Random questions...

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by edpower, May 22, 2020 at 5:43 PM.

  1. edpower

    edpower New Member

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    Ok, so the more I read and listen to, the more I realize no one really knows much for real at this point. Like we all, myself included, and all the specials seem to grab what backs us up, but most people who disagree just explain why that's not true, and everyone reading this probably thinking "Yes. The other side does do that". :)

    That said, there is more info here then most places.

    I was always a RDI guy until last year, which then started me down the rabbit hole to find out what I thought I know vs what is true.

    So, I thought I'd throw out random questions I have, and see what's come up with here.

    Ssssoooo...

    Questions:

    1. How much pineapple was found during autopsy?

    2. I read/heard the pineapple was an exact match for what was in the bowl (fresh with rind), that it was canned, and also that it's possible it was fruit salad. Which is true? It seems like when I read what seems to be the autopsy, it seems to just say a pineapple-like fruit substance.

    3. Were there figerprints on the spoon? I know there were on the bowl, but I see in some places there were prints on the spoon, and it others that no prints were found on the spoon.

    4. What's your opinions on the Annie Muss chats?

    Anyway, let me know what you've seen, and from where you heard/read it if you remember. Thanks!
     


  2. edpower

    edpower New Member

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    5. What, if any, would be the effect of the head injury JBR received on her digestion? Especially, if it happened right as she was digesting it?

    Thanks.
     
  3. edpower

    edpower New Member

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    Question 1, 3, and 5 are the ones I'm most interested in.
     
  4. Swirlz

    Swirlz Well-Known Member

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    1. A small amount; like she'd eaten a small piece.
    2. The pineapple in JBR's digestive tract matched the fresh cut pineapple that was in a bowl on the R's kitchen table.
    3. I'm not aware of any prints having been found on the spoon.
    4. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with Annie Muss.
    5. This is an interesting question and I don't have an answer.
     
  5. angelina1

    angelina1 Member

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    Regarding Annie Muss posts and answers - I personally do not believe it
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020 at 8:45 AM
  6. Swirlz

    Swirlz Well-Known Member

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    Who is Annie Muss?
     
  7. Rain on my Parade

    Rain on my Parade Active Member

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    edpower,
    According to Paula Woodward ... a forensic coroner consulted in the case stated that the food would have been in the stomach/intestine within 30 minutes, but digestion of the food would have stopped if she were traumatized by a stun gun or a blow to the head.
    Also, in late December 1997 (10 months after JB autopsy) the BPD received a report from experts stating that grapes, grape skins, and cherries had been found with pineapple in JB body. These fruits were typical of fruit cocktail but the pineapple did match down to the rind with fresh pineapple found in the kitchen.
     
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  8. Rain on my Parade

    Rain on my Parade Active Member

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    This is interesting:
    upload_2020-5-25_12-54-37.png
     
  9. Tobiano8th

    Tobiano8th Well-Known Member

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    googling Annie Muss constituted 90 seconds of my life i will never get back.

    just another mentally disturbed or fictitious person claiming credit for JBR murder or suggesting they know all about the crime..... the poster's paranoid schizophrenia was kicking in as he posted (he shared that info himself)

    i think the count of people who claim to have done this crime or have been fingered by people is about 8 now........ they all can't have done it. and i have a very hard time believing some sex obsessed male pedophile wrote that ransom note (there was one candidate other than PR who was also a journalism major, but he seemed like a classic non-starter too)
     
  10. Tobiano8th

    Tobiano8th Well-Known Member

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    is the ramsey house in boulder still there?... is it a minor tourist attraction?

    OJ and paul bernardo houses are gone. maybe even the addresses. not sure about nicole's place. i think the townhouse is still there.
     
  11. edpower

    edpower New Member

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    Thanks for all the responses!

    Thanks. Do you know where you got the info on how much pineapple there was?

    Wow. That is interesting. Where is that from? Does it mean she ate other fruit earlier in the night, and the matching pineapple later?

    So some more questions:

    1. Does anyone know if it is usual that there are no prints on the spoon? Like, are they hard to get prints off of because of how we wrap our hands around them? I have no idea why I think anyone would know that. :D I guess maybe I'm hoping someone is a cop on here. ;)

    2. Possible stupid question, but what the heck...I keep reading the pineapple was the same "down to the rind". Does that mean she eat the pineapple chunk/s INCLUDING the rinds?

    3. Does anyone know if when Burke hit Jonbenet with the golf club, were there any threats to them that'd he'd be taken away from them? Was it investigated by any state agencies? Or was it just treated like a typical kids/accident thing?

    4. With Burke's alleged scatological issues:

    * Him smearing feces on the wall of a bathroom during his Mom's first run in with cancer.
    * The "grapefruit sized" poop on JBR's bed.
    * Burke smearing feces on JBR's box of candy.

    My understanding is the first 2 where stated by the housekeeper. Is she the only one who has mentioned these incidents? Were they officially mentioned to the police by her (or anyone else)?

    I've heard the box of candy was a box of Christmas candy found in Jonbenet's room, and also read that it was a box of Valentine's chocolate found earlier in the year. I've also read this "box of chocolate" thing was only mentioned in one book, and not sourced. I've also read when asked the police have no recollection on this. How does this match what you've heard about this alleged incident?

    5. In 1996, could someone from the security company be able to tell things like if the house alarm was off?

    6. In 1996, could someone tell by looking at it if the alarm was only linked to the first floor or not?

    I believe the security system was from a place in Boulder called "Safe Systems":

    http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-alarm-system.htm

    Thanks again.
     
  12. Swirlz

    Swirlz Well-Known Member

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    From the autopsy report:

    The stomach contains a small amount (8-11cc) of viscous to green to tan colored thick mucous material without particulate matter identified.
     
  13. Rain on my Parade

    Rain on my Parade Active Member

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    Please scroll down to item #62 of the following quote:

     
  14. Cottonstar

    Cottonstar Well-Known Member

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    These are factual allegations made by Team Ramsey. They are not actual facts of the case.
     
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  15. Rain on my Parade

    Rain on my Parade Active Member

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    Cottonstar,
    In keeping with an open mind let’s review.
    From the autopsy report:
    The stomach contains a small amount (8-10 cc) of viscous to green to tan colored thick mucous material without particulate matter identified. [note: 8-10 cc is approximately two teaspoons] The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple. The large intestine contains soft green fecal material.

    In her book We Have Your Daughter, PW states:
    10 months after her autopsy, experts produced a report indicating grapes, grape skins and cherries along with pineapple were found.
    She identifies her source as BPD Reports #1-1348 and 1-1349. Specifically:
    "Another item besides pineapple was cherries." (BPD Report #1-1348.) In that same report: "Another item besides pineapple was grapes." (BPD Report #1-1348.) Another report expands on the grapes, saying "grapes including skin and pulp."(BPD Report #1-1349.)
    It is somewhat interesting, in my view, that Woodward only quotes partial phrases here, a notable change from her usual approach of quoting large chunks or paragraphs of text. Based on the quotes, it's not clear that they definitively found cherries and grapes, but that is what Woodward says, and I don't think we can dispute her claim without having some other authoritative source.
    In a later interview, Woodward clarified that this testing was conducted by "two experts at the University of Colorado", and that their report was issued in January of 1998.

    The author of the police reports consulted by PW was Detective Carey Weinheimer. The reports have never been made public.
    Steve Thomas said in a deposition that it was a "series of reports concerning the pineapple": Detective Weinheimer received that assignment during the course of the investigation. Employed the help of I think a biological--or a botanist or somebody of some expertise at the University of Colorado, Boulder. The name Dr. Bock completed a series of reports concerning the pineapple.

    ST gives a few details of Weinheimer's findings:
    I think they were able to determine -- well, in fact, I know that fellow Officer Weinheimer disclosed to us that they were able to characterize it as a fresh pineapple rather than a canned pineapple. And: it was a fresh pineapple consistent -- fresh pineapple with a rind. [...] and let me clarify that, pineapple consistent down to the rind with pineapple found in the bowl in the kitchen. Though he admits he can't remember much of the "content of the reports", he does not mention grapes or cherries.

    University of Colorado analysis (Dr Bock and Dr Norris)
    In their 2015 book Forensic Plant Science Dr Jane Bock and David Norris from the University of Colorado reveal that they were the "two experts" consulted on the JB case. They note: Although her stomach contained no food, intestinal contents verified that she had eaten pineapple the night before. They also do not mention the grapes and cherries.
    Conclusions on the Stomach Contents
    The lack of any other food in the stomach indicates the last thing Jonbenet ate before her death was pineapple (and possibly grapes and cherries). The notion that JB ate the pineapple before dinner at the Whites' house is not supported by the evidence.

    Though PW is an extremely biased source, I see no compelling reason to disbelieve her claims about "grapes and cherries" being found. Nor would I disbelieve the claim that the pineapple was fresh and traced to the R’s bowl. All these claims seem to derive from Weinheimer's reports. There is a danger, of course, with drawing conclusions from second-hand accounts of a police report that is itself based on other scientific reports. But we must work with what we have, and I am not prepared to accuse PW or ST, or WS of fabricating evidence.

    Hopefully someday those reports are made public, or one of the people involved comes forward to clarify things.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020 at 9:32 PM
  16. Tobiano8th

    Tobiano8th Well-Known Member

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    honestly, i consider anything the R's investigators/lawyers come up with to be fundamentally question and meant to confuse the investigation and the public

    if the R's really wanted the crime solved, they could have cooperated with police very early.... honestly, i would think most people would be dumbfounded their daughter was killed in their house while they slept, not hiring lawyers and PR firms and arranging transportation elsewhere for later that day. those actions suggest they knew what happened.
     
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  17. Rain on my Parade

    Rain on my Parade Active Member

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    The house has been renumbered to 749 15th St.
    The house is still there although extremely hard to find if your new to Boulder. I was there last year and stopped and asked a young man walking down the street about it’s location. He didn’t have a clue but was excited as he told me he had just watched the golden State killer on tv and was into that sort of thing. He made a phone call and low and behold after going up and down 15th we ran into him again and he pointed out the house. It is not a well known tourist trap IMO from visiting with other Boulderites. So I wouldn’t say this is even a minor tourist attraction if the locals don’t know about it.
    The neighborhood is not upscale. The street in very narrow and your next door neighbors are on top of you. The home sits very close to the road and it badly overgrown with vegetation! We drove down the alley as well and most of the fences were dilapidated. I personally would not consider this street millionaire hill. We also drove on the other side of Baseline Road And I would say the homes there were definitely millionaires!
    It was definitely sad and eerie!
     
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  18. edpower

    edpower New Member

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    Again, with this diagram...

    It says says there's pineapple both in the fully digested food with the green fecal, and then there's the small amount undigested.

    Per a commenter in this post:

    JBR, the Pineapple, & Benzos: Wendy Murphy on Tricia's True Crime Radio 7/28

    ...the green feces is from the crab she ate at the Whites party.

    Either way though, wouldn't this mean she had pineapple twice in that night? Once early enough to be fully digested and once late enough it wasn't digested when she was murdered?

    So, I guess those are my next 2 questions:

    * How accurate is the diagram in response #8 above?

    * Does the diagram then mean she had had pineapple twice in that night? Once early enough to be fully digested and once late enough it wasn't digested when she was murdered?
     
  19. edpower

    edpower New Member

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    Y'know what? Let's re-organize. (Yes. I DO have a lot of free-time in quarantine. :D )
    ___________________________________________________

    Category 1: Pineapple:

    A. How much pineapple was found during autopsy?

    Seems like the answer is (from response 12):

    "From the autopsy report:

    The stomach contains a small amount (8-11cc) of viscous to green to tan colored thick mucous material without particulate matter identified."

    But per the diagram in response 8, says there's pineapple both in the fully digested food with the green fecal, and then there's the small amount undigested.

    Per a commenter in this post:

    JBR, the Pineapple, & Benzos: Wendy Murphy on Tricia's True Crime Radio 7/28

    ...the green feces is from the crab she ate at the White's party.

    Either way though, wouldn't this mean she had pineapple twice in that night? Once early enough to be fully digested and once late enough it wasn't digested when she was murdered?

    So, I guess these are my next questions:

    B. How accurate is the diagram in response #8 above?

    C. Does the diagram then mean she had had pineapple twice in that night? Once early enough to be fully digested and once late enough it wasn't digested when she was murdered?

    D. I read/heard the pineapple was an exact match for what was in the bowl (fresh with rind), that it was canned, and also that it's possible it was fruit salad. Which is true? It seems like when I read what seems to be the autopsy, it seems to just say a pineapple-like fruit substance.

    Again, it seems like the undigested pineapple was an exact match even to the rind, but the digested portion may have been part of a fruit cocktail/salad. Again, depends on how true the response 8 diagram is.

    Although this leads me to....

    E. Possible stupid question, but what the heck...I keep reading the pineapple was the same "down to the rind". Does that mean she ate the pineapple chunk/s INCLUDING the rind?
    ___________________________________________________


    Category 2: The spoon:

    A. Were there fingerprints on the spoon? I know there were on the bowl, but I see in some places there were prints on the spoon, and it others that no prints were found on the spoon.

    It seems like the answer is there are no prints on the spoon. Which leads me to...

    B. Does anyone know if it is usual that there are no prints on the spoon? Like, are they hard to get prints off of because of how we wrap our hands around them? I have no idea why I think anyone would know that. :D I guess maybe I'm hoping someone is a cop on here. ;)

    ___________________________________________________


    Category 3: Burke:

    A. Does anyone know if when Burke hit Jonbenet with the golf club, were there any threats to them that'd he'd be taken away from them? Was it investigated by any state agencies? Or was it just treated like a typical kids/accident thing?

    B. With Burke's alleged scatological issues:

    * Him smearing feces on the wall of a bathroom during his Mom's first run in with cancer.
    * The "grapefruit sized" poop on JBR's bed.
    * Burke smearing feces on JBR's box of candy.

    My understanding is the first 2 where stated by the housekeeper. Is she the only one who has mentioned these incidents? Were they officially mentioned to the police by her (or anyone else)?

    I've heard the box of candy was a box of Christmas candy found in Jonbenet's room, and also read that it was a box of Valentine's chocolate found earlier in the year. I've also read this "box of chocolate" thing was only mentioned in one book, and not sourced. I've also read when asked the police have no recollection on this. How does this match what you've heard about this alleged incident?
    ___________________________________________________

    Category 4: Security System:

    A. I believe the security system was from a place in Boulder called "Safe Systems":

    http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-alarm-system.htm

    Can anyone confirm this? (again, I have no idea how, but what the heck?)


    B. In 1996, could someone from the security company/police/fire department be able to tell things like if the house alarm was off?

    C. In 1996, could someone tell by looking at it if the alarm was only linked to the first floor or not?

    Misc:

    A. What's your opinions on the Annie Muss chats?

    Seems like the answer is they are full of crap. I agree, but I thought they were interesting.
     

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