Raven Says . . .

[snapple]

This is a very good point and brought up a very interesting thought in my mind.

Raven saying that he believed his wife had been shot when she'd actually been stabbed is a way of separating himself from the crime. Perhaps saying that she was in her usual "bad cramps" position, (implying that she may have been menstruating), is his was of separating himself from the knowledge that Janet was pregnant. Perhaps separating himself from the motive.

IMO, I think your exactly right. I think raven was scheming in his mind ways to make people believe that he couldn't possibly be the murderer. In his own small mind he thought that by saying it was a "gunshot wound" and saying he thought she was having "cramps", he couldn't be a suspect because he didn't "know" she was stabbed and pregnant.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

Which personally I go to MY bed when I have cramps. And if they are particularly bad I lay on the floor in a ball. Not kneeling. Again, if that was the position she chose to take when having cramps, why wouldn't she do it in her own room, why the office?

Why the office? Why in the dark? Why with all of her clothes and shoes on? Not having experience with this, I would think, if you were in that much pain, you would not be fully clothed, kneeling down in the dark on the office floor.

Did raven make these comments to the ME or LE or both?

 

[ewwwinteresting]

Anyone know if Raven is right or left-handed?

Maybe someone that knows raven can pm you this answer??

 

[ewwwinteresting]

IMO, I think your exactly right. I think raven was scheming in his mind ways to make people believe that he couldn't possibly be the murderer. In his own small mind he thought that by saying it was a "gunshot wound" and saying he thought she was having "cramps", he couldn't be a suspect because he didn't "know" she was stabbed and pregnant.

I can understand IF raven killed her, why he would want to distance himself from the stabbing, pregnancy thing by saying she could possibly be on her period and was shot...but how do you answer for being home at the TOD? This fact doesn't seem to be one you can just explain away:waitasec: .

 

[snapple]

I can understand IF raven killed her, why he would want to distance himself from the stabbing, pregnancy thing by saying she could possibly be on her period and was shot...but how do you answer for being home at the TOD? This fact doesn't seem to be one you can just explain away:waitasec: .

You definately can't explain that fact away...note I did say "small" mind, maybe he just didn't think that one through...

 

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh:

...note I did say "small" mind, maybe he just didn't think that one through...

Don't you think if you are going to commit a murder, this is one of the first things you would think through? IF he is guilty of this crime, he sure missed a big item to overlook!

 

[snapple]

:laugh:
Don't you think if you are going to commit a murder, this is one of the first things you would think through? IF he is guilty of this crime, he sure missed a big item to overlook!

Yes, but IMO, I think raven thought that he could explain away any suspicion of him...he would of had to, you can't have an alibi or be someplace else when you actually commit the murder... So what could he have done to establish an alibi? He had to come up with other "things" to try to divert suspicion.

 

[LTUlegal]

You definately can't explain that fact away...note I did say "small" mind, maybe he just didn't think that one through...

I agree on both statements! "small" and he didn't think it through. I sure hope they make an arrest REAL soon. The Durham LE might have to take a plane ride to make the arrest, but hopefully they will, soon.

 

[misterallgood]

You think we could get Steve to post the entire autopsy report? I didn't see where it was mentioned on the pages he posted that she was pregnant.

I will e-mail you the page in question, but I will not post anymore of the autopsy report. I posted the minimum possible out of consideration for her family and friends. If you want me to e-mail you the whole pdf you can go to my site and use the contact form on the lower right side.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[ewwwinteresting]

I will e-mail you the page in question, but I will not post anymore of the autopsy report. I posted the minimum possible out of consideration for her family and friends. If you want me to e-mail you the whole pdf you can go to my site and use the contact form on the lower right side.

Thanks,

Steve

Oh, ok Steve, I didn't realize there was a reason for not posting all of the report. I didn't know if there was more information in it...kinda like we didn't get all of the pages of the search warrant and don't know what is on those missing pages...maybe just standard info, maybe not. I'll go to your site for the rest. Thank you.

 

[LTUlegal]

What if rooster was raven, a friend of raven's, or a family member of raven's and these facts/ideas are what raven wants people to believe? It wouldn't look good if he found his wife murdered and all he did was roll her over (from a kneeling position?) and then call 911. IMO, to look good, he would have to at least tell people he knew that he tried to save her, wouldn't he? And the running around looking for a cell phone to call 911 makes sense if you are trying to portray a confused, in shocked spouse.

The fact that the paramedics tried to revive her means, to me, that she was still warm and passed away recently. If she had been dead for 2 - 3 hours, I would think professional medical personnel would know that "hooking her up" wouldn't do any good...she would be cold.

AND the whole light thing is interesting GM! I thought of that too when I read his narrative. Why was the light out? She wasn't dressed to go to bed. She had a shirt, pants, earrings, and shoes on still! And which light was on that he could see Janet on her knees (looking like she is having cramps)? Can we say with almost 100% accurancy that someone that just committed a brutal murder would take the time to turn the light out??

AND as we mentioned before, why wouldn't raven be scared for his own life or that of his 6 month old son's? Let's say that Janet actually died at 10:25 pm (prior to raven returning home). raven returns home, kisses Kaiden, finds Janet and calls 911 at 10:58 pm. raven could have had time to save her, run around looking for a phone, etc......but, if he had time to do all of that, why wouldn't he have grabbed Kaiden and ran to the neighbor to call 911....not knowing whether this person(s) were still in the house?

I don't want to abuse the tos, but I think you're definitely on to something with the first statement.
And I've always wondered why he didn't fear for his son's life, as well as his own. I keep playing in my head how I would react to the scene...what would I do first, call 911...would I hold Kaiden as I'm running around the house to make sure the perp wasn't still there? i don't think I'd want to just leave Kaiden in his crib, I mean what if the perp was in his bedroom? Would I call someone to take Kaiden? I wouldn't want to leave Janet there by herself, especially if I thought she was just "hurt"...but if I didn't know whether or not the perp was there, I don't know that I'd want to stick around & wait to see if they tried to kill me, too. I just don't know how I'd react, I do know that I'd be a total mess! It all just seems so "off".
And the light being turned off? Come on, I don't think there's anything to that at all. I think the damn light was on the entire time. I don't think I can believe half of what it's been reported Raven has said.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

I don't want to abuse the tos, but I think you're definitely on to something with the first statement.
And I've always wondered why he didn't fear for his son's life, as well as his own. I keep playing in my head how I would react to the scene...what would I do first, call 911...would I hold Kaiden as I'm running around the house to make sure the perp wasn't still there? i don't think I'd want to just leave Kaiden in his crib, I mean what if the perp was in his bedroom? Would I call someone to take Kaiden? I wouldn't want to leave Janet there by herself, especially if I thought she was just "hurt"...but if I didn't know whether or not the perp was there, I don't know that I'd want to stick around & wait to see if they tried to kill me, too. I just don't know how I'd react, I do know that I'd be a total mess! It all just seems so "off".
And the light being turned off? Come on, I don't think there's anything to that at all. I think the damn light was on the entire time. I don't think I can believe half of what it's been reported Raven has said.

Yes, that is a good way to put it "off"! With the new info from the autopsy report, I just can't grab onto anything raven stated as the truth.

We have:

1. Kissed Kaiden goodnight
2. Found Janet on her knees
3. Turned her over
4. Tried to save her
5. Ran around trying to find cell phone to call for help
6. Reported gunshot wounds
7. Reported upstairs hurt
8. Committed suicide
9. Possible rape/burglary

Was any one of these true?

 

[mysteriew]

Don't forget that that was the position she took when she had cramps. That was the statement that really bugged me. When you have cramps, you just don't kneel down on the floor wherever you happen to be.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

I am looking at the autopsy report and a few things are not making sense here. I am probably posting things other have thought of, but I am just kinda thinking out loud trying to make some sense of this.

1) Stap wound to the neck- according to the autopsy was the lethal wound.



Right side of the neck, running back and down- the only way I can picture this is if it occurred with the suspect standing behind. A right handed person would then be cutting the victim on the right side of the neck. A suspect standing in front and holding a knife in the right hand would normally cut the left side of the victim wouldn't they? Small cut below the wound probably an extension of the wound. So it probably wasn't a stab, more like a slice. Note blood in the chest cavitity from this wound, which indicates the victim was alive at the time of the wound. How long would it take to bleed out from this type of wound? I am thinking a minute or two.

2) Chest wound


Notice no blood in the in the chest cavitity. A possible indication that the wound occurred after death or at the time of death. The pericardium was nicked, so blood would have acculmulated in the chest cavity if the heart had been beating.
So my thinking is that Janet was attacked from behind, and her throat cut. Death would not have been instant. As she lost strength, she probably went to her knees. Attacker could have then leaned over her and stabbed her in the chest from behind, to make sure that she was dead then let her fall forward (kneeling postion?) But as Steve pointed out that would have had to have been a forceful blow.
It would be a big help to find out what position she was in when the first officer or EMT arrived.

As hard as it was, I've read and reread your posts. Thank you for your insights to the autopsy report.

By the wounds, did the attacker try to slit Janet's throat or stab her in the throat? Wouldn't trying to slit Janet's throat make a longer wound? And do we think that this attacker had to know what they were doing to be able to kill her in one thrust?

 

[Bobbisangel]

I think some of it may have been premeditated. But no one, not even an experienced killer can predict everything that will happen. So, some of it was improvised on the spot. For instance the story about the position may have been a quickie when the officer asked about the position he found the body in. He may have slipped when he said kneeling, then tried to cover the slip by saying that she did that when she had cramps. Do you know of anyone who kneels down in the middle of the floor when they have cramps? I think most women head for a bed first when they have severe cramps. While that position does help the back pain with cramps, most of us would head for a couch or bed if the cramps were that bad. Not kneel down in the middle of the floor.
But when faced with the question about the body position, he said the first thing that occured to him, then had to come up with a quick cover story.

Why would she have cramps when she was pregnant? She didn't have a miscarriage according to what I've read.

 

[lauriej]

I don't want to abuse the tos, but I think you're definitely on to something with the first statement.
And I've always wondered why he didn't fear for his son's life, as well as his own. I keep playing in my head how I would react to the scene...what would I do first, call 911...would I hold Kaiden as I'm running around the house to make sure the perp wasn't still there? i don't think I'd want to just leave Kaiden in his crib, I mean what if the perp was in his bedroom? Would I call someone to take Kaiden? I wouldn't want to leave Janet there by herself, especially if I thought she was just "hurt"...but if I didn't know whether or not the perp was there, I don't know that I'd want to stick around & wait to see if they tried to kill me, too. I just don't know how I'd react, I do know that I'd be a total mess! It all just seems so "off".
And the light being turned off? Come on, I don't think there's anything to that at all. I think the damn light was on the entire time. I don't think I can believe half of what it's been reported Raven has said.

......exactly............it's so ridiculous, from what we've heard a la' raven that night........

...the light was off..........he turns it on , finds her 'kneeling', and so thinks she's having "cramps"........... ( which i don't buy in the least, how many of us women would deal would that lying DOWN, as in the bedroom, and not by kneeling in the office?)

...he then sees all of the bood.............so "rolled her over". (per raven's statement )........( and then was found by the first 911 medic "on her back".......... ) how DOES someone 'roll over' a person who was on their knees ? (and if she was dead at that time, with rigour set in, he would not have been able to 'roll her over' onto her back in a prone position..............)

...he then claims to have run all over the place , out to the durango, looking for a phone........raven ? didn't have his own phone in his pocket ? i doubt it...........this guy is tech connected at all times.............i don't believe for one second that he left his cell in the durango............no way........

...as someone earlier stated, i also believe that he made up the entire bs about running for a phone..........to give himself time to ditch the murder weapon.........and to place some of janet's blood on himself/the durango for an alibi on that front..........

...it's quite interseting, ang telling, that in his statement, he comments both on the fact that she was "kneeling" when he came in, and that the light was off/ door unlocked............

...a random murderer would never bother to turn out the light as they exited........( arm chair analyst would say :the perp doesn't want to remember what he saw, therefore, no light )
...the victim was kneeling...........shot...( armchair analyst: knew she was dead, stabbed............but the perp will never say so, thus distancing themselves from what really happened..)
...she was having cramps? .........( armchair analyst:............knew she was pregnant, and is trying to justify NOT knowing so...)
...the autopsy findings, for those who THINK raven may be the perp, and therefore see between the lines toward his guilt, is indeed sad...........

 

[Bobbisangel]

Hmmm, very interesting. Perhaps Raven's claim of Janet being in her normal "bad cramps" position was a part of it. I wonder how many times he might have repeated that statement or similar remarks. Maybe it seemed that he was pounding the idea that she was premenstrual. If he said it one too many times, it might have started to make investigators wonder.

Isn't there a difference in the color of a woman's cervix when she is pregnant?

 

[Bobbisangel]

Sitting in a dark room on her knees, fully clothed, not in pajama's yet, in the dark with her shoes on mind you.

How could a dead person kneel without falling over? I know women who get on the floor...face and chest on the floor with their butts in the air to relive back pain...the position takes the pressure off of your lower back...it really does work. But if you are dead how can you kneel on your knees? I would say that would be impossible.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

This particular area of why he said he found her on her knees is important IMHO, there's a big clue here. I'm not sure what it is yet, but I feel this is a very important statement he made.

I agree 100%. There's some reason that Raven made that statement. And it being the truth is probably at the bottom of the list of possibilities.

SES, about the door being unlocked, perhaps they had asked him but they don't specify in the brief narrative?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

After pregnancy the uterus usually doesn't go back to it's original size, but remains a little larger because it's been "stretched out" by the pregnancy. So, at the time of autopsy, her uterus may have been larger than normal, but it could have been attributed to the fact that she had given birth six months previously. In my long winded way, I'm trying to say she may have been past the six week mark, but not too far past. I think that where she was in her pregnancy is important but that may be why the information has not been released.

That's a good point. I would think that the uterus is back to size by six months but I don't know for sure. Either way, there are other changes as well. Placenta formation, growth of the baby, etc. I wonder if her uterus was indeed still enlarged, at what stage we would see visible changes due to pregnancy within the uterus. I guess this is all speculation at this point. I should be thankful for finally seeing some of the report and instead I'm frustrated that we still don't know much about some things.