Problems with the DA

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by SuperDave, Dec 31, 2010.

  1. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Hi, all.

    A few months ago, the subject of ML came up. Our friend DeeDee summed it up rather brilliantly:

    To which I added:

    As usual, whenever one of us hits too close to home for IDI, they divert and obfuscate, even if they have to attack to do it. I was called a chauvinist dinosaur for my trouble, which really irked me, because I didn't say anything that hadn't already been said by people who knew her.

    So let's take it up a notch and get into specifics here. My book contains a quote from a candidate who ran against her in the 2000 election, Ben Thompson. Also a Democrat, but he seems to have his head on straight:

    "It's political, the reason that it hasn't been prosecuted. And we have a district attorney's office that is more political than it is a prosecutor's office. I'm sitting here listening to those two talk, or those three talk, and it's strange to me that Alex sounds more like a defense attorney than a prosecutor, and that's part of the problem. Let me say there is a cancer in our DA's office, and whenever anybody points it out, what happens is they attack whoever points it out instead of addressing the issue and trying to solve the problem."

    I think it's helpful to remember that Mary Lacy had her mind MADE UP on day one, not because of evidence, just because the Rs didn't "seem" like the "type" of people to do this.

    Don't take my word for it!

    Frank Coffman is a Boulder-based columnist. He actually worked on Lacy's election campaign until he found out what a dog-lunch she is. He had this to say:

    "Her basis for believing the Ramseys are innocent, as she explained it to me, is that the Ramseys don't have a history of being abusive parents that would be apt to kill their child," said Frank Coffman, who knew Keenan from volunteering on her 2000 campaign for district attorney. Coffman said, "At least from what she told me about it, she was basing her opinion on the Ramseys' innocence on the fact that they don't fit the profile of murdering parents."

    Here's the kicker:

    Because the Ramseys distrusted Boulder police - who they believed were fixated on them as suspects - John Ramsey was interrogated by veteran El Paso County homicide investigator Lou Smit and grand jury specialist Michael Kane, while Patsy was grilled by Denver district attorney's investigator Tom Haney and Boulder prosecutor Trip DeMuth. All interviews were videotaped and every few hours, completed tapes were transported from the Broomfield Police Department - where the interviews were conducted to avoid media attention - to Boulder, where they were studied by Boulder detectives and prosecutors, including then-Deputy District Attorney Keenan.

    One source involved in those sessions recalls being told by colleagues that Keenan chided Haney for being too tough on Patsy Ramsey:

    "Mary really had her nose in it, and thought that the Ramseys were being really pushed around," said another key law enforcement source.

    Now let's all think about that one REAL HARD! I devote significant space to ML in my book. This is a passage that describes my feelings when I found out what I just posted (Some of the more extreme profanity has been sanitized):

    Tom Haney is one of the finest homicide detectives in the entire Rocky Mountain area, if not the country. His record speaks for itself. And here's this assistant DA, who at that time I don't think had ever tried a murder case in her entire career, and to my knowledge still hasn't, telling him he was too tough for using absolutely STANDARD interrogation techniques that the greenest rookie on the beat would know! Haney's general feeling was, "who the hell does she think SHE is?"

    The finishing touch:

    One of the Ramsey-case veterans who spoke about Keenan only on the condition of anonymity said that her background appeared to affect her attitudes toward the Ramsey case.
    "Right after the (June 1998) interviews, she went in and sat down and spent two hours talking to the Ramseys about their suspicions about Santa Claus," the source said. "It was clear she thought this woman (Patsy Ramsey) was a victim. She is a very pro-woman prosecutor. Her whole life revolves around believing what women say. I think she is so empathetic she couldn't stand to watch someone, in her mind, being victimized."


    The bold is mine. Mary Lacy has allowed her radical feminist beliefs to cloud her judgment, what there is of it. Don't take my word for that. In Thomas's book, he writes,

    "Deputy DA Mary Keenan said the body language of John and Patsy wasn't suggestive of deception, and that men were not in a position to judge Patsy Ramsey's demeanor."

    WTF???!!!

    These are just snippets. Go here for a more comprehensive picture:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5392260&postcount=64"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Jane Valez Mitchell & other Media People Who Know Only Ramsey Spin Let's Educate Them[/ame]


    Here's a longer section of the manuscript:

    She was biased in the favor of the Ramseys because of their status. She has so much as said so. Lacy is known as a radical feminist who lets her belief in women's innocence cloud her reason. She demonstrated that in the University of Colorado case, where, back in 2001, a group of football players were accused of rape. Lacy was gung-ho to prosecute, even though it was clear that there was no case. It was Duke before Duke, where the three lacrosse players were hung out to dry by an overzealous, politically motivated prosecutor. Another incident came in 2006 when a ten-month-old boy named Jason Midyette was beaten to death and she wouldn't take any action because the grandfather owns half of Boulder's Pearl Street Mall. Journalist Frank Coffman describes Lacy as a feminist who is very pro-woman, to the point where it clouds her judgment, as I just showed you. She's also a mother and a career woman. Nothing wrong with that. I'm not one of these "a woman's place is in the home" type guys. I'm secure enough in my manhood to say that if a woman wants it all, she can have it. I just hope she can handle it and she doesn't lose perspective. Since Mrs. Lacy can't keep her own son out of trouble (he was busted for DUI), I'd say she has. I think that Mary Lacy saw Patsy, a wealthy, successful mother and identified with her. She saw this successful, lovely lady being grilled by a bunch of macho male cops and that was it.

    Jeff Shapiro seems to agree with me:

    Journalist Jeff Shapiro writes, "It's no secret that in 1997, when Lacy was a sex-assault prosecutor under then-DA Alex Hunter, she was furious when he did not appoint her to work on the case. Because Hunter and the police shied away from the intruder theory, many law enforcement officials often wonder if Lacy's attempts to prove them wrong are driven more by her personal feelings than by the actual pursuit of justice."

    And that's not even TOUCHING on any of the many OTHER problems. Believe me, the main point of this thread is enough to keep us busy for quite a while!

    So to any IDIs who have read this far, this is your chance. No more diversions. No more strawman arguments. No more projection. No more cracks about RDI monomania. In other words, no BS. Just a straight-forward, no-nonsense decision: Defend ML if you can. Or admit that you've backed a losing horse. It's completely your choice.
     
  2. Loading...


  3. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I'm WAITING!

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wi8Fv0AJA4[/ame]
     
  4. joeskidbeck

    joeskidbeck Rest in Peace

    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'd comment Dave but since I agree with everything you said, I don't think I'd be bringing anything to the table. Excellent thread though, waiting to hear some good feedback!
     
  5. SunnieRN

    SunnieRN Active Member

    Messages:
    3,577
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Hi Dave, I had a very interesting night at work last night. One of my patients was a defense attorney. He had some views on things that I found very interesting.

    Suffice to say, that he felt the Ramseys are GUILTY! I wont even begin to tell you what he said about the DA office or how the case was handled.

    Interesting coming from a defense lawyer!

    As for your post, I agree. The problems were around long before Lacy, however, she was the 'frosting on the cake'. Can you believe all the amazing luck that the Ramseys' had on their side? To me it is astounding!
     
  6. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

    Messages:
    1,980
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm not interested in arguing the pros or cons of the DA or of Mary Keenan/Lacy. You obviously have a grudge against them and I wonder sometimes if you weren't on BPD at some stage, as you seem to defend the cops and blame the DA for the botched investigation. I'd say probably both were responsible, but from my understanding of your system, it's the cops who would do the initial investigation, so I feel this is where the errors began and continued. Whether the DA acted properly or not I don't know and don't really care.

    I'm more interested in looking at evidence (or what we have access to) and trying to piece together some kind of theory on who killed JBR.

    Sorry if this disappoints.
     
  7. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

    Messages:
    8,022
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You're correct about the police botch-ups. BUT- to say you "don't care" about the DA seems to be incongruous. Yes, the cops do the investigating, but the DA drives the investigation. The DA in this case, seemed to be compromised by forces outside his office. We should ALL care about the behavior of both the cops and the DA. When a DA acts improperly, especially knowingly, justice suffers. The police cannot always overcome such barricades as was thrown at them in this case. Yes, there were investigative mistakes made at the outset. But to say that the DA's actions are inconsequential to that simply do not make sense. Of COURSE it matters what the DA did. BOTH helped put this case into the situation it became.
     
  8. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

    Messages:
    1,980
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It doesn't matter to me because it's happened and is in the past. This is just a blame game, it doesn't help to find clues to solve this, so that's why I'm not interested in debating who was at fault.
     
  9. otg

    otg Reports of my death are greatly exagerated... but

    Messages:
    2,389
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    38
    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case[/ame]
     
  10. tezi

    tezi Member of Websleuths since 2000.

    Messages:
    5,359
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    And meanwhile the most innocent victim JonBenet is still dead in her grave waiting for justice, because NO ONE will accept blame for where this case went south!

    I'm most interested in assigning blame where blame is due in this case. Because until everyone accepts their part of the blame, these mistakes will happen again. And just maybe the truth will come to light.
     
  11. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    That about says it all!

    Astounding isn't the word for it.
     
  12. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I certainly don't blame you! It's pretty hard to defend the indefensible.

    You're damn right!

    That would be quite a trick, since I was only 15 years old when JB was killed and all the way across the country to boot!

    I calls 'em like I sees 'em! I can't not see what's right in front of me, all right?

    You're partly right. Both are to blame in their own way. But it's one thing to blame the cops for mistakes made in good faith. It's another thing altogether to recognize what the DA's office was doing. A bunch of stinking bureaucrats who came too late and stayed too long who were more interested in their public reputations and sticking a thumb in the eye of the police than they were in justice.

    It helps to remember, Murri, that the members of the DA's office were politically left who came of age in the 1960s and imbibed deeply of the anti-police rhetoric that was so popular at that time.

    I figured. That's why I decided to educate people who might not know.

    Well, that's a damn shame, Murri. Anyone who actually gives a rat's a** about justice should care a LOT! Because understanding the DA's conduct in this case is paramount to understanding why this case was never solved!

    I wish the DA had been interested in that!

    "Disappointing" is such an inadequate word...
     
  13. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    It's clear that Mary Lacy's supporters aren't going to listen to what ACTUAL experienced prosecutors like Michael Kane, Dan Caplis and Craig Silverman have to say about her. If only there was someone HERE who could tell us the raw dirt!
     
  14. Agatha_C

    Agatha_C New Member

    Messages:
    2,309
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I was trying to post this here and it bumped me to another thread... So, Im trying it again...

    ML,

    Is the poster child for all thats wrong with politics, no matter what party you back. Any person that can defend her clearly has not done their research on Miz L.

    Heres a homework list for you.... http://www.crimerant.com/?p=362

    Baby Jason Midyette, was two months old. He lived in Boulder Co. baby Jason died of head trauma, his autopsy should 27 fractures in various stages of healing. His mothers rich boyfriend had a lawyer before Jason even died. No arrests made, no charges filed. At the time ML was the DA.... It should also be noted, this took place while the JMK circus was taking place....

    http://www.crimerant.com/?p=370

    Lets take a look at Tanner Dowler, a nine week old. Tanner had been beaten to death. His parents were poor. Both were arrested immediately. Just fifteen days after the incident, both were charged and sentenced....

    Just what does money buy you in Boulder? A get out of jail card? Maybe the title of DA? Lets not forget nothing is more corrupted than politicians and/or politics... IMHO!
    _______
     
  15. Peepers

    Peepers Member

    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    All of the blame can go on forever...there was a grand jury and they did not indict the R's. Blame them.
     
  16. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

    Messages:
    8,022
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Oh, I do. But there were reasons why that point right back at the DA, so they are also to blame.
     
  17. Agatha_C

    Agatha_C New Member

    Messages:
    2,309
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    http://www.acandyrose.com/s-ramseypolygraph.htm

    2006-08-29: Boulder District Attorney, Mary Lacy Press Conference
    "No-one is really cleared of a homicide until there’s a conviction"


    Man: "Speaking of the ongoing nature of your investigation, then would it be fair to say that is any involvement by John or Patsy Ramsey completely ruled out by your office? Are you committed to an intruder theory of the crime?"

    Mary Lacy: "What we are committed to is solving the crime if we possibly can.. You know, there’s these terms out there “Umbrella of suspicion”, we don’t use that. You know, no-one is really cleared of a homicide until there’s a conviction, in court beyond a reasonable doubt. And I don’t think you will get any prosecutor… unless they were present with the person at the time of the crime… to clear someone. Where, like in this case the facts are so strange … you know… obviously the family was in the house at the time… the DNA does not match … now … so what we can say is … I think an expert said it’s… you have to look at stranger, male DNA in the underwear of the dead victim."

    Ummm, okay, so she didnt clear the Rs. So what was the conference about, where she said they were no longer under the umbrella suspicion? And now the touch DNA isnt even mentioned and the spot in her panties does not belong to a killer but needs to be looked at.... No wonder IDI confuses me, their DA was confused and its contagious....

    We have a saying here in Louisiana "ML was crawfishing" in other words going backwards.... Still want to defend her?
     
  18. Ames

    Ames New Member

    Messages:
    5,838
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well, even if she did "clear" them....they are not "cleared" anymore...thanks to this new investigation!!!
     
  19. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 New Member

    Messages:
    8,022
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    And let's hope the "new" investigation isn't still the "old" investigation with different people. Because I don't see anything "new" happening. Let's start with a subpoena for BR to talk in person and sans lawyer in front of a new GJ.
     
  20. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Except we can't blame them, Peepers. It goes right back to the DA again. I have it from multiple sources that the GJ was going to indict and the DA dismissed them before they could.
     
  21. PrintGal

    PrintGal New Member

    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't blame the grand jury, I blame the DA and his office for the completely tepid and incomplete presentation of the evidence and facts of the case.

    And it sure doesn't help when idiots like ML go public and proclaim that the Rs are innocent and have been cleared when she did not and never had the authority to clear anybody. But the general public heard that and saw the headlines and probably 90% of the sheeple in this country take that as gospel.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice