Questions you'd like answers to... #2

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Bev, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe he was already booked on a flight, but decided to see if he could get on an earlier.

    If there was no 911 call, JonBenet's tears were more likely to have been a result of a mean comment by a peer or having had an accident or any of the myriad of things that can damage a young girl's confidence.
     


  2. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    You lost me at "BR and JB had a confrontation over pineapple." This is just something Kolar cooked up in his fevered imagination. There is no evidence of it.
     
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  3. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    I looked at Burke's interview where he's shown a photo of the bowl of pineapple. It appears that he's being shown a small black and white photo of it.

    If so, why would he be expected to recognize it as pineapple? Especially if he wasn't part of the night's events.
     
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  4. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    And I thought the idea was that JonBenet was being actively abused at the party, hence the 911 call. Why would grandpa fly to Georgia to confront the abuser if the abuser is there in Colorado?
     
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  5. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Well-Known Member

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    We automatically recognize it as a bowl of pineapple in cream because we've been told what it is and we've seen color pics of it.
     
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  6. proust20

    proust20 Active Member

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    I was not saying that BR went vengefully after JB because of a fight over the pineapple. This may or may not be valid. I only was seeking elucidation from those who believe this to be so. If one does not subscribe to this BDI theory, then, of course, no further clarification of the issue is to expected from the skeptics.
    However, in fact, there was a bowl of pineapple and milk, which for my tastes is a rather eccentric combo. This is said to have been a favorite snack of the children. BR's fingerprints are on the bowl. It is possible that the snack was put into it sometime after BR had touched the bowl. Also, PR repeatedly stated that she did not put out the pineapple, and with what she deemed to be an inappropriately sized serving spoon. So, if both PR and BR did not have anything to do with this bowl of fruit, from where did it come? Whoever put out these contents would have to known that this was indeed one of the kids' favorites. Why would a non-family member deliberately use this very particular and eccentric element for staging? And this was accomplished without leaving their fingerprints anywhere in the kitchen, or anyplace in the entire home for that matter.
    JB did have pineapple in her intestines according to the autopsy. Perhaps, it also indicated some milk. That I do not know. The Whites have said that they did not serve pineapple at their party. Either that is true, or they forgot, or they are lying. In any case, the autopsy showed that the pineapple was consumed in a time frame close to JB's death, which seems to rule out the White's party. If JB did not obtain pineapple from the bowl on the bar, from where did she get it? Is there any evidence of an alternate source of it in the house that would have been available to her?
    BR cannot readily ID the photo of pineapple during the mandated interview, which was not conducted by LE, nor was LE present at it. The bowl and its contents were actually there when LE arrived. Perhaps, items are discerned less easily in b&W for some. Doubtlessly, most here are familiar with the syndrome dubbed 'Ramnesia' which is apparently contagious. If this pineapple did pay a role in the events, BR would have been coached, to say the least. (I cautiously hesitate to say brainwashed.) For BR not to recognize it makes him out to be more dim-witted than his scholastic record shows. To infer that it just might, just maybe be one your favorite snacks, which he admits that he was allowed to have often before retiring, is not a great leap of logic even for a 10 yr old. If BR did in fact forget this aspect of what occurred in the house on the most momentous night of his young life, then I suggest that ,as a result. nothing that he claims to remember of that evening and morning can be taken all that seriously.
    In conclusion, I am not saying that BDI. I am just exploring problematic details of this bewildering case.
     
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  7. fr brown

    fr brown Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the Whites forgot or are lying about not serving pineapple. Steve Thomas thinks the pineapple in JonBenet's system came from that bowl. I'm going with him.

    I assume that the person who wrote the ransom note put the bowl in front of JonBenet. There's no reason to assume that Burke was present.

    Once you've clunked her on the head, there's no reason to get rid of the bowl: they're going to find pineapple in her body. But I think in Patsy's place, I would have wiped my fingerprints off. Maybe she forgot.
     
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  8. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Well-Known Member

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    I think the chaos that preceded the blow to the head totally obliterated anything mundane that transpired when they got home. They had to make the events as simple as possible. We got home. She was sleeping. We put her to bed.
     
  9. David Rogers

    David Rogers Well-Known Member

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    Maybe at the party is she they found out about it?
     
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  10. proust20

    proust20 Active Member

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    Then again, the killer may have been unaware that JB ate some pineapple. If so, he/she should not have known that the bowl needed to be wiped down. The autopsy results could have been a surprise. Just sayin'.
    Dr Wecht has stated that head blow came after the strangulation. Which type of lethal force was meant to cover for the other sort? No matter where you turn with the Rs, there are opposite opinions. Although, naturally, opinions are not facts.
     
  11. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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  12. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    proust20,
    The whole family just forgot all about events in the kitchen/breakfast bar. They patently bore no relation to her death, despite heroic theories about Jonbenet being whacked on the head for taking a piece of pineapple?

    The action took place upstairs in her bedroom, check the crime-scene photos out, read the reports regarding clothing left on the floor, fecal matter on objects, and the general disarray, even the wine-cellar was tidier!

    One qualification about her bedroom is it could represent a prior staging, one abandoned in favor of the basement abduction?

    I agree with Dr. Wecht that the head blow was struck after manual strangulation, with the ligature/paintbrush an attempt to obscure this.

    The wine-cellar is all about staging, not much in there including any Christmas gifts, was originally in there.

    Check out what the Pugh family have to say regarding the contents of the wine-cellar, they moved all the Christmas decorations from the cellar to upstairs, so we have independent witness's regarding its contents.

    The whole table required cleaning as it was proof JonBenet never went straight to bed. Its likely the parents were late to the crime-scene, and the pineapple snack was long forgotten about in the panic of staging JonBenet's death?

    .
     
  13. jslk

    jslk Well-Known Member

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    It could be - I dont think it can be ruled in or out as GM without further details. Was GM even in the correct geographical area at the time? Are there any known links between JE/GM and pageanting? Or within the business world?

    I think ideally you'd want to be able to see more face and head features like ears to be able to comment more confidently.
     
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  14. neesaki

    neesaki Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you're totally correct. I just always have "questions". You know how that is, right? ;)
     
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  15. retrometro

    retrometro Well-Known Member

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    Random question: over the years, I've heard ocassional references to authorities having specifc evidence/details about the casethat aren't public knowledge. I realize this is common in criminal investigations. That having been said, it seems like so much has been written about this case and that so many documents have been released over the years that I'm curious: does anyone have any speculation about what the unreleased evidence might be?? Other than the grand jury documents, are there any documents we know of that have been surpressed? Just curious.

    (Usual Disclaimer: I personally lean in the direction of PDI, but I'm open to other theories of what happened).
     
  16. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    retrometro,
    The vast majority of the forensic evidence gathered and the reports generated have never been released, e.g. alleged soiled pajama bottoms in JonBenet's bedroom, dna analysis and reports related to each Ramsey, i.e. dna found deposited on JonBenet.

    Lab results related to the Coroner's findings and report, video and transcript of the Ramsey interviews, the list is really quite large.

    Most of it is sitting in an evidence cage in a depository somewhere in Colorado state, once the case is not a cold-case maybe some it will be released?

    Have you any thoughts as to why Patsy decided on moving JonBenet to the basement rather than just leave her in her bedroom, as relocating her increased the forensic evidence available?

    .
     
  17. Logic101

    Logic101 Member

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    I would venture to say, that had there been previously undisclosed information, Kolar would have provided it, in order to promote his book and theory.

    For sure, had there been as many feces smeared items, as alleged by Kolar, in JonBenet’s bedroom, you would have needed a gas mask just to enter the room! The stench would have been unbearable!
     
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  18. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Well-Known Member

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    I think JonBenet was placed in the wine cellar so she could hopefully be the equivalent of Lazarus.
     
  19. Venom

    Venom Well-Known Member

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    Maybe PR decided to move her to the basement to just to get her out of sight as she didn't want to see what had happened? If PR was going about cleaning things up/staging, maybe seeing her dead daughter was too much and she thought to get her out of sight, out of mind?
     
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  20. proust20

    proust20 Active Member

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    A piece of evidence which I believe has never been released is the nature of the 'birefrigement' material found on JB. This should reveal much about the the assault upon her and also about the degree of staging. I suppose that LE assumes that only those involved with the murder would be able to identify what was used to penetrate JB.
    JB's bedroom does seem a mess. The R's, who had a housekeeper, just had a party in the house. With PR's goals of having a picture perfect home, it's reasonable to think that she would have wanted everything ship shape for that event. Of course, kids can make a mess quickly; and perhaps, LPH was coming in the next day to clean up.
    Dr Wecht believes that JB was killed outside the WC due to a urine stain there. While it is certainly possible that JB was killed in her bedroom, is there any physical evidence to suggest that?
     

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