Rebecca's Autopsy

Discussion in 'Rebecca Zahau Nalepa' started by JBean, Sep 11, 2011.

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  1. JBean

    JBean Retired WS Administrator

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    Please discuss the autopsy here.



    Autopsy
     
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  3. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    I don't see anything in the AR to suggest that AS was witnessed giving CPR or that he did it for a "really long time."
     
  4. CDS22

    CDS22 New Member

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    It says he did it from when he found her til they arrived and continued to administer CPR til they told him to stop. More than what little Max got.
     
  5. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    Where does it say that? What it says is that Police Department arrived and began CPR and when Fire Department arrived they told Police Department to stop because she was already in rigor. Frankly that only suggests to me Coronado Police Department doesn't have much experience with dead bodies since they hasn't recognized there was no point of giving RN CPR.
     
  6. Dr. Know?

    Dr. Know? Former Member

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    I just finished reading the autopsy report and AS cut her down and removed the portion of the shirt that was in her mouth in order to do mouth to mouth. The PD then showed up at 6:48 am (iirc) and started to administer CPR but found rigor setting in and stopped.

    Boy, I had to sit with a medical dictionary to understand much of the report. The black paint as describe has me thinking a lot right now as well as all of the areas there were marks on her body & head.
     
  7. curiousjo

    curiousjo Member

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    Interesting review of RN autopsy findings:
    http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/08/rebecca-zahau-case-a-review-of-the-autopsy-report/

    ..."So to summarize, what we have is a beautiful young woman with no history of depression or psychiatric illness, grieving for a dying child, but no reports of excessive guilt, with no drugs or alcohol in her system, and no signs of a severe assault, who was found naked, bound, and gagged, hanging from a balcony from a water sport towing rope. Her injuries are very consistent with a drop of that length, as opposed to being staged into a noose from the ground below. She did not break her neck or injure her brain or spinal cord in the fall, or before the fall, but her laryngeal structures were essentially crushed and her neck muscles severely torn. The circumstances and the findings at the scene are perplexing, as is the psychological “post mortem” of her last few days.

    And we still don’t know whether it was suicide or homicide. The authorities have ruled it a suicide. I’m still not sure I agree."
     
  8. Lera213

    Lera213 New Member

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    So if I'm reading correctly the ME declared it a suicide because of the dirty feet and her foot prints but no other foot prints other than an officer while processing the scene.

    I suppose if it was murder, the killer could have held a gun to her and forced her out and then jump.

    The hands tied behind the back stated that one of her hands could have been pulled out easily. Well suppose she was working the rope and got it loose just before the jump or leap.

    The writing is strange, and the suicide is strange. Were they able to tell if it was her writing on the wall or not?

    "She saved him, but can you save her" Ok if she did write this, how did she save him? She was told that day that he wasn't expected to live right? So how is that saving him? Can you save her? Ok if she wrote that she is speaking to herself in past tense. This is very strange.
     
  9. IWannaKnow

    IWannaKnow New Member

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    Rebecca had 84" of rope extending away from her wrist bindings, and the tow rope handle was within the bindings on her feet. Given that I don't think there is any way in hell she could have propelled herself over that railing at her height with her hands bound behind her back IN ONE ATTEMPT based upon the foot prints found on the balcony.....makes me think that the handle on her feet and the 7 FEET of rope off her hands could have easily been used to manipulate her unconscious body over the railing.
     
  10. sorrell skye

    sorrell skye Well-Known Member

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  11. SophieRose

    SophieRose New Member

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    If it were me, they would have to shoot me before I would jump. Plus if I lived through the shooting, the sound might bring someone.
     
  12. Dr. Know?

    Dr. Know? Former Member

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    (′lī′vör ′mörd·əs)
    livor mortis (sounds normal at the amount of time after her death that ME started documenting the autopsy but wish there were some experts to weigh in here!)

    (pathology) The reddish-blue discoloration of the cadaver that occurs in the dependent portions of the body due to gradual gravitational flow of unclotted blood.


    Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/livor-mortis#ixzz1XnK7KrW3

    Here's another answer.

    Answer: Improve

    Livor mortis starts 20 minutes to 3 hours after death and is congealed in the capillaries in 4 to 5 hours. Maximum lividity occurs within 6-12 hours. The blood pools into the interstitial tissues of the body

    Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_before_livor_mortis_sets_in#ixzz1XnLuOC3a
     
  13. sorrell skye

    sorrell skye Well-Known Member

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    I'm still wondering about the red livor mortis on the upper chest.

    The AR states:

    POSTMORTEM CHANGES: Rigor mortis is mild and easily broken in the upper and lower extremities, neck, and jaw. Livor mortis is posterior, red and fixed. There is also red livor mortis on the upper chest.

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en

    No mention of livor mortis in the extremities. From what I've read about hanging deaths, livor mortis develops in the feet and hands.

    RZ was allegedly hanging for about 4 hours postmortem. There should have been lividity in her feet & hands.

    After she was cut down, she was reportedly immediately turned over onto her back (but tilted toward her left side),and lay on the ground for about 12 hours before she was transported to the ME's office.

    After hanging for 4 hours, how is it that no livor mortis developed in her extremities?

    If turned over immediately, how is that livor mortis developed on her upper chest?

    As has been discussed before: since she was lying on her back tilted toward her left side for 12 hours, how is it that livor mortis was only on her posterior, and not also on her left side?
     
  14. SunnieRN

    SunnieRN Active Member

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    This to me is something that makes NO sense and should be explained. It almost sounds, due to the word red being involved, as if Rebecca received an upper chest injury?

    When we talk about livor and rigor mortis, it leads me to wonder how she could have livor mortis on her back. When was she on her back for long enough for that to occur?
     
  15. sorrell skye

    sorrell skye Well-Known Member

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    With the red livor mortis on her upper chest noted by the ME, it sounds to me as if she had been lying face-down postmortem @ some point for a long enough period of time for the blood to settle in that area, but not long enough for it to become "fixed", as it was on her back.

    Yet, no lividity in the extremities (either fixed or transient) was noted in the AR (which would be expected in a hanging death where the victim had hung for 4 hours). Very odd, IMO.

    I look forward to Dr. Wecht weighing in on this.
     
  16. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    She was hanging first (for at least 3 and a half hours), then put onto her side (because her bound hands prevented her being flat on her back). I would expect livor mortis in her feet and hands, and on her side, but what do I know.
     
  17. SunnieRN

    SunnieRN Active Member

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    The fact that there is no livor in her extremities, along with livor on her back, not side, and the 'red' livor on her chest, tells me that there is NOT an adequate explanation for what occurred to Rebecca. Too much livor in all the wrong places.

    Tells me she was on her back for at least 4 hours, prior to being hung. Still doesn not explain the livor on the chest however.
     
  18. CDS22

    CDS22 New Member

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    Didn't they leave her lying on her back all day while they collected evidence?
     
  19. SunnieRN

    SunnieRN Active Member

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    Left side, as you can note yourself in photos.
     
  20. sorrell skye

    sorrell skye Well-Known Member

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    I remember reading recently (can't remember where I read it), that livor mortis can be redistributed to other areas of the body before it becomes fixed, if the body is moved into a different position. That still doesn't account for the lack of lividity in RZ's feet & hands, since with the lack of blood pressure, if lividity had developed in her feet & hands while hanging, even after being moved to a semi-supine position, at the very least the lividity should have developed somewhere in her hands, feet, arms, or legs, IMO.

    I found this interesting information just now:

    Livor Mortis

    • Evident 30-120 minutes postmortem
    • 8-12 hours (24-36 hours in cooler temps) postmortem-maximum color or "fixed"
    • May occur antemortem (before death) in slow deaths

    http://www.hpregional.org/departments/science/staffhomepages/tcostello/TimeofDeath.pdf
     
  21. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it can be re-distributed, but she was hanging first (for at least 3 and a half hours), and then laid on her side (for hours and hours-we all saw the helicopter photos). So it should have been fixed during that time.
     
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