Prosecuting the Crime of Bigamy

Discussion in 'FLDS Raids and Related Items' started by Seven, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. Seven

    Seven 1984 All Over Again:The Collective Rules

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    This thread is for past and present cases of Prosecution
    of the Crime of Bigamy in the United States.

    Until a year ago, I was completely ignorant of the rampant flaunting of
    anti-bigamy laws and, worse, the complicity of "law enforcement" in places
    like Hildale, Utah/Colorady City, Arizona--the original home of the FLDS.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I'll start with the case of FLDS member Rodney Holm, to whom FLDS Prophet Rulon Jeffs "gave" 16-year-old Ruth Stubbs as his third "celestial wife."


    May 18, 2006

    Bigamy Conviction Stands for Former Utah Policeman, Rodney Holm


    The Utah Supreme Court upheld the 2003 bigamy conviction of a former Hildale police officer, ruling that a law banning polygamy is not unconstitutional.

    Holm was convicted of felony bigamy and two counts of unlawful sexual conduct with a minor. He had argued that the state's bigamy statute violated his right to practice his religion.

    The court said that religious protections of the U.S. and Utah constitutions "do not shield [Rodney] Holm's polygamous practices from state prosecution."

    Holm is a member of the Fundamentalist LDS Church (not the Morman Church, which banned polygamy in 1890).

    http://fightbigamy.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/05/bigamy_convicti.html



     
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  3. Seven

    Seven 1984 All Over Again:The Collective Rules

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    Just in case Texas law enforcement decides to go this way with the FLDS, here's the Texan law against bigamy:

    ***"TEXAS

    TITLE 6. OFFENSES AGAINST THE FAMILY
    CHAPTER 25. OFFENSES AGAINST THE FAMILY

    ยง 25.01. BIGAMY.
    (a) An individual commits an offense if:

    (1) he is legally married and he:
    (A) purports to marry or does marry a person other than his spouse in this state, or any other state or foreign country, under circumstances that would, but for the actor's prior marriage, constitute a marriage; or
    (B) lives with a person other than his spouse in this state under the appearance of being married; or

    (2) he knows that a married person other than his spouse is married and he:
    (A) purports to marry or does marry that person in this state, or any other state or foreign country, under circumstances that would, but for the person's prior marriage, constitute a marriage; or
    (B) lives with that person in this state under the appearance of being married.

    (b) For purposes of this section, "under the appearance of being married" means holding out that the parties are married with cohabitation and an intent to be married by either party.

    (c) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(1) that the actor reasonably believed that his marriage was void or had been dissolved by death, divorce, or annulment.

    (d) For the purposes of this section, the lawful wife or husband of the actor may testify both for or against the actor concerning proof of the original marriage.

    (e) An offense under this section is a
    Third Degree Felony."


    http://fightbigamy.typepad.com/my_weblog/bigamy_laws_states_rw/index.html
     
  4. Floh

    Floh Former Member

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    I think bigamy is repressive. IMO.

    it may be said how can it be repressive if all adults involved are agreeable to any such arrangement. i say "think of the children" and what values they may bring to society.
     
  5. southcitymom

    southcitymom New Member

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    I can see bigamy, with or without children, working for some people and I do not have an inherent problem with it as an institution. I do think the bigamy in the FLDS was repressive to women, but I also believe that some women are okay with being repressed and surpressed. (witness slave/master relationships (not illegal) in the BDSM world - a lifestyle which fully explores these issues).

    I do think bigamy could make family law in our country impossibly confusing (ie - were divorce and/or custody issues thrown into the mix with more than two partners).

    As far as the values it brings to the society via the children - our definition of family has had to change over the years and it is continuing to evolve and change. Families do not look the same as they did even 40 years ago. I appreciate this diversity and its underlying statement that family is more about love than blood.

    I do believe that bigamists feel supported by the Bible (and FLDS even more so by the direct prophesy of plural marriage). Whether that support is a poor interpretation or not, it certainly can be interpreted. If you believe that God's will is to be fruitful and multiply and populate the land with His people, bigamy makes spiritual sense because it allows the faithful to populate more quickly and raise up their progeny in the way of their faith.

    The Catholic Church has, I believe, a not dissimilar goal, but uses the dictate of most birth control as sin rather than bigamy with offspring to achieve it (ie - populate the planet with more Catholics).
     
  6. Jolynna

    Jolynna New Member

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    I admit to having watched "The Man with Three Wives" on Lifetime more than once just to see the guy get busted and humiliated.

    But, I don't believe the government has a place in the bedrooms of consenting adults.

    Southcitymom is right. Families these days don't look like the families of our grandmother's generation.

    I don't want my husband with another woman under any circumstances. But, in a plural marriage, at least I'd know. (so I could leave)
     
  7. Floh

    Floh Former Member

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    Hee! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
     
  8. mysteriew

    mysteriew A diamond in process

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    I am less adamant on bigamy. Yes it is against the law and thus should probably be prosecuted. But with the prevelance of serial marriages, open relationships and adultery in our society, it is kind of hypocritical to prosecute. As long as the relationships were entered into as adults, and willingly by the participants, and there is no incestous relationships involved that is. I do think in this situation incest will be a bigger problem than most anticipate.
     
  9. KatK

    KatK Former Member

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    But what is willing? In an s/M relationship, the sub grew up with their own mind, (male or female) and they are free to be themselves. *THEY* are the ones that actually hold the power, and any Dom worth their salt knows this. The sub makes the Dom, and the Dom knows this, it is the sub who carries the weight, the sub who is stronger. (I had the priveledge to read a "Ask the sub" type topic where this was explained in great detail. Not my cuppa tea, but I see now the Sub does choose.) *BUT* when a girl child is raised, away from outside influences, to think "I will serve my husband, that is just how it is." their whole life, the choice is taken away from them. They don't freely choose, because they were not allowed to grow to have their own mind. Am I making sense? ETA: And a male polygamist would *NEVER* get into s/M. It is competely different. I'll dig up the topic (which got quite heated) for your perusal. ETA2: Here it is.
     
  10. southcitymom

    southcitymom New Member

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    I agree that this may well be the case. I will not be surprised to see incest in such an insular group.
     
  11. Seven

    Seven 1984 All Over Again:The Collective Rules

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    I dont understand your use of the word "hypocritical."
    I usually think of hypocrisy as "Do as I say, Not as I do."
     
  12. Seven

    Seven 1984 All Over Again:The Collective Rules

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    I took this one from a post by golfmom ....
    Probably important in the history of anti bigamy laws:

    Reynolds v. United States [​IMG]
    Supreme Court of the United States Argued November 14 – 15, 1878
    Decided May 5, 1879
    Full case name: George Reynolds v. United States
    Citations: 98 U.S. 145; 25 L. Ed. 244; 1878 U.S. LEXIS 1374; 8 Otto 145

    Prior history: Defendant convicted, District Court for the 3rd Judicial District of the Territory of Utah; conviction upheld by Supreme Court of the Utah Territory

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_v._United_States
     
  13. Seven

    Seven 1984 All Over Again:The Collective Rules

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    I KNOW! LOL .....
    who in their right mind would want 2 spouses, let alone 30! :crazy:

    unless only one (if that) has any community property rights! :confused:

    hmmmmm .... is Texas a community property state?
     
  14. Seven

    Seven 1984 All Over Again:The Collective Rules

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    LOL :D

    <said in the manner of High Sierra>
    Purses? They don't got no stinking purses!
     
  15. mollymalone

    mollymalone Former Member

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    There's bigamy as in polygamy, and then there's bigamy as in criminal conduct. Ie.. we've all seen on courttv or other crime news programs where there are men or women who con people out of their savings or property by bigamist marriages.

    If the adults come into the relationship of their own free will, I agree, that's their deal. But to have the women or children raised into this without any ability to make an educated and intelligent choice on their own without force, it's absolutely wrong.

    I think you're right, from the many articles I've read there's a high prevalence of allegations of incest within the sect.
     
  16. LinasK

    LinasK Verified insider- Mark Dribin case

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    This is the bottom line- these females, especially the young girls who've just reached puberty have been violated without any choice or even knowledge on their part that it is wrong!!!!!:furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:
    I hope all the FLDS men go to prison, and their sect is disbanded!:behindbar:behindbar:behindbar
     
  17. golfmom

    golfmom Former Member

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    You know it's sort of an interesting side-line to the effects on children of adulterous affairs.

    I have two girlfriends who were raised by single moms that were the result of affairs with married men. They were the secret children. They knew that their dads had full-on family lives and that there are siblings out there that they'll never know. Both women are adults now, but there is long lasting and permanent scars they carry. Both feel "not good enough" ... not good enough to be acknowledged in their daddy's eyes, not worthy of his love and support. They're resentful that they missed out on what a whole other family received. Both women are in their 40's AND neither of them are willing or able to break the cycle of secrecy. They dream about calling their unknown siblings, but are terrified of being rejected. I know it's not against the law to have an affair and have children outside of your marriage, but the effects can be positively sickening.

    And, it's not just men who are guilty of this, I know a woman who had a baby and gave it to family members to raise. Shortly afterwards she had three other children she raised herself. Somehow, along the way the original child, a boy, found his birth certificate. She never would acknowledge him, causing a huge rift between the entire family, even on his death bed ... she still rejected him. Even after her younger children supported their oldest sibling, she still wouldn't accept him. I was talking to his wife and she said ... we could have lived in a mansion except for the lifetime of therapy he needed.

    JMO, but it may be legal, but it ain't right.
     
  18. southcitymom

    southcitymom New Member

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    Thanks for sharing those stories, GM. You make some great points. It's also nice to hear someone acknowledge that many parents who do things legally screw up royally as well.
     
  19. mysteriew

    mysteriew A diamond in process

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    The marriage ideal is one man, one woman- til death do you part.

    Yet reality is that adultery often comes into the marriage, divorce and remarriage is rampant and open marriages and triads are not unknown. When is the last time you have seen anyone arrested and convicted for these "crimes" against marriage?
     
  20. Seven

    Seven 1984 All Over Again:The Collective Rules

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    I brought this over from another thread because it's about polygamy laws/Supreme Court Canada.

    Both Canada and Mexico concern me on this issue because of the fact that the multinational corporations are trying to morph us into one big North American Economic Alliance, one big marketplace where profit is all that counts and "inconvenient" laws are ignored.

    The link is to a story about the Canadian FLDS.
    At least the kids there have tricycles! :rolleyes:
    But that fricken Prophet Winston Blackmore: " . . . wouldn't say how many children he has or how many wives. One of the children on his property said there are 116 Blackmore children.

    Blackmore told CTV News that he has "plenty enough" children. When it comes to the number of wives, he said he has "just enough, so I don't chase anybody else's."

    For some reason, that makes me feel like :sick:

    I can't tell from that story what the polygamy laws currently are there, but I'm going to start researching that, too. Because these guys who run their little fiefdoms via labor from their harems' offspring are acting like they're just happy little clams without a qualm about their shameless use of other human beings for their own profit.

    It's just wrong to force any individual to be a pawn in someone else's game, a baby factory or a beast of burden, relentlessly trained from birth that that's their proper place in the universe. I get sick just thinking about it! :furious:
     
  21. Seven

    Seven 1984 All Over Again:The Collective Rules

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    Thanks for elaborating ..... I have to agree with your sentiment completely.

    Except I am getting hung up on the word "crime." I agree it's a moral "crime," especially when deception (very destructive) is involved.

    I'm gonna stick with "separation between church and state" on this issue. It's possible that marriage was created by men for the purpose of keeping better track of their children/heirs, even though before DNA they used to be able to deny "illegitimate" children any access to their estates. And I don't know which came first, the church or the state.

    But since a lot of societies down through the ages have made actual marriage laws, I'm assuming they've done it because of believing those laws were beneficial to the smoother running of their societies.

    I do agree with you that nobody who's ever taken a vow "until death do us part" and then gotten divorced and gone on to say the same vow to a second person, that person is a hypocrite because he/she knows darn well they didnt keep their promise the first time, so giving the same promise to someone else is completely meaningless.

    But the legal piece of paper is not meaningless.
    It's a social contract, and society enforces it for a reason.
    It's enforced by law enforcement ..... usually.
    Unfortunately, it's not being enforced by LE that's also polygamous (in places like Colorado City).

    That's corruption, plain and simple.
    I've even read that they don't allow females to get driver's licenses so that, in case a girl tries to escape in a car, any member of the community can call the police who will, thereby, have ready-made "probable cause" to stop the car when they see it.

    The more I find out about the corruption that's a natural outcome of bigamy/polygamy, the more convinced I am that the laws against it need to start being enforced and the penalties increased because of its destructiveness on the lives of the children.
     

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