around like a trained monkey, the Ramseys were announced by Lacy to be innocent and given an "official" letter saying as much! (The "tears" in Lacy's eyes as she declared John Ramsey innocent were actually mentioned in the news articles!) It was as if Lacy were the judge, jury, and Grand Pooh-Bah of the case herself! Hurrah! Then John was sainted by the Pope! :woohoo:

Okay I made up the Pope stuff, but otherwise, I didn't even exaggerate a little.

So yeah, the media, given the realistic POV their producers and lawyers presented to them, drank the Kool-Aid: either accept that two DAs in Boulder have worked as defense attorneys for the Ramseys de facto and finally flat out "exonerated" them like that was the DA's job--no clue about who that pesky intruder might be, but who cares, it's not important 10 years later--or face Lin Wood in a deposition before you hit the unemployment line.

"They're innocent! The intruder has been identified! Just no name, face, hair, semen, blood, age, ethnicity, address, link to the Ramseys, arrest, indictment, or heck, even nationality! He could be ANYONE! JUST NOT THE RAMSEYS!! YEAH!!

So...now you know. Don't thank me for catching you up, just send me some photos of the solar system up close and personal. Who knows? Maybe you got a candid shot of the intruder while you were out there! :borgsmile:
Click to expand...

I've read your entire post plus some of your other posts and have reached one conclusion:

Someone is obsessed with Bloomies.
 
I've lost count on how many INNOCENT people that we've helped become officially Exonerated, people that the Ramseys tried to pin their responsibility on. But you already knew that...how's Professor LacyTracey doing lately?! After his numerous attempts to frame and then resorting to Karr Shame, you KNOW who he gives credit to for ending those pathetic attempts! :woohoo:
The Silence from Him since then has been Golden :)

QQQQQQQQQQQQQQ8888888888888888888 - The Non-Blind enjoys helping people that did not kill JonBenet!
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
Is it working?
Click to expand...

I'd say a mother lying to LE in an interview about how the huge, unwearable underwear found on her child's molested and murdered body got there is a pretty significant clue.

So yeah, it's working for me. But then, I accepted long ago that Patsy Ramsey wasn't going to be dug up and arrested, so I'm satisfied with just knowing the truth.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
The information you cited and claimed to be evidence is in fact a mix of evidence and speculation. An interpretation of a physical state that is subject to being wrong. There is not one and only one cause for the physical state that JBR was in, and the description of the physical state JBR was in is too subjective for the police to say in matter-of-fact terms that JBR was previously chronically sexually abused.

Nice rant though.
Click to expand...

Holdontoyourhat,

Its all fact, because Coroner Meyer said so. Then there are all the other experts who also cited chronic sexual abuse. They have seen the evidence you have not. All you have is your newspaper reports.

There is no get out clause here for the IDI promoters. Words like subjective, speculation and interpretation, patently used to muddy the waters cannot refute that prior to the night JonBenet was killed someone was molesting her on a regular basis.

The JonBenet case is a sexually motivated homicide!


.
 
The mix of evidence and speculation contains speculation by some pretty respected sources. One was the coroner who did the autopsy. Other "speculation" was made by well-known and respected forensic specialists and medical examiners who studied the autopsy. These people KNOW what they are talking about. The "speculation" on her sexual abuse doesn't come only from "armchair" sources.
One thing is clear- the presence of blood in the vagina, on the thighs and pubic area, the vascular congestion and hyperemia in the vagina and the bruising in the vagina and erosion (abrasion if you like) of the hymen have NO innocent cause. Some of those injuries happened THAT night before she was killed. While some may feel some of the injuries resulted from postmortem staging, most could not have been done after she died. Bruising and bleeding do not occur after death.
 
Holdontoyourhat said:
The information you cited and claimed to be evidence is in fact a mix of evidence and speculation. An interpretation of a physical state that is subject to being wrong. There is not one and only one cause for the physical state that JBR was in, and the description of the physical state JBR was in is too subjective for the police to say in matter-of-fact terms that JBR was previously chronically sexually abused.

Nice rant though.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should read the autopsy and then do some research on the medical/forensic terminology used in it. There's nothing subjective about tissue collected and analyzed in a lab as evidence in a murder case.

If you choose to confuse yourself with the possibility of the improbable, then here you go: maybe aliens did it. Prove they didn't.
 
DeeDee249 said:
The mix of evidence and speculation contains speculation by some pretty respected sources. One was the coroner who did the autopsy. Other "speculation" was made by well-known and respected forensic specialists and medical examiners who studied the autopsy. These people KNOW what they are talking about. The "speculation" on her sexual abuse doesn't come only from "armchair" sources.
One thing is clear- the presence of blood in the vagina, on the thighs and pubic area, the vascular congestion and hyperemia in the vagina and the bruising in the vagina and erosion (abrasion if you like) of the hymen have NO innocent cause. Some of those injuries happened THAT night before she was killed. While some may feel some of the injuries resulted from postmortem staging, most could not have been done after she died. Bruising and bleeding do not occur after death.
Click to expand...

The paintbrush was broken into three pieces, one then tied onto the garrote cord at one end. The noose portion of the cord was tied in back of the neck (hair found in the knot at the neck was still rooted to the scalp on back of the head). The long end of the cord was then pulled from behind.

All this is simple logic based upon the evidence. I think it's highly probable that the paintbrush was not broken when it was inserted into the child. That would have been done from the front, as the blood on the thigh implies, and as it is much more likely, for obvious reasons of undressing, redressing, and things I don't want to talk about.

Therefore it appears to me the vaginal injuries inflicted that night with the paintbrush were done before it was broken and tied onto the garrote, therefore done before death. The blood and bruising confirm this. JMO
 
UKGuy said:
Holdontoyourhat,

Its all fact, because Coroner Meyer said so. Then there are all the other experts who also cited chronic sexual abuse. They have seen the evidence you have not. All you have is your newspaper reports.

There is no get out clause here for the IDI promoters. Words like subjective, speculation and interpretation, patently used to muddy the waters cannot refute that prior to the night JonBenet was killed someone was molesting her on a regular basis.

The JonBenet case is a sexually motivated homicide!


.
Click to expand...

Exactly! ITA

Let's don't forget the fact that Dr Cyril Wecht wrote a book about this case and the R's and LW never sued him. I find that very telling. Were they afraid to go up against a medical professional with his experience? I know the R's didn't ever want to be inside a court room, thats why they always settled out of court. Seems like they picked and chose who they could bully with a lawsuit and who to leave alone. If the R's and LW thought for one minute that what Wecht said about JBR and her prior sexual abuse was not true, they would have sued him in a heartbeat. Especially, since Wecht also stated that in his opinion that the mother is the one that murdered JBR.
 
Zak said:
Exactly! ITA

Let's don't forget the fact that Dr Cyril Wecht wrote a book about this case and the R's and LW never sued him. I find that very telling. Were they afraid to go up against a medical professional with his experience? I know the R's didn't ever want to be inside a court room, thats why they always settled out of court. Seems like they picked and chose who they could bully with a lawsuit and who to leave alone. If the R's and LW thought for one minute that what Wecht said about JBR and her prior sexual abuse was not true, they would have sued him in a heartbeat. Especially, since Wecht also stated that in his opinion that the mother is the one that murdered JBR.
Click to expand...

Zak,

Of course, not to mention all the other experts who publicly opined prior sexual abuse, they are still working away fine.

Although the case has always focussed upon JonBenet's death and its cause, less daylight has been shone on her prior sexual abuse. Both sides played this down in case a trial ever occurred.

Has anyone ever done the stats? How many daughters of millionares are there attending pageants?

Who would encourage their daughter or grand-daughter to dress up provocatively, wear makeup, and sing and dance alluringly in public, what purpose does it serve?

.
 
UKGuy said:
Zak,

Of course, not to mention all the other experts who publicly opined prior sexual abuse, they are still working away fine.

Although the case has always focussed upon JonBenet's death and its cause, less daylight has been shone on her prior sexual abuse. Both sides played this down in case a trial ever occurred.

Has anyone ever done the stats? How many daughters of millionares are there attending pageants?

Who would encourage their daughter or grand-daughter to dress up provocatively, wear makeup, and sing and dance alluringly in public, what purpose does it serve?

.
Click to expand...

Most of the participants in these kiddie-glitz pageants come from lower socioeconomic families, not millionaires, despite the expensive costumes and high costs of travel, lessons, coaching, etc JB was likely the exception. These pageants, for girls of ALL ages, are much more common in the South, as Patsy was from the South. Pageants are big business there. But JR' wealth was only a factor in that it allowed Patsy unrestricted spending as far as the pageants. JB was a beautiful little girl, and when she was in her pageant costumes, with her hair and make-up done, the effect was quite stunning/shocking (depending on how you feel about little girls made up to look like grown women). She would have won those crowns regardless of her father's wealth.
As far as JR's involvement- I feel Patsy was probably an annoying woman to be married to, and being consumed with JB and the pageants kept her busy and out of his hair. To him, he simply let her do what she wanted and, though he probably attended some of the competitions, he regarded it as Patsy's (and Nedra's) "thing" and left her to it, IMO.
 
DeeDee249 said:
Most of the participants in these kiddie-glitz pageants come from lower socioeconomic families, not millionaires, despite the expensive costumes and high costs of travel, lessons, coaching, etc JB was likely the exception. These pageants, for girls of ALL ages, are much more common in the South, as Patsy was from the South. Pageants are big business there. But JR' wealth was only a factor in that it allowed Patsy unrestricted spending as far as the pageants. JB was a beautiful little girl, and when she was in her pageant costumes, with her hair and make-up done, the effect was quite stunning/shocking (depending on how you feel about little girls made up to look like grown women). She would have won those crowns regardless of her father's wealth.
As far as JR's involvement- I feel Patsy was probably an annoying woman to be married to, and being consumed with JB and the pageants kept her busy and out of his hair. To him, he simply let her do what she wanted and, though he probably attended some of the competitions, he regarded it as Patsy's (and Nedra's) "thing" and left her to it, IMO.
Click to expand...

DeeDee249,

You are probably correct, but there is another interpretation that can be placed upon the pageants which also involves the Paughs.

.
 
KoldKase said:
Oh, gosh, when did you get back from Planet Uranus? Hope you had a nice trip! :beamup::earth:

Let's see what happened while you were gone....

Mary Lacy took over the case and buddied up with Team Ramsey like she was a number one fan! She was so faithful to their intruder cause, she took the case away from the BPD, with the help of Ramsey attorney Lin Wood's threats to sue the BPD and Boulder. Then she proceeded to arrest an old queen living in Thailand whom Tracey had been grooming for four years, with the help of Intruder Lou. That didn't work out so well once she got over patting herself on the back, because some pesky defense lawyer hired by the court--can you imagine?--pointed out to her she had NADA to kidnap PERV Karr and drag him across the planet except sick fantasies (Karr's and Lacy's) that weren't even consistent with the evidence. Back to square one creating an intruder.

Did I mention Lin Wood turned over to Lacy a package of size 12 Bloomies five years after the murder, which the Ramseys suddenly claimed they had all along?! Someone on Team Ramsey found them in a packing box when they were looking for their clothes to turn over to LE back in 1997--they said, heh. They decided to keep the Bloomies, until someone trustworthy who would actually try to find an intruder showed up. Voila! Lacy got the case in her busy, busy hands. Not that chain of custody would permit the Bloomies to be much use in a trial, but hey, five years later isn't so long to turn over crucial case evidence in your daughter's murder, is it? Nah, big deal. It's not like there's a rush or anything.

So what else, what else.... Oh! Lin Wood sued anyone and everyone on behalf of the Ramseys who had money and said the Ramseys looked suspicious, guilty, or who had that opinion in a book, in public, or even in the investigation--hence the BPD was threatened. That shut up the pesky questions about the Ramsey's behavior and the mountain of evidence leading to none other than them. And that's why all you hear now in the press is how the Ramseys are saints, the best parents who ever lived, victims of some awful intruder who came, molested, came back, molested and murdered, and wrote a 2.5 page ransom note in Patsy's hand and linguistic style, left a few strands of DNA behind, and then poof! Gone forever.

But lucky Ramseys, with Smit and Tracey and Hunter and Lacy spinning out tales of an intruder as fast as their propaganda could air, Lacy also managed to get a sophisticated lab to test for DNA strands in only specified places on the longjohns, throwing out other DNA found during the testing, and then proclaim to the public how they'd matched the panty and fingernail DNA to it in an open murder investigation! Never mind that the fingernail DNA was only 1 to 3 markers; hey, it plays! Never mind that Bode Technology is not in the "BUSSINESS" of declaring the owner of a DNA profile is a killer, because those little details were NOT important! THE MIRACLE HAD BEEN FABRICATED! THE INTRUDER KILLER HAD BEEN FOUND!

So with all the TV airplay and thousands of media reports, much as when PERV Karr was paraded around like a trained child molester, the Ramseys were announced by Lacy to be innocent and given an "official" letter saying as much! (The "tears" in Lacy's eyes as she declared John Ramsey innocent were actually mentioned in the news articles!) It was as if Lacy were the judge, jury, and Grand Pooh-Bah of the case herself! Hurrah! Then John and Patsy were sainted by the Pope! :woohoo:

Okay I made up the Pope stuff, but otherwise, I didn't even exaggerate a little.

So yeah, the media, given the realistic POV their producers and lawyers presented to them, drank the Kool-Aid: either accept that two DAs in Boulder have worked as defense attorneys for the Ramseys de facto and finally flat out "exonerated" them like that was the DA's job--no clue about who that pesky intruder might be, but who cares, it's not important 10 years later--or face Lin Wood in a deposition before you hit the unemployment line.

"They're innocent! The intruder has been identified! Just no name, face, hair, semen, blood, age, ethnicity, address, link to the Ramseys, arrest, indictment, or heck, even nationality! He could be ANYONE! JUST NOT THE RAMSEYS!! YEAH!!

So...now you know. Don't thank me for catching you up, just send me some photos of the solar system up close and personal. Who knows? Maybe you got a candid shot of the intruder while you were out there! :borgsmile::alien::elfroll::chicken:
Click to expand...

Outrageous and outstanding, KK!
 
KoldKase said:
I'd say a mother lying to LE in an interview about how the huge, unwearable underwear found on her child's molested and murdered body got there is a pretty significant clue.

So yeah, it's working for me. But then, I accepted long ago that Patsy Ramsey wasn't going to be dug up and arrested, so I'm satisfied with just knowing the truth.
Click to expand...

Ooh, that's cold, KK. But it sums me up as well.
 
UKGuy said:
Holdontoyourhat,

Its all fact, because Coroner Meyer said so. Then there are all the other experts who also cited chronic sexual abuse. They have seen the evidence you have not. All you have is your newspaper reports.

There is no get out clause here for the IDI promoters. Words like subjective, speculation and interpretation, patently used to muddy the waters cannot refute that prior to the night JonBenet was killed someone was molesting her on a regular basis.
Click to expand...

They're damn sure trying, though!

The JonBenet case is a sexually motivated homicide!
Click to expand...

The more I hear...
 
Zak said:
Exactly! ITA

Let's don't forget the fact that Dr Cyril Wecht wrote a book about this case and the R's and LW never sued him. I find that very telling. Were they afraid to go up against a medical professional with his experience? I know the R's didn't ever want to be inside a court room, thats why they always settled out of court. Seems like they picked and chose who they could bully with a lawsuit and who to leave alone. If the R's and LW thought for one minute that what Wecht said about JBR and her prior sexual abuse was not true, they would have sued him in a heartbeat. Especially, since Wecht also stated that in his opinion that the mother is the one that murdered JBR.
Click to expand...

It's not just Wecht they're afraid of. They are awfully selective. I can't WAIT until I get published. Let them TRY to come after me.
 
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