Results from Genealogy DNA testing are in!

Discussion in 'Benjaman Kyle' started by DawnTCB, Feb 19, 2009.

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  1. DawnTCB

    DawnTCB Taking Care of Business

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    Hey guys!
    I have BK on my "google alerts" and got this story yesterday:

    "Using Geneology to Identify an Amnesia Victim"

    which says the results of his Y-DNA genealogy DNA tests are in.

    "A 50/60 year old amnesia victim going by the name of Benjaman Kyle recently had his Y-DNA tested in an attempt to learn something about his origins; resulting in a close 37 marker connection with several members of the POWELL Surname DNA surname project at FamilyTreeDNA.

    I think this is the best news we have had yet! I guess we should get started with the sleuthin'. :D
     
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  3. carolwood

    carolwood New Member

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    I am going thru GA. Unclaimed Properties:

    Ben Powell, Athens, Ga
    Benjamin S. Powell, Athens, GA
    Bennie Powell, Kite, GA
    Bennie L. Powell, Jackson, GA
    Bennie L. Powell, Griffin, GA
    Benny V. Powell, Unknown

    PS, there are 1168 POWELL in GA

    635 Howell:
    Benjamin R. Howell, Grayson, GA
    Benjamin W. Howell, APO
     
  4. dreamweaver

    dreamweaver New Member

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    There are nine states that Joseph Powell family show on map/ y dna.
    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Powell/default.aspx?section=yresults
    Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama, S Carolina, N Carolina, Virginia, Tennesse, New York, Wisconsin. Then, 6 in United Kingdom (Worcester, Heresford, and one close to Warrington, the others I cannot see a name).
    Then, one(1) in Ireland, in Dunamanway.
    And Europe.
    One (1) close to Baden Baden, Germany and one (1) that looks like it is east of Afghanistan and northeast of Pakistan, just inside China's border.

    I hope I got these correct. Let's change it, as needed.
     
  5. dreamweaver

    dreamweaver New Member

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    cities on map: Joseph Powell family:
    Aliceville, AL, near Tuscaloosa,
    Montgomery, AL
    Woodstock, GA
    one off of I- 20, 12 miles east of Augusta, Ga. (south of route 20, north of the 874 ; maybe April Dr or Kellie Ck)
    Ashton, GA close by
    Minor Hill, TN close by) just over the alabama state line
    Chadbourne, NC
    Lumberton, NC
    Edenton, NC
    Isle of Wright, VA (close by)
    Desha, VA (close by)
    Morgantown, WV
    Harmony Grove, WV
    Mayfield, KY
    Minor Hill, TN (close by)
    Berryville, VA
    Jamestown Island, WI,

    I might have missed one. Eyes are starting to cross.
    Change, add to, whatever works.
     
  6. carolwood

    carolwood New Member

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    Do we know exactly which Joseph Powell line we are chasing, I have a least 5 I know of.
     
  7. EmMomma

    EmMomma Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult

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    This is great news! :clap: I never post here, but read as often as I can. :) What great news for Mr. Kyle.
     
  8. believe09

    believe09 Active Member

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    The Joseph Powell Family?? I am so confused-I see someone in the Leesburg area and in Tenn, but that is it so far...are you using the kit number??
     
  9. carolwood

    carolwood New Member

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    Yes, his kit # is in the Joseph Powell group, but which one is the question, I see a few Joseph Powell families.
     
  10. christine2448

    christine2448 Retired WS Staff

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    kit # 140314

    Joseph Powell Group 14813082Powell R1b1b2132414111115121212131329179911112515193115151617 149127468
    Powell R1b1b2132414111115121212131329179911112515193115151617 111119231716171937421212 150110820
    Powell R1b1b2132414111115121212131329179911112515193115151617 111119231716171938411212 151N48878
    Powell R1b1b2a1b132414111115121212131329179911112515193115151617 111119231716171938421212 152140314
    Kyle R1b1b2132414111115121212131329179911112515193115151617 111119231716181936421212 153108454
     
  11. believe09

    believe09 Active Member

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    His entry number is 152 on the list...it says Kyle under the surname listing.
     
  12. christine2448

    christine2448 Retired WS Staff

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    Yup, that is correct...FYI. :D
     
  13. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    Pulling the list of possible last names from the general discussion thread.

    Howell
    Pauwel
    Pauwels
    Pouel
    Powel
    Powells
    Powels
    Powell

    I'd like to add these to the tags with missing. We can each only add two, but I would like to see them added in the event anyone of BK's family or friends are looking for him and for whatever reason were unable to file a missing persons report.

    I'm also going to ask if we can please, pretty please, keep the discussion regarding this last name possibility within this thread as opposed to the general discussion thread which already has 500 posts for easier finding and reference. There is no reason to keep everything into the GD thread when we have an entire forum here. TY!
     
  14. carolwood

    carolwood New Member

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    Do you want us to hit topix boards with the information of Ben being a Powell?, especially in Denver and Indianapolis?
     
  15. christine2448

    christine2448 Retired WS Staff

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    We do not know "Ben is a Powell" at this point.
     
  16. JaneInOz

    JaneInOz Former Member

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    WOW this is exciting news :clap:
     
  17. snowme

    snowme New Member

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    :bananajump:Very exciting news, indeed!

    I've got alot of catching up to do!
     
  18. believe09

    believe09 Active Member

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    This is a copy of one of the informational pages from Family Tree dot com. I highlighted some pertinent sentences at the bottom. It seems to me that it is far too soon for everyone to be making the assumption that my last name is Powell since we do not know what my last name is. Matching surnames seems to be a major part in concluding who a person is related to. Respectfully yours,
    Benjaman Kyle
    Understanding Matches

    Just as there are surnames which are very common, (such as Smith and Jones), and surnames which are uncommon, there are Haplotypes (a set of results that characterize you on the Y-Chromosome) with a high frequency of occurrence (aka common), and Haplotypes with a low frequency of occurrence (aka uncommon). The 12 Marker result from the Y-chromosome test is called a Haplotype, and can help determine if your DNA sample is common or uncommon.
    When you compare a 12 Marker result to another 12 marker result of someone with the SAME surname, and the results match 12/12, there is a 99% probability that you two are related within the time frame included in the MRCA tables. If the match is 11/12, there's still a high probability that you are related IF the 11/12 match is within the same surname. If you compare a 25 Marker result to another 25 marker result for the SAME surname, and the results match 25/25, then there is also a 99% confidence that the two individuals are related…and at a much closer time interval than with the 12 marker test.
    If you compare the 12 marker result to someone else who does not have the same surname, but the scores match, you are most likely NOT recently related. When we use the term recently related, we are talking about a time frame within the last 1000 years or 40 generations, a time depth that accommodates the earliest known use of surnames.
    According to current theories, we are all related. The degree of relatedness depends on the time frame, or the number generations between the participants and the common ancestor.
    We all descend from one single person, but of course the DNA test that we do is not to tell us this obvious fact.
    Since we all descent from one person, and then from a few families, and as times goes by those families keep branching out up to the point where we get to our own family nest, it would be natural that when we check our DNA, the less markers we check, the less unique they are, and the more markers we test, the more unique the whole string of markers is. In other words, to go to extremes, if we tested only one marker, we would most certainly match with millions of individuals that shared that marker for thousands of years. But if on the other hand when we test many markers, we will match very very few people that share those same markers. Those would be the ones that are closely related to us.
    This is valid when checking our matches on 12, 25 or 37 markers. The likelihood that we will match other individuals with 12 markers is far greater than matching on 25 or 37. Especially if our family descends from a populational group that came from one or a few prolific families thousands of years ago (which is the case for Western Europe). Dr. Luigi Lucca Cavalli-Sforza, Professor Emeritus, Stanford University, in his fascinating book: The Great Human Diasporas: The History of Diversity and Evolutions says that the total population of Europe was 60,000 people at the end of the last Ice Age, about 10,000 years ago. Now Europe has a population of 300 million people. This increase is almost entirely due to a natural increase in population rather then immigration from other continents. Keeping this in mind it is reasonable that many people alive today in Europe will match with other Europeans from BEFORE the time that our ancestors began the adoption of surnames, and when you match someone who has a different surname your first thought should be that the ‘connection’ is distant rather then recent.
    Our bodies work as copy machines when it comes to the Y-DNA. You can have a copy machine doing 1,000 copies without a problem, and then, the 1,001 copy may have an "o" that looks more like an "e". And when we use this copy to make additional ones, all the new ones will now have an "e" instead of an "o". This is a simple way to explain how mutations occur in our Y-DNA when it's transferred (copied) from father to son. Mutations don't happen frequently, on the contrary, very seldom, but they can happen randomly in time, which means that I could be one mutation off of my father. That is why all those matches or close matches on 12 markers will in most of the cases go away when they happen between different surnames, and we increased the numbered of markers that are compared: more mutations showing up, which means way back in time when the common ancestor lived.
    The only exceptions to this are if an unannounced adoption or false paternity has taken place, but that is difficult to prove, although certainly not impossible.
    If two 12 marker results match for two participants with the same surname, and the genealogy research shows a common ancestor in 1835, the DNA test has validated the research and proven that the two descendents are related. In this example, you have two items of evidence to support that the individuals tested are related…a documented paper trail and the DNA results. In addition, the research provided a precise time frame for the common ancestor.
    Without the genealogy research, and where 2 participants with the same surname match on the 12 marker test, then the scientific answer to the degree of relatedness is that 50% of the time the common ancestor would have occurred within 7 generations, or within approximately 150 years. The range of generations for the common ancestor extends to 76.9 generations, or almost 2000 years for those cases where there is not a surname in common. Therefore the importance of a surname link is paramount to provide a comfortable conclusion of relatedness. Most of the time random matches with people with different surnames do not stand the test for extended DNA testing.
    While the MRCA tables will give you the general probabilities for relationships on different levels of matching, the FTDNATiP found in your personal matches page will give you probabilities that are specific to others that you may be related.
     
  19. Cymro

    Cymro New Member

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    Re: the surname variations, Powell I think is the most common.

    Ap Howell (or Ap Hywel) is going to be very, very rare outside Wales, where I'm from - it is the original version of Powell and means "Of Howell" with the A dropping off in English use over time. You also see this with some other "P" surnames like Pugh (Ap Huw), Pritchard (Ap Ritchard) and Preece (Ap Rhys).

    There are 231,000 Powells (approximately) in the US; zero Powels or Powells's (I hate that apostrophe but it had to be done) and Pauwel doesn't even appear on the list of surnames I researched. Now those figures may be inaccurate but even if there are 10 of each of the variant surnames, the chances are only 1 in 3000 that, if he is part of a Powell group, the surname is not Powell but one of the linked ones.

    Obviously he could be related by marriage, adopted, or not related at all in any meaningful sense - but the likelihood is very high that, if he is a "Powell" then that is exactly how he spells it.
     
  20. Cymro

    Cymro New Member

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    Oh and WRT to BK's link on interpretation, I am rather more confident than that:

    http://www.familytreedna.com/genetic-distance-37-markers.aspx

    My understanding (and I am happy to be corrected) is that there is a 37-point match with members of the Joseph Powell family group. If that is the case, the likelihood is high that there is a common male ancestor within a much shorter time frame and this family needs to be looked into.

    It may not show up anything of course but the article that BK has provided seems to focus only on 12-point markers, which are much, much less likely to show a link and, without the surname, appear to be meaningless. Even with a surname, a common ancestor within the last 500-600 years probably doesn't bring us much further forward.

    A 37-point match however is a 50% probability of a common male ancestor within 5 generations and 90% within 16 generations. (Admittedly this could get us from Barack Obama to Dick Cheney). Those confidence levels are with the same surname of course, whereas a 12-point match is, as BK states, a very low level indicator of common ancestry.
     
  21. SewingDeb

    SewingDeb "Sorry, I'm not qualified to land the plane."

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    Do you all think it would be a good idea to post his information and picture at all of the Powell pages on genealogy sites?
     
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