Discussion in 'Travis Alexander Trial - The State vs. Jodi Arias' started by bessie, Feb 21, 2016.
Marking my spot.
It was at the very end of the last thread, part 2 of day 25. I sure didn't want to accidentally reproduce one more time, the mien of St. Jodith all in nunly black with that wimple of hair, pale demeanor of the cloistered, lips that don't part much as if in prayer and contemplation, tremulous voice....
? Travis did go to OKC in March 2008. Some details:
1. He spoke to friends about wanting to take Mimi along for the roadtrip, as part of a group of folks travelling together.
2. That plan didn't happen for whatever reason, maybe because TA thought twice about it. OKC is PPL and flashy parties and everyone talking money. Mimi is Mormon aristocracy.
3. The killer went with Travis. She had been anticipating this roadtrip for months, planning for it, texting Travis about it. She and Travis on the road again, just the two of them, checking off things on the list.
4. The trip likely became much more meaningful to her as it approached because she (and Travis) knew by the end of February she'd be leaving Mesa within a month.
5. The "big" special singular road trip there and back was one of those killer's style fantasies. Yes, they stopped at a few places on the way and on the way back, but iirc, those stops added on a few days total to a trip that for Travis was centered on convention.
For Travis, stopping along the way was multi-tasking, living to the fullest, and as his desire to travel in a group with Mimi along indicated, had nothing whatsoever to do about wanting to spend special time with the ***.
6. Once they arrived, Travis largely avoided JA for the entire convention. He didn't take her (or anyone) to the executive director's dinner, from the killer's "understanding," because Chris and Sky would give TA "crap."
When he texted her it was to largely to find out where she was. He needed to know that because he was at various times trying to hook up with CL (who was sharing a room with the killer), trying to make his way to a gathering in Chris and Sky's room (the killer was SO not invited), and in general.....trying to not be anyplace where he might run into her. He didn't even want to give her his room number.
7. The night I'm pretty sure the *** met Ryan was the night TA was trying very hard to meet up with CL, who was trying with all her might as well, but who couldn't dislodge the killer who had attached herself to CL with crazy glue.
JA dragged CL to the party ( IMO she was snooping CL's phone during their shared room stay) keeping CL away from Travis AND giving herself a shot at lining up a replacement Travis.
What a gal.
BTW....the 1st day upon return from OKC is when the diamond ring and journal went missing, and when TA found his roommie's camera in his BMW.
...an earthly creature, tired of sin, solemnly fading towards heaven...
I think I maybe misunderstood what you were saying, H4M, so my response regarding the thread and the video has no relevance? However, I do like the part about St. Jodith cribbing from a Hollywood nun. She can't do anything without copying someone else.
The stealing of his journal is one reason I suspect she started the thought or planning process of murdering Travis before April. It's pure speculation I believe that she knew that even getting rid of Lisa wasn't going to make Travis consider her as wife material. Stealing his journal would allow her to cross check dates to get lies (although that didn't go well). Reading about his love of Lisa would also have burned the fire of murdeous rage brighter.
I think she could have been seriously considering it as early as April 5, when she was forced to leave Mesa, which would have been extremely humiliating for her.
I'm sure when she moved to Mesa, she had no plans to ever leave. She wanted to assimilate into the community as Travis' soul-mate and the best thing that ever happened to him. But really, the seeds of her behavior were present from day one. Travis was never more than an object to her, a means to an end. As her relationship with Travis devolved from claimed soul-mate to annoying psycho-stalker-ex due to the dichotomous nature of their characters, Travis, and the knowledge he had gained about her true character, became more and more of a threat to her, and since he was never more than an object to her, ending his life in order to save her reputation became an operative dynamic of her innate logic.
Problem is, if NA55 was JA then he spent over 24 hours sexting with her, asking if she knew what PPL was, then she came over to his house in Mesa on May 13 and they had sex.
Just didn't happen. NA55 can't be the killer. To believe she set up TA, not the other way around, is to believe she hired a hooker and paid her to text for a day and a half and then to go have sex with Travis.
I actually thought the latter at first, until the discussion over on BK's site, and finding out NA55's phone number was from Riverside, CA.
The person most familiar with the texts- and all the connected phone numbers- is the volunteer who went through all the original records- a nightmare job which took her months- to put them in a usable format. She's the person who proposed the idea, which she's pretty sure about, that Travis and an accomplice set JA up, not vice versa.
IMO the person Travis referred to as too good to be true is Mysterious Maria, aka the killer. He was right.
About Mimi changing her mind. They never really clicked in any meaningful way, despite all his talk about her being the one. She was close to 30 too and unmarried, a true oddity in that community. Travis felt very insecure around her, the most she ever committed to the idea of him was to tell him- I'm interested, but don't know how much.
Her father was on the counsel of bishops Travis "confessed" his sexual transgressions to in late January 2008. Mimi was friends with Lisa's roommate who knew all about the stalking and tire slashings. Mimi has said she thought at the time that the killer had followed she and Travis on one of those few dates.
I think Mimi said she'd consider him, asked around, and backed away.
She stole that one journal mid-March, and a second journal on her way out of Mesa, which Travis didn't realize until about 2 weeks later. He texted her an incredibly wrenching plea to return them if she had taken them, that it "would be the sickest thing" she'd ever done to him.
The first journal was the one he had still been writing in, the second journal was the one just before that. He wrote in his replacement journal, repeatedly, of how awful he felt about the loss of the first journal because it covered most of the time he had spent with LISA, which was July 07- Feb 08.
The other journal she stole on the way out, plus journal one, would have covered all the time Travis had known her.
BTW, the killer left a goodbye note in the replacement journal on April 1, so would have read why he lamented the journal's loss.
But not a Hollywood nun! Jodi could be "Christ-like" -
whenever she wanted!
Why ever Brewer, I think Matt was different. He knew there was something very wrong with her, all the more so in the fall of 2007 when he told her she should commit herself to a mental hospital or at least go on meds.
No way the *** would let that opportunity go by. I bet she told Matt that Travis was responsible for her losing it, and that began a deep sucking in of Matt that ended with him forging the pedo letters for her.
I'm not sure she told him on June 3 that she was on her way to kill Travis, but I have little doubt what she said in the first call she made after killing Travis, middle of the desert and night, and that call was to Matt.
I loved your description. Did I lose track of a bouncing ball, though? Not sure what you mean about me thinking what you said was irrelevant?
I was responding about the trial video link someone had posted, which was exactly what I was about to go in search of for another thought, watched a section of it and ....up popped that statement by her that they did not make a sex video that day.
JM wrote in his book that they had made a video, which is.....puzzling.
I think she had Brewer pretty much where she wanted him. She caused him a lot of grief, financially and otherwise, yet he never turned on her. As for specifically why Brewer for the gas cans, probably simply because she knew he had them, they were hers for the asking. It was only right that he should help her.
Do you think she actually told Matt she killed him? I highly doubt that. She may have said something like: "Hey Matt, guess what? I'm finally over Travis, really and truly! In fact, I'm on my way to see this great new guy right now, his name is Ryan Burns, and he's way better than Travis in every way (secret thought: he's alive, for one). I'm happy happy happy, and normal normal normal!"
That's real good Hope. It seems right on in many aspects.
A couple things that seem to stand out to me with JA is everything she does has a purpose and an alternate backup plan. So if something didn't quite go the way she wanted it to then she would use her backup plan.
She thought of herself as the puppet master with Travis and others being her marionettes.
I don't think she was ever sincere in being a Mormon so I think she treated all of Travis friends as one big puppet show. The main plot of the show was getting Travis into a long term commitment with her and when that began to fall apart any of the side players would do just fine. Like Ryan or guy on airplane.
She wasn't capable of sincerity to be able to make a real relationship work so no matter who it was with the end result was always the same failure of a relationship. Only this time it was different. She had graduated into a much more devilish person and with the more evil acts she did she began to enjoy it and gained confidence in thinking she was fooling everyone.
Like slicing tires, once, and then twice again.....Oh who could have done it? Isnt it amazing how sly I am in getting away with everything. I am so much smarter thane all these puppets. I just need to pull a few more strings here and some more over there.
We see her pathological escalation with the way she would report the Helio phone stolen. Going right to LE and not afraid to report phone stolen even while planning something much more devious. Same with the robbing of her grandparents gun. When they found out and reported it stolen she did not hesitate to still bring the same gun along. She was too cunning in her mind for that to even matter. She would just throw it away when done. No way LE would ever find out the same .25 caliber was used in Travis house to kill him. No, that wont matter (LOL).
She got bolder and bolder in her evilness. With Travis her attempted manipulation was to the extreme when she began faking she was talking to other people and letting him accidentally see the emails to get him jealous. He knew and suspected by then what she was doing but he played along in some of the cases to see how far she would take it before he dropped the bomb that he was onto her.
I think she was using the Helio to construct the phone sex tape. She wanted the tape to be mostly Travis egging on the whole thing and she was just an innocent player getting roped into it. She would use the tapes existence as a weapon to threaten travis that she would threaten to send it to his friends or Bishop. As well as some pictures she still had.
Her plan ebbed and flowed as her relationship with him went back and forth of being on the brink of the final end but then 1 more visit or 1 more phone call or 1 more email would happen. It was a constant see saw back and forth towards the end. She always had the hope that he would give up and take her back and they would live happily ever after. She was so obsessed she could not let him go. She had to keep trying. Her attempts got more and more bizarre with a lot of reverse physhcology since he was already mad at her so she used his madness in bizarre attempts to win him back. She was hoping it would break him and he would some day beg her to come back to him.
Finally when the writing was on the wall and she realized Travis was onto her fully and there was no recovery of her getting back into his life she made the decision that she would off him and she started to position the evidence she had to help make it look like it could not have been her.
The setup of the date with Ryan. The continued contact with PPL persons. The Journals and new journal entries that she would write in after the fact. Attending the memorial. Any sex tapes would show how he liked her and she was just an innocent girl being asked to do things for him. To her that tape was all one sided with Travis requesting everything from her and she obliging. She could not "hear" the real contents of what we heard. She could not hear how she was also the instigator on that tape. She could not hear herself egging him on to an extent as well. She blocked that out and could not see or hear that part. To her it was the perfect tape but to some of us it was so obviously snipped and cut and pasted together from different discussions to try to make him look much worse.
By then she was so delusional she thought everything she did was the perfect next chapter in this horror puppet show. Nobody knew what she was doing with his emails. Nobody knew that she had snuck into his house before. Nobody knew of their secret discussions. It was all so perfect it had to work. It would solve her obsession problem so she could turn to the next victim. It was the only way she could ever stop thinking of him. It was the only way she could close the chapter.
Unfortunately she did not see how many other people knew about her games and knew how she really was. If she had then maybe there was a chance she would have realized she would be caught. But her arrogance kept her from seeing that part. Her schemes always worked to her and so she thought this would work too. What she did not realize was all her schemes never really did work but people just would not tell her to her face that they knew of her kind and knew the things she was doing. Like the slicing of the tires. Nobody except Travis confronted her to tell her they knew she was the one who did it. So she always came away from her plans thinking she was puling everything off without anyone ever knowing. It added to her arrogance towards the end. She had a severe case of tunnel vision towards the end.
Sorry for the long post.
What I've concluded for myself is that her thoughts and plans and feelings can't be plotted on a straight line. She lied to everyone, including herself, and couldn't keep either her own lies or truths straight.
She genuinely tried to believe in the Law of Attraction garbage, I think, because it was all about how to get what you want. She wanted to own Travis and for a time seemed to believe thinking a set way could make that happen.
She was having very dark, probably very violent thoughts in fall 2007. What bothered her wasn't the thoughts themselves, but the possibility bad thoughts would interfere with the good thoughts which would bring Travis around.
BPD factors in. She'd feel slighted or hurt or rejected and for the next few days, regular as clockwork, she'd make Travis pay for his transgressions against her. But after that she'd go right back to her supreme arrogance that Travis would be hers, IMO.
I don't think she gave up - finally and totally- on Travis as husband until the end of April. After she did so there was no back and forth- everything was about destroying Travis.
ETA. A non-Travis related example of her back and forth and delusional thinking:
Summarized based just on what she wrote in her journal--
1st week March. Leaving Mesa. Won't be doing PPL anymore.
Mid March- psyched about PPL. Next year I'll have earned my own way to the executive director's banquet. Goals to meet by July: become executive director.
3rd week in March: I need to work harder at this...but this is my 2 year anniversary in PPL and I realize I haven't made it very far. Lesson learned. I'll work harder.
Last week in March. I'm at PPL briefing. I am so bored. (Turns page in journal and writes a list of the 45 or so things she's looking for in a husband.
Leaves Mesa, and never does PPL again except to conspire with Gus.
I think she did tell him. And I think she told him not out of trust or friendship or need or the like, but to clinch her ownership of him.
You think she ever forgave him for Bianca? Not her style. He was stalked by her just like Bobby had been before him. He knew she was obsessed with Travis. Because nothing is ever her fault, she would have blamed Travis, and IIRC, Matt was willing to say he had seen her Travis -inflicted bruises.
The story she told about what she and Matt did on June 3 is BS. They didn't have tuna tartare and sing kareoke. She was at his house opening a Flickr account in TA's name and posting pics, and IMO, making him complicit.
I can't see her telling him she was planning a murder, or had committed one. He already considered her mentally unstable, and that would only have confirmed it, and driven him further away, and I think she would know that.
I think later on, when the truth came out that she had killed him, she sold the abuse story to him hard, and knew well how to do that with him in particular, which is how she got his cooperation with the pedo letters, but telling him, or anyone else, before she absolutely had to, would never serve her purpose.
But then, Gus is a PPL GOD.
Fitting company for one who even smells like a goddess, then.