Ransom note...have you ever considered...

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by calus_3, May 20, 2005.

  1. calus_3

    calus_3 Former Member

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    that John and Patsy (or even just one of them) concocted it--and the entire crime scene for that matter--intentionally so that each piece of evidence would confuse the interpreter and point everywhere and nowhere at the same time? Throw in the kitchen sink so to speak so that nothing made any sense. Throw in the bonus amount to potentially make it a work related or 'inside' job--in case they needed to sacrifice a coworker? Throw in the movie references intentionally to make the writer seem young---since John floated the young theory in an interview, that peaked my curiocity. I know many times when I try to leave a hint for someone about something and they just miss it, I will reiterate all or portions of it to try to help them make the connections. If making it seem like a young person was somehow and someway important to John and/or Patsy's cover up--to deflect suspicion from themselves via their master plan--and the police glossed over it, hence the need to make a big point about it in hopes the police would pick up and run with it. It just seemed to me that the entire note was so 'concocted' rather than written as part of some pre-conceived master plan to kidnap JBR. I think the note was possibly dictated by John to Patsy or writen entirely by Patsy herself and they put in pieces that could logically lead investigators down various avenues. Avenues that, if the police began following, the Ramsey's could get on the bandwagon with and say "I see you police are thinking that it could be a co-worker,....I have always thought that was the most likely scenario myself". Or "I always thought it was the boarder across the street".

    Some point to the SBTC as a sign that a boarder or neighbor did it because he once had a shirt that said SBTC. Who is to say that Patsy or John didn't see this individual wearing the shirt previously? In the heat of the moment writing the ransom note, throw SBTC because the covetous mystery boarder would make a nice diversionary target.

    As far as the DNA that points away from seemingly everyone, who is to say that they didn't drive to the McDonalds, collect a sample from a toilet seat, and plant it under her fingernail and in her panties?

    I find the footprint especially suspect. If I were going to abduct someone and/or kill them, I would buy special shoes--using cash--in a store that is guaranteed not to have cameras so it couldn't be traced back to me. I find it odd that someone wore shoes with a big HI-TEC imprint on the bottom. That is even if the print was fresh and related to the killer to begin with. HI-TEC's are not rare, I have owned a pair on many occasions.

    Bottom line is.....Patsy Ramsey wrote the note to cover up for herself and/or someone else in the family or immediate circle of friends. When she goes, justice will finally be served in some small measure and who knows....maybe we will get a death bed confession.

    Cal
     
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  3. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    I think you are giving the Ramseys credit for being more intelligent and subtle than they actually are.
     
  4. calus_3

    calus_3 Former Member

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    Well, IMHO, John being an executive in a company is used to thinking on his feet and putting out fires so to speak. He would be capable of making the scene and note more elaborate while Patsy probably would have had a hard time focusing. Since some of the information was pertinent to John personally, he couldn't write the note.

    I could see a scenario where Burke killed JBR and John made the decision that he wasn't going to let his first daughter, JBR, and Burke go and leave himself and his wife childless. Therefore, he couldn't really tell what happened.

    Whoever did it sure did a good job confusing everyone and the keystone cops didn't help matters either.

    I just hope that we find out what happened SOME day.

    Cal
     
  5. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    John and Patsy are intelligent people...I give them lot's of credit for getting away with murder.

    Patsy wrote the note "The Usual Suspects" style...taking references from objects and quotes from anything and everything.

    Movie references....lots of them.

    Brown paper bag....the brown paper bag in the hallway near the den.

    "If you want her to see 1997"...Patsy's Christmas letter..."Burke will see the Orthodontist in 1997"

    "You are not the only fat cat"...the "Atlanta Fat Cats"

    Patsy may try to disguise the handwriting but her use of words in the note are hers and hers alone.

    Patsy staged the crime scene without John's knowledge. She never slept at all. When John was in the shower...she began what would be the role of her life.

    The note was put away until morning just in case John woke in the middle of the night so as not to find it too early.

    This is my theory.
     
  6. Rainsong

    Rainsong Former Member

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    There is a huge difference between being intelligent and being criminally sophisticated.

    Neither John nor Patsy Ramsey had any prior criminal experience, thus they would have had to spring from novice class to master criminal in the space of a few hours.

    Rainsong
     
  7. luvbeaches

    luvbeaches New Member

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    There's always a first time for every crime, and many times it's murder. Nothing prior to that. Did Scott Peterson ever murder before he killed his wife? I could go on and on with this list.

    I don't think it was a planned murder. Things got out of hand. That sort of thing happens all the time. The only thing the Ramsey's mastered was how to "lawyer-up" in a nanoscecond.
     
  8. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    Were LHP's daughter, Tina and son in law, Mike ever checked out? I'd never heard of him before but while looking through PMPT (for something else) I found this.

    p. 81
    "After they had washed the windows, Hoffman-Pugh and her daughter started searching the house for the missing trees. She saw a closed door in the basement just past the boiler room, which she had never noriced before. She tried to open the door, but it was stuck shut, apparently from a recent painting, She pulled at it hard, and the door finally opened. Feeling around in the dark, she found a light switch on the wall to her right. [Guess it wasn't that hard to find]

    The room was full of trees, some still covered with last year's decorations, replicas of Burke's model airplanes and John Andrew's cowboy hats, boots, and red scarves. The next day the housekeeper had her older daughter Tina, her son-in-law Mike, and her husband, Merv, take all the trees upstairs and place them in their proper rooms."


    Mike and Tina or an unknown friend could have learned enough about the Ramseys, their finances and their holiday plans from LHP to give them all the info they needed, plus access to a key. Could he also fit Barnhill's description?
     
  9. Zman

    Zman Former Member

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    You cant have it both ways. If JR and PR were really so careful and mindful to stage this coverup and put such careful and time consumming thought into the ransome note. Then how could they be so dumb to leave the pineapple bowl out on the table and the wiped down flashlight right on the contertop in the kitchen? And tie JBR up in such a terrible excuse for a gerrote. I dont think these people are half as "smart and quick on their feet" as some would lead us to believe.
     
  10. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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    John Ramsey became a multi millionare by being "smart and quick on his feet".
     
  11. Rainsong

    Rainsong Former Member

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    Being smart and quick on your feet is not the same as being criminally sophisticated. Criminally sophisticated people get that way through trial and error. In other words, they practice until they 'get it right,' which is why it is important to remember neither Ramsey has a criminal background.

    Rainsong
     
  12. why_nutt

    why_nutt New Member

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    John Ramsey practiced the trappings of a criminal background when he had his affair during his first marriage. During that time, he had to become skilled in being able to deceive two people he was intimately close to, being his wife (who he fooled into thinking he still loved her) and his mistress (who he fooled into thinking he was devoted to her). Obviously, subspecialties of criminal behavior became part of his personal toolkit. He had to learn how to make items of evidence of his affair look like innocent items of ordinary life to his wife. He had to become a skilled manager of time and how to make the best use of it. He had to learn how to hide his true emotions from everyone. He had to do this while feeling shame over what he was doing, yet doing it every day, over and over and over again. This skillset practice would have served him well if he had killed JonBenet, and had to call on those skills yet again, can you agree with that?
     
  13. narlacat

    narlacat Former Member

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  14. Rainsong

    Rainsong Former Member

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    Sorry, but the two do not equate.

    Rainsong
     
  15. sissi

    sissi Former Member

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    I can't agree with this, John described his first marriage as a comfortable arrangement, two who married but didn't seem to share much in the way of devotion and love. It seems they were finished with each other, and just going through the motions of being a family before the unfortunate affair. He was not in love with Ms. Williams, he felt as though it was a fatal attraction that he was somewhat snagged into . He spoke of feeling sad about both the breakup of his first marriage, and of the relationship with the other woman.
    I am posting because of a big AH HA I felt while reading your post. It may be nothing. While Ms. Williams was never a suspect, and certainly I'm not suggesting she should have been, I wonder if someone in her life who cared deeply about her, held a grudge against John Ramsey,perhaps a brother or a son?
     
  16. Rupert

    Rupert Former Member

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    Perhaps the note was long to reinforce the kidnap distraction or maybe it was long to set up Patsy. Who knows? I just find it difficult to believe either or both of the Ramseys could come up with all that movie stuff under such emotional strain. Maybe they had a talented and trusted cel consultant in the middle of night, but I find that difficult to believe as well.

    There is more in the RN that is subtle but clever.
     
  17. Jayelles

    Jayelles New Member

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    The length of the ransom note could be a desperate attempt to throw the police off the scent. It is way over the top.

    Experts say that a real kidnapper would have written few words - "got the kid, get $1m, will call". A short, functional note which means business. This killer wasn't a kidnapper but wanted police to think he was and didn't know how to go around it. In the staging of the crime, the killer's mind was not clear enough to realise that a real ransom note would be short. In a desperate attempt to get into the part of a kidnapper, the killer waffled on and on for three pages.

    Nor do I believe that the killer wanted to shock. If he had, he'd have displayed Jonbenet's body - perhaps below the Christmas tree. Or he'd have hung her up somewhere - like a trophy. Instead, he wrapped her in a blanket and hid her in a far recess of the basement. I think this killer was personally more shocked by what he'd done than that he wanted to shock others.
     
  18. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    John called his mistress "Fatal Attraction"...the title of a MOVIE...heh heh.
     
  19. Camper

    Camper New Member

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    Could Ms. Williams have been an orphan, (lol) OR OR WHO WHO woulda been her benefactor and protector? Where is 'she' now?

    DID 'she' go on to leave more crumpled residual lovers? WHO broke off 'the' affair.

    I am sorry my brain is failing me, is Ms. Williams the one who dressed up in tiny outfits for John, I need some help with this old passenger on the train of suspects.


    .
     
  20. Rupert

    Rupert Former Member

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    Jayelles you stated:
    "The length of the ransom note could be a desperate attempt to throw the police off the scent. It is way over the top."
    - That's the first thing I would think and he/she definitely did. I agree it is way over the top, but why and how could anyone in the family write such a long note that has consistent hits on movie connections? That is what bothers me. It must have been planned.

    "Experts say that a real kidnapper would have written few words..."
    - I don't think that takes an expert to figure it out.

    "....the killer waffled on and on for three pages."
    - Perhaps it was waffling or perhaps it was setting us up for a prank.

    "Nor do I believe that the killer wanted to shock. If he had, he'd have displayed Jonbenet's body - perhaps below the Christmas tree."
    - The shock was there, hidden quietly under their noses. Again, consistent with a prank.

    If it was not an accident, then it was commited by someone with knowledge and interest in the Leopold Loeb case and others. The Leopold Loeb RN ended with "must follow our instructions to the letter". How possible is it to have a novice RN writer come up with the exact same phrase? Especially after such a horrific accident, how could either Ramsay research and come up with that phrase? The coincidences are too often for me to think that either Ramsay accidently came up with these references.

    If it wasn't an inside job, it was done by someone close who had access to the house and knew John and Patsy. I think there is another clue in the RN staring us all in the face.
     
  21. Lacy Wood

    Lacy Wood Former Member

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    The two ransom notes (Loeb-Leopold and Ramsey note) were posted by tipper in the Journalistic Ransom Note thread, post 26 (page 2) for those interested.
     

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