Questions

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by BrotherMoon, Jan 9, 2004.

  1. BrotherMoon

    BrotherMoon Former Member

    Messages:
    753
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    A little help please.

    Could someone post the site for the picture of the red heart?

    Was the body wiped down?

    Did the garotte have a slip knot or not? Thanks.
     
  2. Loading...


  3. Sundance

    Sundance Genuine Registered User

    Messages:
    427
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  4. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

    Messages:
    2,199
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    BrotherMoon, here's a link to a page on ACandyRose's website containing JonBenet autopsy photos and other information. The photos are on the left side of the page and continue almost to the end of the page. Left click on the photos to enlarge them.

    http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-thebody.htm

    At the bottom of the page is a link to click for ACandyRose's main page.

    (Thanks for your links, Sundance. I didn't know there was another site that had the autopsy photos.)
     
  5. Shylock

    Shylock Former Member

    Messages:
    1,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes, the garrote had a basic slip knot.
    NOTE: By the defination of the word it's not really a "garrote", which is a cord, wire, etc. with a handle on BOTH ends.
     
  6. TLynn

    TLynn New Member

    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Good question, because I've asked for years - slip knot or...not?

    I don't think it was a slip knot

    "The wooden stick used to tighten a cord around her neck and strangle her was 4.5 inches long, broken on both ends and had several colors of paint and varnish. "Korea'' was stamped in gold letters on one end.

    -White cord was wrapped around her neck, knotted at the back. One tail of the knot was four inches, the other 17 inches. Similar cord was tied loosely around her right wrist, on the outside of her knit shirt."

    The STICK was used to strangle her and the cord was KNOTTED at the back.
     
  7. Britt

    Britt New Member

    Messages:
    1,911
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The autopsy report says "double knot."

    Sundance - great site!
     
  8. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

    Messages:
    2,199
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  9. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

    Messages:
    3,053
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes, I agree the device was not a garrote.

    Also, please note that the "heart" on the palm of the hand doesn't look much like a heart, nor does it look like it was drawn by a red pen. The mark more closely resembles a U-shape.

    Almost any six-year-old child could draw a better heart than that, and the red pen was never found. Was the red pen missing because it never existed in the first place?

    Also, please note that that the skin on the interior of the heart is darker than the skin on the outside of the heart. Why?

    I don't think the mark was a drawn heart at all. I think it's a contusion.

    The mark is in the shape of the bottom of a chair leg. Take a plastic chair and press the chair leg against the palm of your own hand. The resulting mark on the palm of your hand will resemble the U-shaped mark on the hand of JonBenet.

    Just my opinion.

    BlueCrab
     
  10. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

    Messages:
    2,199
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    BC...are we looking at the same photo? In the photo I'm looking at, the "heart" clearly appears to have been drawn in red ink, and the skin inside the heart doesn't look noticeably darker than the skin outside it.

    http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenethandheart.jpg
     
  11. Britt

    Britt New Member

    Messages:
    1,911
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The autopsy report says red ink line drawing in the form of a heart. I realize some think Meyer left a lot to be desired as coroner in this case, but I'd think he'd know the difference between an ink drawing and a contusion.

    IMO the drawing looks like a "G"... G for Grandpaugh? A hand drawing to go with the dictionary marked at "incest"? Hints left by the perp re motive?
     
  12. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

    Messages:
    2,199
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think the "heart" resembles a bird looking over its shoulder. At Christmastime, I showed three adult visiting family members the photo individually and asked them what they thought the drawing was supposed to be of. They all said the same thing: a bird. (Actually, one specifically said a chicken.) They're all blood relatives of mine, so maybe that explains the phenomenom... phenonemon... pheno... whatever.
     
  13. Maxi

    Maxi Guest

    I think Schiller said in one of the chats that the double knot appeared to be the kind that forms when some sort of slip knot is pulled tight. Sorry, I can't remember the name of the knot.
     
  14. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

    Messages:
    3,053
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
  15. BrotherMoon

    BrotherMoon Former Member

    Messages:
    753
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks everyone. I was trying to make a connection between the two arms being tied together, the stick and body being tied together and the form of the design on the palm. Other photos clearly show a "G" pattern with a straight line on one side with a curve that goes around the palm to what looks like another straight line. Repeating patterns could be significant.

    If the body was wiped and redressed was that done with the garotte on the neck or was the garotte repositioned? Clearly there was a lower strangulation than where the garotte ended up.

    If it was a slip knot why did they cut it off, why not slip the knot and remove the cord whole? If it was a stop knot and the lower strangulation caused unconsciousness then the final application had more to do with tying the body to the handle, a kind of symbolic identification. Lots of "two's" here; twin doll, two cords, two raised arms, two men watching over, etc. "Wherever we go, whatever we do, we're gonna go through it twogether."
     
  16. SisterSocks

    SisterSocks What a wild and crazy trip its been

    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Good post Brother moon =)
     
  17. Maxi

    Maxi Guest

    It's standard procedure to cut off the ligature to preserved the knot.
     
  18. BrotherMoon

    BrotherMoon Former Member

    Messages:
    753
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ya, that makes sense when you have to stick a cutting utensil down into a half inch furrow. I don't think slipping a slip knot without pulling the cord all the way out would affect the knot do you? I know I've seen pics of the cut cord, that might determine if it's slip or not. There was 4" of tail at the loop, plenty of length to tie a stop knot or slip knot. Even if it was a slip knot it might not have been used as a garotte. But if it was a stop knot then it wasn't a garotte and the handle would have some other purpose than an aid for pulling. This is no small matter.
     
  19. Maxi

    Maxi Guest

    I think the cut in the ligature is made downwards, with something like a razor blade. Anyway, I know marking the cord and cutting it off the victim is the way it's supposed to be done.

    The reason for the paintbrush attached to the cord puzzles me very much. Schiller said it was used as a handle to pull the cord tight from behind. I don't know why the killer would need to do that with such a little victim. It has to have some other significance, IMO. Was the killer trying to distance him/herself from the act of strangulation?
     
  20. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

    Messages:
    3,053
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0

    That's correct. There appears to have been TWO strangulations, and perhaps TWO different ropes used.

    The top ligature on the neck is obvious because the 1/4" nylon cord is still imbedded deep into the skin, leaving a deep circumferential furrow completely around the neck.

    The bottom ligature on the neck is not as obvious because whatever caused the circumferential abrasion and petechials, and the white blanching just under the abrasion and petechials, has been removed. This bottom injury seems to have been caused by a thicker rope than the 1/4" cord on the top injury. My guess is the bottom injury was caused by a 1/2" rope -- the kind found in John Andrew's room.

    Here's pictures of the two marks: http://www.zyberzoom.com/JonBenet.html

    In support of this theory, please take note of the mysterious and unexplained 1 1/2" by 3/4" triangular mark on the left front of JonBenet's neck. It slopes at an angle up and to the right. The triangular mark is immediately above the white blanched circumferential mark denoting where the thicker rope had been located around the neck. That's where the bulky knot of the 1/2" rope ligature was likely tied, leaving the triangular abrasion. The tail end of the rope ligature then went upward on the left side of JonBenet's face, forcing JonBenet's face to the right -- the position of her face when found.

    It suggests that JonBenet had been somehow hanged using a 1/2" thick rope, and the 1/4" cord found on her neck had been used for another purpose -- probably EA.

    Just my opinion.

    BlueCrab
     
  21. Toth

    Toth Inactive

    Messages:
    968
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think it more likely that the killer wanted to have precise control over the application of force, so as to make the process far more long-lasting than the few minutes that a manual strangulation would be. No one, no matter how low his grip strength is, needs a handle on the ligature to strangle a six year old girl.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice