Ramesy's Damed if they do, Damed if they don't, or is there more than meets the eye?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Nedthan Johns, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    Anyone catch CNN last night? Mark Klaas was asked his view on this case and he couldn’t have said it better, although I don’t have the exact wording, he said that parents in child murder cases like himself, Walsh and the Smarts learn to put themselves LAST and their children FIRST and this wasn’t done by the Ramsey’s. That he knew as a parent of a murdered child he would be interrogated for hours but he did what it took to cooperate. That wasn’t done in this case. He didn’t feel Mark Karr had anything to do with this crime. I tried to search for his exact words but couldn’t find it. I found a similar interview with him from MSNBC quoted below:

    That doesn’t appear to have happened in the Ramsey case.
    No, that never happened in this case, and it’s always been a problem to me. And I understand [John] Ramsey’s situation, and only wish he’d been more cooperative up front so that all of us, including law enforcement, could have gotten past looking at him and his wife. Because quite frankly, if you look at the evidence made available to the public, as well as the conduct of the parents, i.e. refusing in most respects to cooperate with the cops, not give independent interviews with law enforcement, not take polygraphs, to hire a PR firm to handle your image, it seems self-serving. It doesn’t seem to me that that helps JonBenet, or it doesn’t help find who killed JonBenet.
    Again weather or not John Mark Karr is guilty or not of committing this crime, I concur with Klaas. The Ramsey’s did not do what they needed to do to take them off the investigators suspect list. And if Karr IS responsible then look at all the years he was able to prey on other children.
     
  2. guppy

    guppy Not A Borg

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    The Ramseys daughter was dead. That would be the distinction between this case and the others.

    After ten years, I do realize it is a waste of time to point this out.
     
  3. wenchie

    wenchie Former Member

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    And why do you think John Ramsey did that?

    Because he knew that if he had, the COULDN'T and WOULDN'T have been able to "move past him".

    The most telling things are that John and Patsy REFUSED to be interviewed separately. Why? Because one of them might not keep their story straight if they were separated.

    They also asked for a WRITTEN list of questions. What good would that be to LE? The Ramseys could have and would have gotten their attorneys to go over EVERY QUESTION with them and edit their answers.
     
  4. Seeker

    Seeker Former Member

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    What? So you mean Polly Klaas wasn't found dead and her father under suspicion for the crime when he sat for hours of interrogation and took a polygraph? :doh:

    I fail to see how that is different than the Ramsey case.

    Both girls bodies found and both fathers under suspicion, but only Marc Klass was independantly interrogated for hours and took a polygraph to help LE move past him as a suspect.

    He didn't lawyer up or hire a PR firm before talking with the cops or taking the polygraph....

    He also didn't try to flee the state within 30 minutes of her body being found like John Ramsey did.

    RiverRat found an interesting article on how JR is again contemplating fleeing...only this time it's the entire country!
    The guy is such a lying hypocrite it makes my stomach churn.
    Now he's worried about his safety...from the MEDIA!
    Funny he wasn't worried about it when he appeared on CNN and various talk shows...or when he was running for office and pimping himself out to whoever would put his mug and words on tv, or in print all while standing on his daughter's grave and using her as his "platform"....

    And people think Karr is sick... :rolleyes:
     
  5. guppy

    guppy Not A Borg

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    > I fail to see how that is different than the Ramsey case.

    I know.
     
  6. Betsy

    Betsy New Member

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    True, but the absolute rage and utter helplessness that they should have felt still applies in this case, and that was not shown to the public. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    I can't wrap my mind around the fact that these people killed their daughter in the way that she was killed...however, their behavior in many, many ways seems so abnormal that I can't dismiss their involvement.

    And to be fair, I don't feel that either one "murdered" their daughter. I feel that IF they were involved, that it was truly an accident. It's the appearance of a cover-up after the fact that screams guilt to me.
     
  7. Class-z

    Class-z Do Something, Lead, follow or get out of the way.

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    As an innocent parent, you cooperate to the fullest, make yourself available to LE and you become "TRNASPARENT" so they can rule you out and get past you. The Ramsey's NEVER did this.
     
  8. SuperDave

    SuperDave Active Member

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    Didn't even try.
     
  9. PaperDoll

    PaperDoll When I'm Silent, I make the most sense

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    I agree...They acted guilty... They acted like they wanted to cover their ass first before anything else.. where is the love and respect for their murdered daughter in that? I don't see it..
     
  10. Wudge

    Wudge New Member

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    Marc Klaas has no expertise in evidence assessment and weighting, and he consistently works off false premises and arrives at fallacious conclusions. In his mind, the Ramsey's lawyering-up is evidence. That's about as bad as it gets.
     
  11. sejay3911

    sejay3911 New Member

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    Frankly, I am sick of the media putting up Mark Klass as some sort of expert and I'm sick of all the rumor and inuendo about the Ramsey's and the way they acted.

    I feel like they acted like distraught parents and helped law eforcement in any way possible, but they got frustrated with LEA that they were spending way too much time with them and not out hunting the sadistic killer of their daughter. I would act the SAME way!!

    I don't think John Karr is the killer, but I do believe it was an intruder. For almost a year, I suspected that it was one of the Ramsey's including Burke. I am ashamed of myself for thinking that way now.
     
  12. LaMer

    LaMer New Member

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    Talking initially, why do you think they couldn't and wouldn't have been able to "move past him"? I ask because so many say, "if he/they" had cooperated with LE right from the getgo, they might not have been under the umbrella of suspicion.
     
  13. calus_3

    calus_3 Former Member

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    I personally do not care for Mark Klass....I do feel very sorry for him but I heard him on the news and he was spouting off his opinion based on his experience about how this guy couldn't be the killer. All before he knew any of the evidence against Karr. This is a shark frenzy folks to tear Karr down and there isn't even any meat in the tank.

    As for the Ramseys, I couldn't give a damn about any of them except for Burke (assuming he didn't do it). Patsy and John have absolutely NO ONE TO BLAME BUT THEMSELVES for the predicament they found themselves in. Yes, if they had cooperated, they could have faced some additional scrutiny. In lawyering up and flying away almost from day one, they caused this themselves. Had they cooperated and not set conditions for when and where interviews were to be done, etc. the public would have eventually backed them.

    As it was, they brought suspicion upon themselves and kept it firmly held there.

    Cal
     
  14. PaperDoll

    PaperDoll When I'm Silent, I make the most sense

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    We can turn it around and be just as sick of hearing about an intruder as well..
     
  15. islanders

    islanders New Member

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    I’m astonished to hear this coming from Mark Klaas. Usually these kind of base accusations against the victim’s family are promoted by the perps of the crime or those who support the perps. of the crime.

    These is no way Mark Klaas would have been charged with the crime of killing his daughter, while the Ram’s had to defend themselves against an overzealous investigation against them from the start.

    This is all I have to say on the matter.
     
  16. kcksum

    kcksum Former Member

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    doesn't anyone remember how everyone just knew the Elizabeth Smarts family was guilty because they had a pr person and because the Dad had a lawyer and so forth. Don't you remember all the rumors about how the DAD had to be lying and was very feminine and was gay and so forth. How no one could have come in from the outside and taken her without the parents noticing.The only difference is Elizabeth was found alive and thank God could point to her abductor.
    Patsy and John were in the same situation but no one has ever come forward.
    I myself can't understand why Mark Klass keeps interjecting himself into this case. He was the father of a daughter who was abducted and murdered.JBR was found murdered in her home. Polly was found weeks after the abduction, there was time to close loose ends with the family and any leads......there were also two other little girls present when she was taken who knew that man wasn't her dad..... I promise, Klaas was NEVER under the same umbrella of suspision as the Ramsey's......two completely different cases in my opinion. The only similarity is that both children died.
    The Ramseys knew their Daughter was dead within hours.....Mark Klaas was in a race to find a possibly alive child. HIs level of urgency to maybe find a child that was alive and was still in danger was higher, he also had the knowledge that they had a suspect, the man who walked in and was seen taking her at knife point.....they had a lead.

    I don't think hiring an attorney the day police find your daughter murdered in your basement is a bad thing, I think its smart. Maybe the hired the attorney to field all of the calls and arrange everything. Who knows, but it doesn't mean they were trying to cover things up.

    I also understand there was a pissing match between the police and the Rams over the body. My husband says he would have been the same way...and it has since been pointed out by law enforcement that they never should have held JBR's body as a ransom to get them to come in.I would have wanted to bury my baby as well, put her to rest, and then get to the business of finding out what freak did this. That was their daughter and they should have had access to bury her when they wanted. I would have had a bad taste in my mouth for the police after that as well.

    Mark was never looked at inthe same way the Rams were so he can't say they behaved abnormal. What is abnormal for a parent who just found their 6 yr old raped and beaten to death? Is there a normal for that? Should we as a society say there has to be anormal for that? I have no idea what I would do. I might have pulled a gun out and blew my brains out just from freakin grief and shock alone. Would that have made me guilty in everyones eyes?

    People have to stop looking to toher peoples reactions to form a NORM intheir minds. After all, Polly Klass's mom has pretty much never shown her face in public again after the murder of her daughter. She doesn't want the attention and just wanted to move on. That doesn't make her any less of a person than her husband......it just makes her different than her husband which isn't abnormal.
     
  17. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    RiverRat found an interesting article on how JR is again contemplating fleeing...only this time it's the entire country!
    The guy is such a lying hypocrite it makes my stomach churn.
    Now he's worried about his safety...from the MEDIA!
    Funny he wasn't worried about it when he appeared on CNN and various talk shows...or when he was running for office and pimping himself out to whoever would put his mug and words on tv, or in print all while standing on his daughter's grave and using her as his "platform"....

    Ned: REally? Where is this? As soon as I heard him threaten that he would never talk to the media again it sent off warning bells. Now he is threatening to leave the country? Is this a fact?
     
  18. Nedthan Johns

    Nedthan Johns New Member

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    Frankly, I am sick of the media putting up Mark Klass as some sort of expert and I'm sick of all the rumor and inuendo about the Ramsey's and the way they acted.

    Ned: Mark Klass isn't paraded as an expert per say. Only for the simple fact that his daughter unfortunately assumed the same fate as the Ramsey’s. He along with Walsh and others have pointed out time and time again how the Ramsey’s thought only of themselves and not their daughter through the entire investigation. Their “expertise” comes in because they were in the EXACT same situation but behaved in a MUCH different way. Their point of view is CRUICAL because they have been in the Ramsey’s place.

    I feel like they acted like distraught parents and helped law eforcement in any way possible, but they got frustrated with LEA that they were spending way too much time with them and not out hunting the sadistic killer of their daughter. I would act the SAME way!!

    Ned: Sejay, both parents refused to cooperate. This is well documented.

    I don't think John Karr is the killer, but I do believe it was an intruder. For almost a year, I suspected that it was one of the Ramsey's including Burke. I am ashamed of myself for thinking that way now.

    Ned: Well what Karr with do is point out how utterly ridiculous the intruder theroy is once they disprove his credibility. Then we all will once again turn to the evidence in this case which points to the parents.
     
  19. Starling

    Starling New Member

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    I'll agree Klass isn't an expert but he suffered his child being brutally murdered and had to deal with cops and media - that entitles him to a point of view in my book.

    Not all parents would act the same way if their kid was murdered. But people formulated opinions about the Ramsey's as info became available over a period of years. Sitting here, thinking back to what Fleet White witnessed in the basement as John found JonBenet AND what Detective Arndt witnessed when the body was brought up - factor that in with high powered attorney's and it took on a very ugly picture.

    Is Karr guilty? I hope it is him. I want to believe a stranger did this crime but that's not the way it was presented over the years. It's not everday a sitting Govenor (Owens) looks at a tv camera and states:

    "We have no interest in meeting with Mr. John Ramsey. He does all the talking. But much of the focus on this case is really on Patsy Ramsey, and that's who we also wanted to meet with."

    And Detective Arndt witnessed who knows what regarding John. She believes there was many secrets in that household.

    I really hope they're all wrong but I just don't see how Karr can factor into this equation.
     
  20. LaMer

    LaMer New Member

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    -snippet-

    Lin Wood, John Ramsey's lawyer, said camera crews and reporters followed his client as he took his son Burke to Purdue University to start the college year. Ramsey was so upset by the ordeal that he is now considering leaving the country, the Atlanta attorney said.

    "He cannot go back to his home in Michigan because it is surrounded by the media," Wood told the Associated Press.

    "Last night, I've never heard him so angry. He is upset. He is worried about his son's physical safety … I'm not sure John Ramsey will ever speak to a member of the media after what happened to him yesterday."


    http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/08/19/karr-deport.html
     

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