Rebecca Zahau Wrongful Death/ADAM SHACKNAI FOUND RESPONSIBLE #5

[coastal]

In the KUSI interview Caitlin Rother says the jury asked about a pair of black latex gloves found in the crawl space in the stairs leading to the basement. But the list of evidence seized by LE lists a "pair of black gloves" and separately lists a "black latex glove". http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41227.pdf I'm not sure if the "pair of black gloves" seized were made of latex -- I believe a poster said in a prior thread that he thought the pair of gloves found were gardening gloves. So maybe only one black latex glove was found?

I was all ready to say "I never heard anything about a pair of latex gloves found in a crawlspace by the basement stairs", but now I'm going to have to go check out what it is I think I know...arghh! This case is going to make my head explode!���� It's a good question!

 

[elfie]

I think you may have misunderstood. I just watched the news interview with Caitlin (?) the writer again and she was talking about Greer’s abrupt and emotional ending. She said she talked to Greer afterward and he said he had 12 more pages of rebuttal.

I wasn’t able to see Greer’s rebuttal, but thanks to everyone here I feel as though we have a good sense of what a powerful moment that was in the courtroom. It was the perfect example of less is more. I think the jurors were probably anxious to begin their deliberations. I’m not worried, they already sound very conscientious from the requests we have been notified of.

Many thanks to fellow sleuths here. You are all amazing! Thanks to Tricia & Harmony2. Most of all thanks to Mr. Greer for seeing this endeavor through, and to Rebecca’s family Mary, Snowem, Xena & their mother Pari for their enduring strength and steadfast patience.

 

[clearskies1]

Wait wasn’t there a listing when it was sold?
Was the basement not listed?
Or was it a private listing?

When I google the real estate listing for 1043 Ocean Blvd the photos seem to show a staircase leading to a basement - it looks like there was a pool table and movie viewing area in the basement. Not sure I'm allowed to post the link.

 

[Lezah]

I HATE WAITING FOR A VERDICT! :gaah:

That's all.

Lezah, if you're reading, was your friend in the courtroom today and if so have any impressions or anything else of interest to report?

Hello izzyblanche

Her feedback was that it was very emotional. Apparently RZs Mum has been sobbing in the hallway as well as in the court room, when Mr Greer was trying to protect her from knowing the details of RZs death. It’s been quite upsetting apparently for people to see her, as they want to comfort her but feel a bit lost it seems.

Everyone was kind of surprised at the abrupt ending, saying it was unexpected. No other comments as it was just a short chat.

One of my trial-watchers is in contact with someone at the court and she is going to text me if they hear about a verdict, so I will try and get it on here as soon as I hear ( you guys are probably faster anyhow, but if I can I will alert you all)

An emotional day, goodnight all, and thanks for sharing such good feedback and all your opinions.



Just my opinion....






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[Lezah]

Guys, re your earlier requests for the mansion layout, this link was previously posted by some helpful bod in a much earlier thread.( it was allowed)

Please Note the storage rooms with pipework on the ceiling, which I found interesting.

Also, In AS on the stand testimony ( by Webb) he described all the rooms and layout in the guest house....but omitted one.

A storage room.

I posted earlier, as his testimony in this regard drew my attention because after he described the guest house layout, he said words to the effect of ‘... and that’s all I know about...’

When I checked the plan, he had described every room, except a large storage room.

It was odd to me, as he seemed to not want to mention it.

Here’s the link to the plan.

https://www.planomatic.com/mls14441

(It’s a generally available link found by searching google.)

Just my opinion....


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[Lezah]

Guys, re your earlier requests for the mansion layout, this link was previously posted by some helpful bod in a much earlier thread.( it was allowed)

Please Note the storage rooms with pipework on the ceiling, which I found interesting.

Also, In AS on the stand testimony ( by Webb) he described all the rooms and layout in the guest house....but omitted one.

A storage room.

I posted earlier, as his testimony in this regard drew my attention because after he described the guest house layout, he said words to the effect of ‘... and that’s all I know about...’

When I checked the plan, he had described every room, except a large storage room.

It was odd to me, as he seemed to not want to mention it.

Here’s the link to the plan.

https://www.planomatic.com/mls14441

(It’s a generally available link found by searching google.)

Just my opinion....


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Oh My gosh....and there appears to be a BASEMENT in the guest house when I looked at the larger plan layout just now!

“...and that’s all I know about...” was AS distancing himself from knowledge of this room?

The photos show a large windowless room with ‘pipework’ on the ceiling, but I cannot determine which room is which.

Just my opinion...


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[Seattle1]

Oh My gosh....and there appears to be a BASEMENT in the guest house when I looked at the larger plan layout just now!

“...and that’s all I know about...” was AS distancing himself from knowledge of this room?

The photos show a large windowless room with ‘pipework’ on the ceiling, but I cannot determine which room is which.

Just my opinion...


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Is this the basement where black glove in question was found?

 

[Carioca]

Is this the basement where black glove in question was found?

I understand the glove was found on a step leading down to the basement under the kitchen in the main house. If you look at the photo of dear RZ's body lying on the ground, in the background I believe one can see small windows at basement level (photo not in front of me so I may be mistaken). Sorry no link IMO... who ever left the glove would have been able to view her body from the stairs leading down...

 

[Mica]

Yes, exactly--what person with one iota of common sense would have stumbled upon that scene and immediately assumed she hanged herself, blindfolded and bound?

When the “seasoned professionals” arrived at the scene their first thoughts were homicide.

 

[BRRI]

(I was in the process of posting this just as the last thread closed.)


Quote from kittychi: "Every time I read "Rebecca Zahau was found hanged..." it gets to me because we know of Adam's multiple lies. For once I would like to read "Adam Shacknai states that he found Rebecca Zahau hanged..."


Thanks, Kittychi. I'm so glad you mentioned this. I said the exact same thing a few days ago. I'm amazed that for almost seven years, the media has reported that "RZ was found hanged...", when in all actuality, LE or first responders did not find her hanging at all.


AS stated he had a girl...she hanged herself...in the guesthouse...(or something to that effect). To my knowledge, AS is the only person to claim to have seen RZ hanging anywhere and there isn't another person who can honestly say that they saw RZ hanged.


Therefore, how do we know she was ever hanged? We don't know. Or, is this a case of "because Adam said so"? Whatever it is, I don't believe RZ was ever hanged. Mr. Greer did a fine job proving this during the trial. And it's insulting, to say the least, to the Zahau family every time the media states, "RZ was found hanged...".

MOO.

I’ve been thinking a lot about this too actually. Is it possible to have the ligature marks/injuries if she was “hung” from the ground while unconscious?

 

[BRRI]

It looks like there are 2 partial basements. Both with their own set of stairs. One section is storage and mechanical rooms, the other (under the guest house area?) is the theater room

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Hi there! Do you happen to have a link to the article which talks about what the jurors’ questions were? (Or even just post what the questions were?)

I have tried googling it without success.

Thank you!


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A piece of tissue with red stains found in the bathroom next to the bedroom where she supposedly hung herself

A pair of women's underwear found in the trash of the guest house

A pair of black latex gloves that was found in a crawl space under the staircase to the basement

 

[Betty P]

All of this recent information reminds me of how much a problem it can be when LE keeps so much information from the public, especially when cases go cold.

The public needs to have faith and trust in law enforcement and the criminal justice system and this is not how you do it. These institutions are accountable to the public, period. Even now, when LE have all but given up on doing anything to solve this case, information is still leaking out that reveals how badly this case was handled.

Local news media coverage is also not good. How else is the public supposed to learn about these problems? If not for the civil suit (a very expensive process most victim's families can't afford) many of the facts in this case would stay hidden indefinitely.

 

[Mica]

It looks like there are 2 partial basements. Both with their own set of stairs. One section is storage and mechanical rooms, the other (under the guest house area?) is the theater room

If you click around the planomatic you can see photos of the storage areas in the basement. There looks to be basements in both the main house and guesthouse according to the plan.

https://www.planomatic.com/mls14441

 

[Mica]

All of this recent information reminds me of how much a problem it can be when LE keeps so much information from the public, especially when cases go cold.

The public needs to have faith and trust in law enforcement and the criminal justice system and this is not how you do it. These institutions are accountable to the public, period. Even now, when LE have all but given up on doing anything to solve this case, information is still leaking out that reveals how badly this case was handled.

Local news media coverage is also not good. How else is the public supposed to learn about these problems? If not for the civil suit (a very expensive process most victim's families can't afford) many of the facts in this case would stay hidden indefinitely.

And it leaves one to wonder....WHY does this happen? :gaah: :waitasec:

 

[Tortoise]

My mind has turned again to the message on the door. I wonder if there has ever been any research done on messages left scrawled on the walls at the scenes of murders vs suicides.

So I'm not wondering about the message content or meaning, but the psychology behind the action and the prevalence of the action, in murders and suicides.

Does history tell us it is a hallmark of a murder, or is this phenomenon just as common with suicides? If the suicidal person feels such a strong need to leave a message, has there ever been a case before of a message left for no one in particular, not addressed to God/Jonah/EMS, but no strong desire to leave a message for the blood family they know love them and will be devastated?

In a suicide scenario I think as her alleged final message to the world it is more important from a psychological standpoint than anything she'd written in the past. Did the message match what experts know about a suicidal mind? They analysed women with breast implants, why not her 'suicide note' compared with studies of other suicide notes and murder messages.

 

[Zinn]

I really can't think of an interpretation of that door message that makes sense from a suicide perspective. I can think of two possible interpretations/motivations that make sense to me from a murder perspective. First, a punishment themed message to whomever was expected to encounter that door (most likely JS) and be drawn into the room, following the rope out onto the balcony to find Rebecca below. Alternatively, or perhaps concurrently, a message meant to manipulate and frighten a victim during a torture scenario, either in an attempt to manipulate them (for instance, to extract information or silence them) or simply taunt them. JMHO.

 

[Harmony 2]

My mind has turned again to the message on the door. I wonder if there has ever been any research done on messages left scrawled on the walls at the scenes of murders vs suicides.

So I'm not wondering about the message content or meaning, but the psychology behind the action and the prevalence of the action, in murders and suicides.

Does history tell us it is a hallmark of a murder, or is this phenomenon just as common with suicides? If the suicidal person feels such a strong need to leave a message, has there ever been a case before of a message left for no one in particular, not addressed to God/Jonah/EMS, but no strong desire to leave a message for the blood family they know love them and will be devastated?

In a suicide scenario I think as her alleged final message to the world it is more important from a psychological standpoint than anything she'd written in the past. Did the message match what experts know about a suicidal mind? They analysed women with breast implants, why not her 'suicide note' compared with studies of other suicide notes and murder messages.

Zahau's name in her native Burmese was "springtime beauty."

https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...hanging-case-against-adam-shacknai/400135002/


I followed this case for a few months after it happened. At the time, in trying to decipher the message, I looked at the third person reference in the message and did a little research into how pronouns are used in the Burmese language.

Polite pronouns are used to address elders, teachers and strangers, through the use of feudal-era third person pronouns in lieu of first and second person pronouns. In such situations, one refers to oneself in third person: ကျွန်တော် (kya. nau [tɕənɔ̀]) for males, and ကျွန်မ (kya. ma. [tɕəma̰]) for females, both meaning "your servant") and refer to the addressee as မင်း (min [mɪ́ɴ]; "your highness"), ခင်ဗျား (khang bya: [kʰəmjá]; "master lord")[1] or ရှင် (hrang [ʃɪ̀ɴ]; "ruler/master").[2] So ingrained are these terms in the daily polite speech that people use them as the first and second person pronouns without giving a second thought to the root meaning of these pronouns.

When speaking to a person of the same status or of younger age, ငါ (nga [ŋà]; "I/me") and နင် (nang [nɪ̀ɴ]; "you") may be used, although most speakers choose to use third person pronouns, typically derived from Burmese kinship terms.[3] For example, an older person may use ဒေါ်လေး (dau le: [dɔ̀ lé]; "aunt") or ဦးလေး (u: lei: [ʔú lé]; "uncle") to refer to himself, while a younger person may use either သား (sa: [θá]; son) or သမီး (sa.mi: [θəmí]; daughter).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese_pronouns

http://sealang.net/sala/archives/pdf4/bradley1993pronouns.pdf

 

[Brit]

I think that Greer bringing that mannequin in at closing arguments was a great thing for the jury to see. Not only could they see how low to the ground rebecca was hanging, and how the table wasn't needed to cut her down. But also, it shows that if adam had been standing on a table to cut her down, he would've been quite higher than her body. How would he have even been able to hold on to her? Think about if you stood on top of a table, and had a friend who is 5'2" stand on a chair next to you, this friends head would most likely come to your chest. So where did he grab onto when he was cutting her down, her head? it would be more plausible if he had said he grabbed a chair to stand on in my opinion.

all my opinions

 

[Mica]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...hanging-case-against-adam-shacknai/400135002/


I followed this case for a few months after it happened. At the time, in trying to decipher the message, I looked at the third person reference in the message and did a little research into how pronouns are used in the Burmese language.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese_pronouns

http://sealang.net/sala/archives/pdf4/bradley1993pronouns.pdf

Interesting, but I don’t recall Rebecca writing in the third person in her journal writing.