Rescue at sea for sick baby

Rescued Family Will Not Speak to Media Upon Return to San Diego (today). The Kaufmans asked to get off the ship in Coronado and do not want to talk to the news media at the time. They plan to first take Lyra to see their family physician, the Navy said.

http://timesofsandiego.com/military...t-to-speak-to-media-upon-return-to-san-diego/

_____________

"I know there'll be tears and hugging and it's going to be great," said Charlotte's sister, Sariah English, who has been counting down the minutes. "I feel like a kid at Christmas. I don't know if I'll sleep tonight. It's getting closer and closer and so exciting." "I don't know if I want to hug the babies or my sister or … can't leave out my brother-in-law," said English.

http://www.10news.com/news/kaufman-...scue-off-the-coast-of-cabo-san-lucas-04082014
 
"Listen-we've got room for either the wheel or your inflated ego, but not both."

Having a good laugh at your comments. I'll be watching for these to show up on IMGUR's front page.:)
 
I saw on the Today show this morning that the tone seems to be changing.
Nothing was reported about their cocky defensive early reaction.


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A baby's ears are so sensitive and I would like to hear from an MD about the effect on a baby's equilibrium with the constant motion of the sea for extended periods of time. It seems to me the children could have all kinds of issues arising from this stupid trip (her words not mine).

I am glad the Navy sank their boat. They wanted to tag it and just let it drift so they could somehow find it again. Pffffft. Bravo, Navy Sailors!!

The article:

The family reportedly was given one trip to get their things off the boat – as much as they can carry -- before sailors sunk the Rebel Heart in the ocean, according to a Facebook update English posted Sunday evening.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...t-with-Sick-Baby-254056951.html#ixzz2yBcGvO3X

Could this childs leg developed improperly from learning to walk while on a boat had they been able to continue with the trip?This age is important in muscle development.

I have a very different perspective than most on here although my ultimate conclusion is the same as everyone else's. I believe we have so given in to a culture of fear and nannying about the parenting choices of others that we have given up the ability in some way, to fully live or to allow freedom of choice to others.

Life has inherent risks. Adventure is okay. And yes, even adventure with children, who do not have the capacity to choose, is okay, under certain conditions.

For example, I don't have a problem with the family who does plane stunts for a living, having their young children do a plane stunt fully harnassed, even though there is risk that the planes could've crashed. I don't have a problem with parents who take their young children up Mt. Kilimanjaro to be the youngest person to make the ascent. I don't have a problem with the parents who allowed their fully trained 17 or even 14 year olds attempt circumnavigation. Color me crazy, but I reject the climate of fear. Not everyone has it in them to adhere to strict rules regarding safety. And if everyone did, there would be no children gymnasts, motocross riders, martial artists, acrobats, football players, etc.

For goodness' sake, the US was founded on adventuring families. Families who risked far more than this one, taking their children and pregnant wives into the wilds, with no help around for not miles, but WEEKS. None of that would've been possible if the people back then lived in the culture of fear of today. They would've been arrested for child abuse.

I think we get a bit extreme when we attribute equilibrium damage or leg problems to a few weeks on a boat. Plenty of babies and toddlers travel by ship, on cruise boats, etc., and experience rough seas, even in those large ships. And, there are whole cultures of people who live on boats. Google Sea Gypsies for example.

And yes, I myself am not willing to put a child of mine at risk in such an adventure. But many of families actually do. There are adventuring families who live at sea, or bike with their small kids across a continent or two, etc. And my personal parenting choices should not govern the choices others make.

That being said, while I am not opposed, in general, to parents allowing risk into their children's lives in a way I myself would not, I find these people to be exceedingly ignorant and selfish and I hope they will be charged with criminal negligence, for the reasons stated below:

I really couldn't understand what the big deal was. People sail with young kids, I know a couple who did this around the world. I didn't read anything as I thought about this. But then I read facebook. Crazy. Taking a ride from strangers in mexico with your children how foolishly stupid can you be. And I saw the ship.. Kids can't even play outside without almost falling in arghhh. I could go on. Maybe they should of traveled the world before they had kids. I hope the girl is feeling better.

Omg...shaving in the blender pitcher, rinsing diapers in the gally sink..are these people for real? Could they not at least brought a bucket for such things? Those poor babies...:banghead::banghead:

Hummmmmmmmmmm Rebel Heart. I think the name of the boat puts it all into perspective. These two were going to do whatever they wanted to do and "damn you" if you didn't like it.

They did not have the experience to sail in the open ocean the way they were attempted to do. I'm beginning to think that this trip was indeed a "pipe dream" with absolutely no regard for the safety and well being of the children. It is no wonder that the baby was sick, I'm very surprised that the entire family did not die at sea with the totally unsanitary conditions on board. Add that to the inexperience of the couple and their inability to comprehend the dangers of sailing untrained and unprepared and you have the makings of a tragedy. They do not have the sense to take care of children.:banghead:

These parents are arrogant and selfish, IMO. This was about them, not their family. This was about getting attention and being cool, not about lifestyle or education or achievement. (I hated, BTW, that post about depriving her poor kid of a bit of cake so she could eat it herself. What mother does that? Most mothers sacrifice everything for their kids bit of pleasure. Geez.)

They were woefully unprepared. The boat they used was unseaworthy and prone to taking on water. They didn't even have a bucket? And what's this nonsense about cleaning poo diapers in a food sink? Hello? There is a massive ocean right outside the window. A little baby poop and soap wouldn't have hurt the ocean! Clean it there!

And they were extremely inexperienced. If you get seasick, you're not sea faring and should stay on dry land rather than sailing for weeks. Insanity! You can die from seasickness. If this family had strong sea legs and their kids had been born on boats, that's one thing. But the mother was prone to sea sickness? That says it all. And if she was, chances are the kids were.

I see no experience or preparedness to speak of- just selfish, ignorant people who spent most of their time complaining about their lack of preparedness and the rigors of the "adventure". Nonsense. The constant complaints of the mother about what she was suffering betray their intolerance and incompatibility with any significant adventure. I've read books by people who have taken their families on crazy adventures like this. No complaints about the rigors. Just gratitude and awe and a chronicling of the obstacles they overcame.

I spoke above about a culture of fear we've developed in this country. We also have developed, however, IMO, a culture of narcissism that has resulted in he compulsion to display every aspect of one's life publicly, to be special and to receive accolades for being who you are.

This is what I think these people's cute little stunt was about, IMO, and they should pay for that.
 
Eric Kaufman, a U.S. Coast Guardsman, sent a message through social media Monday.

“We're safe and headed back to San Diego. I'll talk to the press and answer questions after we catch our breath. Some interesting emails!”


Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...cue-Sea-Kaufman--254568371.html#ixzz2yPYahuqH

_________

Eric and Charlotte Kaufman and their two daughters will disembark when the ship docks at Naval Air Station North Island to unload ordnance. The ship will then sail across San Diego Bay to its home port at the 32nd Street Naval Station, where dozens of journalists will await. The Kaufmans are seeking to avoid the media gaggle.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...returns-20140409,0,218491.story#ixzz2yPabPG3h
 
I simply am blown away that the "cruising community" at large has made this family thier poster child. They do not seem to understand why people are upset. It has nothing to do with their choice of lifestyle- it has to do with common sense, imo.
 
Okay, let's assume that their planning and preparation was adequate, and that it was theoretically possible for them to have made this long journey safely in their small boat, but:

The mother didn't know how to sail in case the father was incapacitated.

They were all hungry at least part of the time.

They didn't know better than to contaminate their food prep area with fecal matter (and since the baby and mother had both had salmonella pre-voyage, they seemingly didn't take proper precautions when not at sea). It's difficult to stay clean on a boat, even when docked.

The mother had been suffering from depression and suicidal thoughts two months before departure.

They apparently have no money. How were they to provide for themselves when they reached their destination? A financial services industry professional who seemed to be semi-retired should have had some reserve cash so they didn't have to pass the hat when they washed up back in San Diego.

They hadn't worked out how to keep the baby from being flung around the cabin while she tried to sleep.

Neither child could swim.

Apparently more than one person had told them their trip was ill-advised, including the mother's brother and other more experienced sailors.

They were giving Bonine to children who were not old enough to take it.

They had no shade feature for the outside deck.

They had only spent 4 days at sea before embarking on their big voyage, and at least two of "the crew" had suffered from seasickness.

There was no possibility that the baby would have any memories, fond or otherwise, of her great adventure.

No doubt I've missed something, but can anyone point out anything that indicates that this voyage was other than dangerous. selfish, and irresponsible on the part of the captain and his first mate?
 
I simply am blown away that the "cruising community" at large has made this family thier poster child. They do not seem to understand why people are upset. It has nothing to do with their choice of lifestyle- it has to do with common sense, imo.

After reading bits and pieces of the wife's blog, I'm not so sure she has common sense because IMHOO <modsnip>
 
I am all for adventure. My girls and I go sailing in fact. They even do the trapeze on the side of the sailboat. :scared:
(I HATE the water with a fiery passion but do it because my kids love it.)

We go snowmobiling, sledding, sailing, boating, camping, hiking, horseback riding... we don't just sit in our house all day.
However, we are OVER prepared for emergencies and can basically handle them ourselves.
We take more precautions than these fools when we go sailing on the LAKE or go snowmobiling 2 hours from home.

And mother writes how she made a cake then lied to the kid that all cake was gone so she and her husband can finish the cake later.
The kid is supposed to understand that when she becomes a parent.
What is she supposed to understand?

Last night my girls and I made a Cherry Pie. The 4 adults each had a piece and so did each child.
I looked at the rest of the pie last night... and saved it for my girls this morning. :twocents:
 
And mother writes how she made a cake then lied to the kid that all cake was gone so she and her husband can finish the cake later.
The kid is supposed to understand that when she becomes a parent.
What is she supposed to understand?

I wondered the same thing.
 
It's not fear that holds parents back on some activities, it's common sense.

moo


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I am all for adventure. My girls and I go sailing in fact. They even do the trapeze on the side of the sailboat. :scared:

(I HATE the water with a fiery passion but do it because my kids love it.)



We go snowmobiling, sledding, sailing, boating, camping, hiking, horseback riding... we don't just sit in our house all day.

However, we are OVER prepared for emergencies and can basically handle them ourselves.

We take more precautions than these fools when we go sailing on the LAKE or go snowmobiling 2 hours from home.







Last night my girls and I made a Cherry Pie. The 4 adults each had a piece and so did each child.

I looked at the rest of the pie last night... and saved it for my girls this morning. :twocents:


My parents loved to sail. They had a 36 foot sail boat while I was very small and a larger one after right up until my dad died several years ago.

Never once did they ever sail with me out in the middle of the ocean! In the bay or hugging the coastline was about it.

There was a lot of talk once about sailing to Florida from New Jersey. My mom wanted to, my dad didn't fearing for her safety if something were to happen to him. They never made the trip because my dad had sense enough to foresee the dangers.




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Gitana1, #104 I get what you're saying about fear and a nanny mentality from the public. I also agree about pioneers and the people that live a nomadic life style that may threaten their children's lives. Imo when the navy, coast guard, police or any agency that's funded by tax dollars swoops in to save them, these people have bought the public's opinion. You are correct there will always be people willing to take a chance, but don't get upset when the general public is outraged. Now there's fund raising for them. Children aside, I wouldn't give them the time of day. Moo

ciao
 
It's obviously not their "lifestyle" because anyone who truly lives this lifestyle would never have taken a small child on the boat this way because they know the reality of being at sea. That's what the quote from the guy above shows. This was a fantasy lifestyle. IMO

Agree with you. Older kids, maybe but a baby in diapers? Hell no.
 
I have a very different perspective than most on here although my ultimate conclusion is the same as everyone else's. I believe we have so given in to a culture of fear and nannying about the parenting choices of others that we have given up the ability in some way, to fully live or to allow freedom of choice to others.

Life has inherent risks. Adventure is okay. And yes, even adventure with children, who do not have the capacity to choose, is okay, under certain conditions.

For example, I don't have a problem with the family who does plane stunts for a living, having their young children do a plane stunt fully harnassed, even though there is risk that the planes could've crashed. I don't have a problem with parents who take their young children up Mt. Kilimanjaro to be the youngest person to make the ascent. I don't have a problem with the parents who allowed their fully trained 17 or even 14 year olds attempt circumnavigation. Color me crazy, but I reject the climate of fear. Not everyone has it in them to adhere to strict rules regarding safety. And if everyone did, there would be no children gymnasts, motocross riders, martial artists, acrobats, football players, etc.

For goodness' sake, the US was founded on adventuring families. Families who risked far more than this one, taking their children and pregnant wives into the wilds, with no help around for not miles, but WEEKS. None of that would've been possible if the people back then lived in the culture of fear of today. They would've been arrested for child abuse.

I think we get a bit extreme when we attribute equilibrium damage or leg problems to a few weeks on a boat. Plenty of babies and toddlers travel by ship, on cruise boats, etc., and experience rough seas, even in those large ships. And, there are whole cultures of people who live on boats. Google Sea Gypsies for example.

And yes, I myself am not willing to put a child of mine at risk in such an adventure. But many of families actually do. There are adventuring families who live at sea, or bike with their small kids across a continent or two, etc. And my personal parenting choices should not govern the choices others make.

That being said, while I am not opposed, in general, to parents allowing risk into their children's lives in a way I myself would not, I find these people to be exceedingly ignorant and selfish and I hope they will be charged with criminal negligence, for the reasons stated below:




Snipped by me.



I spoke above about a culture of fear we've developed in this country. We also have developed, however, IMO, a culture of narcissism that has resulted in he compulsion to display every aspect of one's life publicly, to be special and to receive accolades for being who you are.

This is what I think these people's cute little stunt was about, IMO, and they should pay for that
.

BBM: You have pretty much summed it up IMO. I have no problem with teaching your children to experience all life has to offer but these two "parents" were out there for themselves. Anyone who doesn't know to keep feces out of the kitchen doesn't have the sense it takes to pour pee out of a boot, IMO. I agree, if this woman couldn't keep her cookies down while sailing she definitely wasn't a sailor.

My husband and I had a sailboat and sailed often, however, when children were on board we sailed just off shore and each child had a life vest on and a life line attached while on deck. Yeah, I know I was probably way too cautious but that is just me.

That boat was way too light and not an ocean ready vessel. Total irresponsible and I think endangering the children.
 
Rescued Family Will Not Speak to Media Upon Return to San Diego (today). The Kaufmans asked to get off the ship in Coronado and do not want to talk to the news media at the time. They plan to first take Lyra to see their family physician, the Navy said.

http://timesofsandiego.com/military...t-to-speak-to-media-upon-return-to-san-diego/

_____________

"I know there'll be tears and hugging and it's going to be great," said Charlotte's sister, Sariah English, who has been counting down the minutes. "I feel like a kid at Christmas. I don't know if I'll sleep tonight. It's getting closer and closer and so exciting." "I don't know if I want to hug the babies or my sister or … can't leave out my brother-in-law," said English.

http://www.10news.com/news/kaufman-...scue-off-the-coast-of-cabo-san-lucas-04082014

Might I suggest to Sariah English that as soon as she hugs her sister Charlotte she should slap some sense into her.:floorlaugh:
 
Agree with you. Older kids, maybe but a baby in diapers? Hell no.


IMO if the kids were older, had a passion for it, like 15-16-17 years old& avid & knowledgable sailors, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I don't think parents have the right to endanger their children like that.
They're little and have no say in the matter. I view it no differently than those parents that refuse medical treatment for their children when there is a really good chance they would actually live if given the treatment. The court agrees the child's best interest trumps.




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