Ramesy's Damed if they do, Damed if they don't, or is there more than meets the eye?

[PaperDoll]

I'm sooo sure JR was "terrified" when he went off on his own to search the basement, shut the broken window and latch it (like that would do any good), went outside (and lied and said he hadn't) and just sat there calmly and cooly looking through the mail.

Seeker :blowkiss: I was just talking to my mom about this and she mentioned the window being opened.. How far was this window opened? From what I remember it wasn't very much or even worth the trouble.. HELP!.. hehe

 

[Details]

...Instead she sites one case where the brother was falsley accused to prove some elusive point about how the Ramsey's lawyering up so quickly was a good idea.

Ask the Crowe's how 'elusive' the point is. And they're not the only ones - they got lucky enough to not be found guilty, and for the real killer to be found.

As to the 'find me another case where'.... yeah, people love that silly argument. Problem is you can use it on all kinds of things - find me another case where the parents were doing drugs and sleeping with strangers and lying about it, and they didn't have a thing to do with their daughter being killed right inside their house, with an alarm (vanDam).

They talked to the police. They just didn't go for the interrogations.

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

The police did and probably still have their suspicions of the Ramseys, not because of some kind of vendetta that started up at the get go...but because the suspicions were validly there to be found.

And I still believe such suspicions are valid until something else changes the situation clearly.

There are simply many things about this case that are odd, especially when coupled with a "stranger intruder theory".

And personally, one big question remains among others when it comes to the Ramsey stories...did the parents as they say carry a sleeping JonBenet straight into the house and into bed and nothing else...or did JonBenet carry presents into the house quite awake, as Burke stated?

 

[Seeker]

Hi PaperDoll, I don't think it would matter how far open it was, the mere fact that John NEVER reported that he'd found a BROKEN and open window when they thought *cough* that JonBenet had been kidnapped and that the kidnapper might still be IN THE HOUSE is what set off alarm bells for me.

I have to laugh at the comments about the BPD looking at the family so soon. As if John Ramsey telling Fmr Det Arndt that "this was an inside job" didn't promote that line of thinking to begin with.

Oh, but it's all the BPD's fault that the Rams look guilty right? It's not like the Rams did anything to promote or later substantiate those ideas for the BPD and the public at large.

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

I have to laugh at the comments about the BPD looking at the family so soon. As if John Ramsey telling Fmr Det Arndt that "this was an inside job" didn't promote that line of thinking to begin with.

That's a very telling statement from him indeed.

 

[BirdieBoo]

I am still on the fence about who did it, but as far as the BPD, they lost credibility with me when they let all the friends and neighbors go tromping around in the crime scene....shoddy police work to say the least.

Maybe if that hadn't happened in the first place I would be more inclined to go a long with what the BPD thinks, but its quite obvious from the way they botched this investigation from the very beginning that there clearly were some members of the BPD who weren't thinking.

 

[Seeker]

Ask the Crowe's how 'elusive' the point is. And they're not the only ones - they got lucky enough to not be found guilty, and for the real killer to be found.

As to the 'find me another case where'.... yeah, people love that silly argument. Problem is you can use it on all kinds of things - find me another case where the parents were doing drugs and sleeping with strangers and lying about it, and they didn't have a thing to do with their daughter being killed right inside their house, with an alarm (vanDam).

They talked to the police. They just didn't go for the interrogations.

I never said that the Rams getting a lawyer wasn't a good idea or pointed to possible guilt. Their actions, their lack of honesty, their deliberate stalling is what makes them look guilty.

Oh and as for that bs you asked for? Ask Shasta Groening (sp) if that didn't happen to her family. I seem to remember her family (not her dad) being druggies, her mother sleeping around with one bf or the other, and her older brother was a druggie too. Come to think of it her family wasn't guilty of her abduction or Dylan's murder either. Whoops! Looks like I found one for you...if her family members (and her mom's current bf) hadn't been killed I'd be willing to bet they'd have lied to police initially too.
BTW Danielle vanDam was NOT killed INSIDE her home. You do know the Rams had an alarm too right? One that they didn't even set, not one like the vanDams that only beeped when a door or window was left open. Unlike the Ramsey's who had a REAL alarm with a very loud bell/siren.

Details, I also want to say that I admire your passion for wanting to prove the Ramsey's innocent, I just don't share your belief.

 

[PaperDoll]

Hi PaperDoll, I don't think it would matter how far open it was, the mere fact that John NEVER reported that he'd found a BROKEN and open window when they thought *cough* that JonBenet had been kidnapped and that the kidnapper might still be IN THE HOUSE is what set off alarm bells for me.

I have to laugh at the comments about the BPD looking at the family so soon. As if John Ramsey telling Fmr Det Arndt that "this was an inside job" didn't promote that line of thinking to begin with.

Oh, but it's all the BPD's fault that the Rams look guilty right? It's not like the Rams did anything to promote or later substantiate those ideas for the BPD and the public at large.

Thanks Seeker...

 

[Peter Hamilton]

well,I was gonna say something here but Ned seemed to have said it for me--great posts Ned,and I love your comment about Ramsey hightailing it to Thailand--that would be too funny

 

[Nedthan Johns]

The Ramsey's have absolutely no special information the police need to find the real killer - they've told what they know.


NEd: As you know this is an ONGOING investigation. Therefore the Ramsey's should cooperate as LONG AS IT TAKES. It's not a 20 questions and then they are done. This was not done

 

[Details]

Details, I also want to say that I admire your passion for wanting to prove the Ramsey's innocent, I just don't share your belief.

Don't want to prove them innocent - just don't share the belief that the evidence so far is near enough to show guilt even below beyond a reasonable doubt; nor that it is impossible for it to have been an intruder. But it could have been them, it could have been Karr, it could be someone else. But I need much better facts before I'm willing to go with any of them. Karr is looking good, he's a pervert, interested in the right kinds of things to bring JBR to his notice, and seems like there's a little trace of SBTC running through his life - but more info is needed.

And if the Ramsey's are innocent, they've endured a horror they never earned (I don't agree at all that their behavior with the police was the problem).

 

[Details]

The Ramsey's have absolutely no special information the police need to find the real killer - they've told what they know.


NEd: As you know this is an ONGOING investigation. Therefore the Ramsey's should cooperate as LONG AS IT TAKES. It's not a 20 questions and then they are done. This was not done

It's done. The police are still looking for more evidence, more info, but not from the Ramsey's - they can't solve the murder for the police. There is no other cooperation requested, needed. What do you imagine (again, for the case we are talking about where it wasn't one of the Ramseys that did it) that the Ramsey's are hiding - what secret information do the police have yet to ask for? Nope - nothing - they're done. 10 years, they're long since done.

 

[aussiesheila]

Frankly, I am sick of the media putting up Mark Klass as some sort of expert and I'm sick of all the rumor and inuendo about the Ramsey's and the way they acted.

I feel like they acted like distraught parents and helped law eforcement in any way possible, but they got frustrated with LEA that they were spending way too much time with them and not out hunting the sadistic killer of their daughter. I would act the SAME way!!

I don't think John Karr is the killer, but I do believe it was an intruder.

Yours is a voice in the wilderness sejay3911, and I concur with what you have said.
ETA: reading on I see there are one or two others. Good for them.

 

[aussiesheila]

Isn't that because FW didn't turn the light on, and John Ramsey did?

Thanks julianne. Isn't it also possible that FW is lying? (not about the light, but about the body not being there)

 

[Peter Hamilton]

The biggest mistake in this whole investigation was not arresting the Ramseys immediately after the body was found--police knew that John secured all the doors,and there was no evidence of any intruder breaking in--that's probable cause--you arrest them,then separate them,try to get them to talk,see if their stories match--but it didn't happen thanks to the incompetency of the BPD

 

[aussiesheila]

I'm still wondering why the Ramseys denied the police access to the phone records.

I scratch my head at that one.

I do not believe this to be correct. What is the source for this claim SleuthingSleuth?

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Steve Thomas goes into detail about it in his book.

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

I do not believe this to be correct. What is the source for this claim SleuthingSleuth?

Well, I was talking to someone else, and what I said there appears to be inaccurate perhaps.

I was told instead that it was the DA that was uninterested in the phone records and would not get a warrant for them...however, when the police were able to look at the cell phone records of the Ramsey's they'd been cleared off, and the police knew they hadn't been that way before since some officers had used the cell phones themselves.

As for the home phone records...haven't found any info about those.

I've been interested in whether the phone records had been checked or not...but has been difficult in trying to find out much about the matter.

 

[TexMex]

Well, I was talking to someone else, and what I said there appears to be inaccurate perhaps.

I was told instead that it was the DA that was uninterested in the phone records and would not get a warrant for them...however, when the police were able to look at the cell phone records of the Ramsey's they'd been cleared off, and the police knew they hadn't been that way before since some officers had used the cell phones themselves.

As for the home phone records...haven't found any info about those.

I've been interested in whether the phone records had been checked or not...but has been difficult in trying to find out much about the matter.

Can't police get a supoena for any phone records they want, cell or otherwise? The Ramsey's would have no control over that.......

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

Can't police get a supoena for any phone records they want, cell or otherwise? The Ramsey's would have no control over that.......

Well, the person I talked to here corrected me in saying that it wasn't the Ramsey's who controlled the access per se, but the DA...if the DA refuses to get a warrant for the records, the police can't touch them, I suppose.

Apparently they did get to check the cell phone records (by then blanked out)...but I don't know if they ever got to check the home phone records.