Questions that I have

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by MrsMush99, Oct 3, 2003.

  1. MrsMush99

    MrsMush99 Former Member

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    Hello Everyone,

    I've never posted on the JBR forum. This will be my first. One of the reasons is because I know only the basics of this case. I really interested in learning more. I really don't have a strong opinion as to what happened because I don't think I have all the facts. I would love to be a part of this forum, but I feel I should get some of my facts straight.

    One questions that I have is who is Susan Stine?

    The other one that I have is has the man who was playing Santa Clause been looked at closely and eliminated?

    Thank to all of you who respond. I hope to be a part of this forum.

    :D
     
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  3. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Welcome! I do not represent the majority on this forum,as I believe Jonbenet was killed by an intruder,however I read and give consideration to all ideas. If the Ramseys are one day found to be the killers,everything I have read and studied about criminal behaviors is wrong and I have wasted years on bad information.
    The story begins with lies,twisted truths,innuendo and theories presented by a team of law enforcement officers that were covering their tracks for bungling the biggest case of their lives.
    The media took it from there and ran with the stories that would sell,neglecting any exculpatory evidence that would benefit the Ramseys.


    Santa was looked at by this police department, yet never cleared publicly ,to my knowledge. There were problems with santa,his wife had written a play based on a true story ,the Sylvia Likens story, yet in her play the girl was murdered in a basement,(not the manner in which the real child was murdered)
    Santa's own child was abducted 20 yrs to the day of Jonbenet's murder,she was unharmed ,however her friend was molested. There have been suggestions that this unidentified abductor was possibly in disguise. There was another unsolved murder of a child in the area where santa lived,years old,as well.
    Santa himself seemed to love Jonbenet,saying so,saying how special she was. This hit some as odd,he had children of his own,and normally grown men do not call other's children angels and dote on them. He did however keep a harp on which he engraved the names of dead children,many found this strange.

    He had associations with others, that were suspect,perhaps because of his position at the university,perhaps for other reasons never uncovered.

    His own child ,a felon,was at one time incarcerated for kidnapping and abduction. It is felt in some circles that genetics weigh heavily on the behaviors of children.

    Santa was sickened ,and saddened by the death of Jonbenet,and by his being seen at times as a suspect. His health,which was an ongoing problem sent him to the northeast to establish a new residence. Some saw this as curious,that he would leave his long time home . If he did not kill Jonbenet his story is sad,as he was never cleared,and in the minds of a few remained a suspect til the day he died.
    JMO IMO
     
  4. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    Welcome, MrsMush :)

    Below is a link to a site that will acquaint you with some of the players in the Ramsey case. The info about Susan Stine hasn't been updated, I see. She, like her husband, relocated to Atlanta, GA, where the Ramseys had moved. Susan was an adamant defender of Patsy's and was nicknamed "Patsy's pitbull." Interestingly, the Stines and Ramseys weren't close friends until after JonBenet's death. The Ramseys even moved in with them.

    Who's Who

    Below is a link to a news article about Susan Stine pretending to be Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner and sending bogus emails to people affiliated with the JonBenet case.

    Rocky Mtn news article

    Below is a link to an old article written about the case that includes a description of an incident involving Susan Stine and one her pranks.

    Feeding Frenzy

    Have you read Perfect Murder, Perfect town by Lawrence Schiller? We refer to it often here at the JonBenet forum.

    Santa Bill McReynolds was cleared, though he is still a target for the RST (Ramsey Spin Team) because he is now dead and can't defend himself. Lots of people have been thrown under the bus by the RST, including Ramsey friends.
     
  5. Britt

    Britt New Member

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    Good post, Ivy... and welcome, MrsMush :)

    Santa Bill McReynolds was cleared in December, 1999.

    Here's a quote from Lawrence Schiller, author of Perfect Murder Perfect Town, from the Geraldo Rivera Show Live, March 16, 2000:

    ...Bill McReynolds was cleared in December by Alex Hunter's office publicly.

    Geraldo Live

    BTW, from the same interview, here's an interesting Schiller quote about the Ramseys' book:

    Now Patsy I can't still figure out through the book. She doesn't come across to me as being somebody who's believable or is being honest through those pages. John Ramsey does come across as being honest, as much as his lawyers will allow him to be...

    Schiller thinks Patsy is a liar. Interesting. This supports my belief that Schiller is a PDI theorist.
     
  6. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_908882,00.html
    pretty recent article and they didn't mention being cleared?

    Burke has been officially cleared,however,that doesn't stop many from discussing him as a suspect.
    Santa ,I do not believe was cleared as Schiller stated,I do not remember his being on the list,I believe this was an error on schillers part. I think Santa should have been cleared in the same manner the Whites were,as a courtesy.
    IMO JMO

    BTW,who has the power to clear,Hunters office? the BPD,Judge Carnes?
    http://www.thesundaymail.news.com.au/printpage/0,5942,6247457,00.html
     
  7. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    In 2000 Lin Wood tried to get Alex Hunter to sign a statement under oath stating that "all questions related to" Burke's "possible involvement" in JonBenet's death "were resolved to the satisfaction of investigators." Hunter refused to sign the statement. He also refused to sign a statement that Wood drew up stating that Burke "has never been viewed by investigators as a suspect." Hunter also would not sign anything stating that Burke "has not been and is not a suspect."

    Hunter did agree to sign a statement saying that "no evidence has ever been developed ... to justify elevating Burke Ramsey's status from witness to suspect."

    Hunter may have had suspicions about Burke but had no hard evidence to prove he was involved in his sister's death. At any rate, Burke was never officially cleared.
     
  8. Casshew

    Casshew Former Member

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    MrsMush... I found it so hard to believe it was the parents or their son burke that murdered JonBenet but after seeing the handwriting on the ransom note compared to Patsy Ramsey's handwriting I got chills. :confused:

    When you have a chance..... be sure to look at the handwriting analysis thread posted on this forum... it's an eye-opener.

    Cass....
     
  9. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    Rocky Mountain News:

    The stories prompted Boulder DA Alex Hunter's office to make an unprecedented statement. In May 1998, Hunter publicly announced that Burke Ramsey was not a suspect in his sister's death

    let's not split hairs with "clearing" suspects,we all know stories where many offenders have been cleared

    Burke should never have been a suspect in the mind of anyone. IMO JMO
     
  10. SisterSocks

    SisterSocks What a wild and crazy trip its been

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    Hi Cass , actually Patsy scored low on the handwriting lingustics

    I don't think Pats actually Killed JB but , although she scored low I do think she could have written the RN=(


    I am also FENCE SITTER .
     
  11. Britt

    Britt New Member

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    All of the above, except Judge Carnes.
     
  12. Maxi

    Maxi Guest

    Officially, no one is a suspect in this case. People come and go under the umbrella of suspicion. At least, some people come and go. The Ramseys stayed under it because the BPD was unable to put anyone else in the house at the time of the murder. They were also unable to eliminate either Ramsey by means such as DNA, lack of physical capability to do the crime, alibi, etc. That was the statement of BPD Chief Beckner.

    Beckner also said that anyone who had been cleared could be uncleared. That leaves us a pretty wide range of theories and potential suspects to discuss.
     
  13. Blazeboy3

    Blazeboy3 Inactive

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    http://www.*************.com/enquirer.htm

    ENQUIRER ARTICLE ON THE RAMSEYS

    Note the amasing similarities with this report and some of the reversals posted on the Ramseys, calling Jon Benet a "manequin" backwards, and the reversed references to "Fantasy" etc.

    Patsey Ramsey has secretly confessed to the murder of her daughter, JonBenet, says a top forensic psychologist. Dr. Judianne Dense-Gerber, an expert on the criminal mind, says unmistakeable evidence of Patsey's guilt is written in her own words in "The Death of Innocence", the new book penned by Patsey and her husband John. In their book JonBenet's parents point accusatory fingers at former friends and employees, mysterious pedophiles and midnight cat burglars.

    And during numerous appearances on TV, the couple continue to stanchly declare their innocence. But Dr. Densen-Gerber, a congressional mental health advisor, said years of experience have shown her that the spoken and written words of killers subconsiously reveal hidden clues to their guilt.

    And she finds plenty of clues that show the Ramseys are secretly confessing their guilt in the book.

    "The more you say, the more you reveal" Dr. Densen-Gerber explained. to The Enquirer. "What the Ramsey's say, especially Patsey, is:"Catch me if you can- please catch me".

    Dr. Densen-Gerber, 65, is an acclaimed therapist and lawyer who has studied the case from the very beginning. And she says that JonBenet's mom points a finger of guilt at herself in her description of a panic attack she had about a month after the christmas 1996 murder in Boulder, CO.

    Patsey writes that her mind suddenly filled with the image of jonBenet's murderer slowly tightening a dog leash-like noose around the childs neck. Her body trembled and her heart pounded as she fought to breathe - "as if someone were strangling me. I desperately gasped for air".

    Dr. Densen-Gerber was stunned by Patsey's description of the attack.

    "In all my years, I've never heard someone use the word 'strangling' to describe an anxiety attack". "Its one important clue from Patseys subconscious that clearly indicates the guilt she is feeling." Another important clue revealed is, says the expert, when Patsy indicates she has created a fantasy world to hide in - a world where the former Miss America contestant puts herself on par with Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis and even the Virgin Mary. She writes that she chose to wear a black veil to JonBenet's funeral because a picture of Jackie wearing a veil 'flashed across my mind'.

    And while examining a figure of the Virgin Mary on a cross she wore, she 'had this immediate empathy' with the mother of Jesus Christ because 'she watched them kill her child' Patsy writes.

    These images are clear signs that Patsey is searching for a way to deal with guilt, said the Dr.

    "Its called restitutive fantasy - a fake world a parental killer creates to restore the feeling of innocence, a place where you come to believe you really didn't do it."

    And Dr. Densen-Gerber pointed to even more passages in the book where she finds hidden meaning. Patsy's writing shows that to cope with her guilt, she has convinced herself that JonBenet wasn't a real person and instead imagines the little beauty queen as a playdoll, the expert disclosed. Patsy tells of a special present that she gave JonBenet that fateful Christmas day: A 24-inch specially crafted doll fashioned to look like JonBenet all done up as a beauty queen. "Patsy dwells a lot on that doll," said Dr.

    D-G. "I beleive she thinks of JonBenet as a toy. After all, Patsy was entering her in these pageants, dressing her up in differant outfits, making her sing and dance, like a little girl would do with a doll."

    And the doll could explain how a mother like patsy ramsey could do the unthinkable - murder her own child.: By turning JonBenet into an inanimate object in her miond. "She imagines she's only killing a plaything, a toy she used to dress up and order around without a peep of complaint." Said Dr. D-G.

    Patsy goes on to say that after she gave JonBenet the doll beneath the christmas tree where her body would later be placed, she asked the girl: "Well now, doesn't she look like you?" JonBenet picked up the doll and held it away from her. "I really don't think she looks that much like me," she said as she laid the doll to one side and ignored it.

    In a 1997 interview with the Enquirer, Patsy also mentioned that JonBenet didn't like the doll and indicated that her daughter thought the done-up doll was "too much". Dr. D-G is convinced tha JonBenets rejection of the doll shows that, deep inside, she was rebelling more and more against the beauty pagaent life patsy had chosen for her. "She was wetting the bed. She was soiling the bed, don't tell me thats not a sign of abuse, physical or mental, going on here."

    In fact, Dr. D-G believes that JonBenet's rejection of the doll that holiday morning may have been the trigger that sent patsy into a killing rage hours later!

    Also in their book, the Ramseys blast the Boulder cops as incompetent, although they offer no new clues to the identity of the intruder they say wrote a ransom note and murdered their daughter in a kidnapping-gone-wrong.

    But Dr. D-G believes their writing reveals far more than they intended. A scenario for how the phony ransom note was actualy written. The rmaseys drew investigators attention when they used the expression 'and hence' in a christmas message a year after the murder. Thats because the very same uncommon expression also appeared in the ransom note! In the book, Patsy writes that "John and I had each written a version of the holiday greeting they posted on a family website the internet. With both copies in hand, John dictated and I typed at the computer as we merged the two into one." Patsy says they may have chosen the expression 'and hence' for their holiday greeting because they'd written the ransom note over and over again for police as samples of their handwriting.

    Dr. -G sees a deeper meaning, a direct parallel to the way John and Patsy composed the fake ransom note together. "In trying to explain it, I'm convinced they are revealing how they actually wrote that note" she explained. "The more you say, the more you reveal!"



    Ramsey reversals page


    AND your thoughts regarding the above URL are ... ???
     
  14. MrsMush99

    MrsMush99 Former Member

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    Thank you everyone for all the information. I will be sure to look at all the links and the handwriting thread. It will take me some time because there is sooooo much information so bear with me please:D

    I have not read Perfect Murder, Perfect Town. I did see the movie last week when it was on. I thought I had the book, but when I went to look for it I couldn't find it. Anyway, I will purchase it sometime this week.

    I know that there were some fibers, hairs and sperm that was found on JonBenet. To my knowledge they were never linked to anyone in the house. Is this correct?


    Thanks again everyone. I'll do my best to keep up!;)
     
  15. Shylock

    Shylock Former Member

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    Old news, Sissi. Burke was cleared by the OLD investigation and the idiot Hunter even issued a public memo stating so.

    HOWEVER, we have no idea if the NEW investigation has also cleared Burke. Burke, as discussed here and on other forums, is a VERY valid suspect since he had both the opportunity and ability to cause the death of his sister.

    BUT, those who believe Burke is involved don't hold out much hope that the new investigation will even consider him, since the new DA is nothing but a bimbo who learned her ethics and job function from her previous boss, Hunter. (The more things change in Boulder--the more they remain the same...)

    IMO
     
  16. Shylock

    Shylock Former Member

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    This is the perfect time to settle this once and for all!

    Know any 10-year old boys, Sissi?

    Go out and buy a few small pumpkins, then have the boy bash them with a baseball bat.

    Then come back here and try telling us that Burke shouldn't be at the top of the suspect list...
     
  17. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    In the first days following the crime it was reported that sperm was found on the body,later it was retracted,and reported as semen no sperm,and even later it was reported no semen,no sperm. Whatever glowed under the luminol test has been suspected as anything from gel soap to saliva,I don't believe we have this information,the BPD may,but we don't.
    The recent depositions involving Wood, have certainly suggested
    it was saliva. However, we have to be careful as so much information that we trust as truth clearly isn't the truth at all.




    JMO
     
  18. MrsMush99

    MrsMush99 Former Member

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    About Burke, what would his motive be? Is anyone of the belief that it was an accident and then it was covered up?

    BTW, I'm so lost on this case that I didn't even know Santa Clause died!
     
  19. Sabrina

    Sabrina Former Member

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    Sissi, IF it was saliva you better bet they would have had the 12 markers. What Wood said was that MAYBE the DNA mixed with JBR's blood in her panties was saliva.

    I say there is no "maybe". If it's a viable sample, the lab analysists would be able to tell.


    Mrs Mush,

    There were no hairs found on JonBenet, I think you are thinking about what was reported as a "public" hair found on the blanket JonBenet was wrapped in. This was later changed to "a body hair". It was only ONE hair.

    I could be wrong, but the fibers mostly all match up to Patsy and John. Fibers matching Patsy's jacket were on the duct tape. Patsy was nowhere near that duct tape so they must have jumped out from John and got on the duct tape when he pulled it off JonBenet's mouthn There may have been some unidentified fibers, but since her body was wiped down I would bet they came from a towel that probably was never collected.
     
  20. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    MrsMush, here is a link to an informative Crime Magazine article I consider a Must Read. The author, Ryan Ross, a Denver legal affairs expert, discusses various aspects of the case and theorizes that JonBenet's death was accidental.

    Solving the JonBenet Case
     
  21. Toth

    Toth Inactive

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    The substance initially thought to be sperm was not. One axiliary hair was found but it is not known to be from the perpetrator necessarily. Some fibers were found in the immediate area of the crime that were found no where else in the house, giving rise to a suspicion they may be from the intruder, but this is not known.
     

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