Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by madeleine, May 12, 2010.
Thanks in advance for voting
Edit: DA's not DA,I mean both Hunter and Lacy.
No one knows whether this crime was committed by one person or more (IDI,RDI,doesn't even matter).So how on earth can we discuss clearing people.Especially clearing them because DNA doesn't match.I am talking now of EVERYBODY who was cleared because of DNA.
Since no one knows,not even LE or the DA,how many people were involved in this how can we talk about people being cleared?
Same re clearing them because handwriting didn't match.
Let's take the following scenario,there were 3 people involved,one's the DNA owner,one's the RN writer and there's another one.Maybe LE/DA cleared one and lost access to the other two by it.And this is just one example outta SO many which ARE possible in this case.
The only people who should have been 100% cleared are those with solid alibi's of being out of town.
you make a good point about what if there were multiple people involved it would make several things take on different meanings.
ITA!And I mean SOLID.
I believe the DA's have all been right where they should be, in that they haven't falsely arrested anyone. Commendable, really, what with all the lynch-mob mentality people in the tabloids and writing books.
Its simple: All family, friends, neighbors should've been cleared because neither their DNA nor handwriting match and they have alibis.
Was there someone whose DNA matched, or handwriting matched, or had no alibi and thus they shouldn't have been cleared? How can you NOT clear someone who matches neither DNA nor handwriting? What would you have to hold them on?
If a suspect's DNA doesn't match then probably they didn't sexually assault or murder JBR. Likewise if a suspect's handwriting doesn't match they probably didn't write the note. The DA's office hasn't been using the DNA exclusively, but has also used the handwriting.
The lack of any local suspects is consistent with FFDI. I'm surprised nobody has figured that out yet.:waitasec:
What evidence do you have that the DNA is connected to the crime and to the offender? Also, Patsy Ramsey could not be excluded as the ransom note writer. In fact, several well respected QDEs have stated they believed she did write the note. Citations for these QDE opinions can be found easily here on Websleuths using the "Search" routine.
The evidence we have that the DNA is connected to the crime is the locations where the DNA was discovered: three (3) locations on two (2) separate articles of clothing JBR was known to be wearing at the time. These locations are consistent with the sexual assault part of the crime: the inside crotch of her underwear and each side of the longjohn waistband.
Maybe you should consider reading that again because its really signficant. They found MORE DNA on JBR that MATCHED the underwear DNA! Huge breakthru courtesy of ML as evidenced in the news media who has completely dropped reference to JR or PR as suspects.
Since the DNA is evidenced to be related to the crime and doesn't belong to PR/JR, and since BPD failed (yes FAILED) to match PR/JR to the ransom note YEARS AGO, its really, really safe to clear PR/JR except by over-the-edge BORG.
There's a lot of mistaken people in here. I suggest using the search feature if you would like to reread some of their posts (LOL).
We've already discussed the ways the DNA could have innocently arrived on the panties and long johns. We've also discussed how the DNA does not exclude Ramsey involvement.
Sorry, but your statement that the "BPD failed" to match PR to the ransom note is false. Just use the SEARCH function here or on Google to find QDEs who disagree with your statement.
The evidence, circumstantial and direct, suggests familial involvement of some degree. I am also sure there is evidence that has not been made public.
It is pretty amazing to me how low a profile John Ramsey keeps now that Patsy is dead. I find that interesting.
DNA showing up on more than one article of clothing JBR was wearing at the time is evidence that could be there innocently. That the DNA is located where it is located, instead of on her feet bottom, is evidence that the DNA is instead linked to the crime. Your previous statement that there is no evidence the DNA is linked to the crime is false. Evidence that the DNA is linked to the crime has been provided. Whereas evidence that the DNA is not linked to the crime has not been provided.
What?? Better slow down and read this:
No BPD-Hired Experts Identified Patsy as RN Author. "During the investigation, the Boulder Police Department and Boulder County District Attorney's Office consulted at least six handwriting experts. (SMF P 191; PSMF P 191.) All of these experts consulted the original Ransom Note and original handwriting exemplars from Mrs. Ramsey. (SMF P 205; PSMF P 205.) Four of these experts were hired by the police and two were hired by defendants. (SMF P 191; PSMF P 191.) None of the six consulted experts identified Mrs. Ramsey as the author of the Ransom Note. (SMF P 195; PSMF P 195.) [Emphasis added.]
OK I don't know what you call it but I call it BPD failure to match PR to the ransom note. Its over, no tap backs. The jello is jigglin and all that. PR didn't write the note.
This is wrong also.
There is no evidence that suggests familial involvement to any greater extent than someone who just lived there.
I find that irrelevant. Besides, I'm not sure running for office is low profile.
unfortunatly with this case i think a simple they don't match the DNA so there cleared wont work, especially if a FFDI as there is nothing to stop said faction from recruting someone who lived next door 3 streets away ect.
anyway thats IMO
I am not saying treat them and publicly name them as suspects but at least don't take them of the POI list since we have no idea how many people were involved in this.
We don't know if the same person who wrote the note is also the DNA owner.The DA and LE were both wrong here IMO, they assumed it was ONE killer,LE cleared people because in their minds the RN is the killer and ML cleared people based on the idea that the DNA owner is the killer.But nothing shows whether there is indeed only ONE killer.
I agree with slug here.If SFF how do we know they didn't have help from an insider?(who was cleared because his DNA and handwriting didn't match>lead's a dead end then)
I happen to agree these days with the RN because after almost fourteen (14) long years NOT ONE of the claims of the so-called 'bogus' ransom note has EVER been ruled out by fact. That is, claims that there were three people belonging to a group that represented a small foreign faction who dont like fat cats, respects the business but not the country, etc., etc. has not been ruled out.
Even the original motive of kidnapping for ransom has never been ruled out. Maybe Igor got carried away with himself.
There SHOULD be a scenario with three people in it.
For a SFF they happened to know a lot about JR's family/house and business.I still find the broken window/point of entry scenario to be bs.Even if SFF (maybe the group just called themselves like this,doesn't mean they WERE foreign),who knows where they could have gotten a key from.
This is the reason why LE should have questioned everyone till they dropped dead,maybe someone gave up info about the R's without even knowing.A housekeeper,a gardener,etc
The killer could have entered through an unlocked door or with a key. Could have left through a door.
Under assault by a national and international media feeding frenzy, some of whom were offered incentives to find (even stimulate) headline attention grabbing material, the Ramsey's did their best to handle this predatory onslaught, a Pearl Harbor like attack on their dignity and privacy, on their essence as human beings. No one is trained how to cope with that kind of pressure. They were stripped naked before a world-wide audience, in a vacuum of, in the absence of and total disregard for America's honored tradition of common decency. "Innocent until proven guilty," a long held sacred tenet of our coveted way of life in the land of the free, left on a train for the coast (along with the Holy Ghost). There was no way to prepare for it.
As if that wasn't more than enough humiliation, at the very same time they were left grieving from the shocking, brutal murder of their youngest child. Under siege, this marauding gang of character assassins and hooligans, on orders from powerful media conglomerates' executives, (businessmen relaxing and imbibing spirits in penthouse luxury thousands of miles away) aimed their lust for dark gossip and whatever else would produce profit, directly at this deeply wounded mom and dad. And the citizens of the Home of the Brave feasted on every "breaking" news flash screeching across amber waves of grain, Lincoln and Washington turning over in their graves. It was a media bonanza.
Responses in red above. ther_beatingA_Dead
It seems you didn't read where I stated "BPD" failed to link PR to the note. Because your incessant attempts to redirect focus to posts on this forum, a RDI bastion, sidesteps the issue:
The Boulder Police Deptartment failed to link the handwriting from Patsy Ramsey's exemplars to the ransom note. Period. End of story. Doesn't matter who else said what. It was over at that moment. They're the investigating authority, not ST or Epstein or whoever other tabloid hire Monday morning QB armchair talkshow guy.
PR was asked to write verbatim the exact RN words using both her right and left hands. If I were her attorney I would never have allowed it because it leads the witness whoever it is.
BPD created the opportunity on their own turf, and couldn't win on their own terms. Its over. RDI lost this battle. There are no tap backs. No second judgement. No looking back.
I finally have a theory of what I think could have happened. Im leaning with PR was mentally unhinging. I think she was abusive to JBR. the pageants, the dying of the hair, the fabrications that her daughter spoke french etc. Just not quite right in the head.
I think she struggled with JBR that late night and somehow bashed in her head. she thought JB was dead.
She needed to point away from domestic abuse so
she panicked, took her down to the basement, staged a sexual killing outside the cellar door using paintbrush, cord, tape from her paint tote.Dragged her in the wc, arms above her head, went to dryer grabbed her blanket and covered her. Barbie night gown was static cling and fell to the side. Turned of wc light ,relatched the door and went upstairs started freaking and got the idea to write the note with multiple clues so that JR could slowly figure it out. his bonus amount, his nickname the misspelling of business and posession, maybe their fav movies lines etc. I dont think JR was involved but soon figured out that PR was and protected his family from there on out.
He gave her a pass because he had lost so much and knew she was mental and dying of cancer.
The "and hence" it the note is a clue as well.
Right on all counts.
Your statement might be valid if DNA wasn't so easy to transfer, not to mention the increasing sensitivity of DNA testing methods is a double-edged sword.
I call it an ill-informed conclusion from a third party who only saw early preliminary reports that were taken illegally. I'm more interested in what the more recent reports have to say.
Oh, no? How much time do you have?
I'm pretty sure she was still alive at that point.
Separate names with a comma.