Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 11/3/14 Hearing - Part 2

[ElleElle]

Just watched video for first time. I do believe now that the secret witness was Jodi Arias herself and she is testifying to yet another story for which they will call a witness on her behalf.

Yes! And, she has another tale, Juan will be all over her, and this is why she doesn't want video.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Perhaps Jodi's new story slants favorably to a portrayal of her being mentally ill.

i didn't think she would cop to saying she is mentally ill, but she will if she has to. I think for sure she wants to claim abuse and pedophilia. I also know Juan is ready for her. One thing is sure, the person who stated she would bed for the death penalty is going to beg for her life. Without showing remorse of course, because she still believes she is innocent of wrong doing.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Wouldn't a "mentally ill" defense have been brought out in the guilt phase, rather than mitigation?

No. First of all, she is NOT mentally ill.
Second, in her mind Travis deserved what he got because he would not marry her and she could not control him. No way was she going to allow her defense attorneys to do anything except claim self defense.

 

[Hope4More]

IMO, this whole "witnesses are too scared to testify" nonsense started in the guilt phase when JM warned witnesses that if they lied he would press perjury charges faster than their boots could hit the ground. With that they were "too scared" to testify. Nurmi did not clarify too scared of what; he just said his witnesses had been intimidated. That morphed into threatened. And when that notion was given some attention he continued on in that vein...to the present where people are in fear for their lives if they testify...... He's just milking this, because he can.

That's exactly how I remember the progression. And I think ALV had a lot to do with this descent into madness.

Her drama queen trip to the hospital because JM was being mean to her and so many were howling in outrage and disgust online about her slop- timony. And her accusations of being stalked and harassed because the media took photos of her dining in plain view with DT members.

The more ALV discredited herself on the stand , the louder were Nurmi's complaints about media jeopardizing the trial.

Diversion. And now, diversion and trying to run the clock down.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Hey, i am first!

Hey Kensie, I love this picture you are using of Travis. He looks so content in that picture. (sigh)
If he only knew what was coming.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Wouldn't a "mentally ill" defense have been brought out in the guilt phase, rather than mitigation?

Nurmi and Wilmont fought for self defense and not mentally ill, then in Nurmi's closing he said maybe she just snapped, and now the mentally ill girl for this part.

 

[Love Never Fails]

That's exactly how I remember the progression. And I think ALV had a lot to do with this descent into madness.

Her drama queen trip to the hospital because JM was being mean to her and so many were howling in outrage and disgust online about her slop- timony. And her accusations of being stalked and harassed because the media took photos of her dining in plain view s the DT members.

The more ALV discredited herself on the stand , the louder were Nurmi's complaints about media jeopardizing the trial.

Diversion. And now, diversion and trying to run the clock down.

May I add I think the whole trip to the hospital by ALV was planned by her and the defense to set all this in motion. I also believe she trained Jodi in how to respond to Juan's questioning. ALV and Jodi testified using the same mannerisms and the same warped attitiude. I bet she was paid handsomely for her performance!! Remember however, it did Jodi no good at all. Convicted of murder one.

 

[Boytwnmom]

anyway was responding to Reagan who wrote:

I'm a day late bringing this up, but if I was ole nurms (and JSS), I wouldn't want the public to see and scrutinize my performance either. Man, is he a whiner... "if the media causes a mistrial then so be it". Forget the fact that it wouldn't even be the medias fault if there is a mistrial, but instead his delay tactics and JSS inability to control her courtroom and make sound decisions.
On the video that was posted of yesterdays hearing (which I can no longer find), Nurmi couldn't even back up his argument with any case law. He just said "well judge I can't remember which case it is, but...." And instead of demanding he back up his arguments, like judges are supposed to, JSS was like "yeah, okay, agreed..it will be problematic". To which they go into a secret discussion, after being told they can no longer hold trials in secret. It's a joke. The fact that it's taken 6yrs to get justice is a joke.
Even casey anthonys case, where there was the most discovery I've ever seen in a trial, took 3yrs to be resolved. Ts all just a damn joke.

PS excuse the day late, jumbled rant...but I've taken enough cold medicine to kill a small pony

Don't forget, he also blamed the state and then the media. It is a lot to expect, that a defense attorney arguing for who knows what can't cite a case. I don't even know exactly what he was arguing for or against. The CT granted the stay of JS's secrecy order. Now this, to a normal atty, would signal they have a losing argument.

So, that would mean he would come to court the next day understanding that the trial must go on and he can't have a secret witness. To me, a "normal attorney" would then try for the lesser restrictions mentioned by the CT to try and get something. But this pre-supposes good faith. And this is really my issue with the DT. I sense a certain lack of good faith. It seemed pretty clear that KN couldn't cite any AZ precedent for what he was requesting and the CT of Appeals granted the stay, indicating a likelihood of success for the media position. So, what type of good faith basis could he have for refusing to go forward with the mitigation proceeding? I'm not really seeing any. Course, how can we possibly know since, as you noted, they then went into a secret discussion, again.

I went and listened to todays proceedings again to try and figure out KN's actual argument and I am even more incredulous. Juan gets up and makes perfect sense so no need to discuss.

KN gets up and starts with his statement, that he doesn't remember the case but the holding is that the state is presumed to know the law. And that means state should know defendants rights are superior to victims. Notes this is not about sabotage. He goes on about how he does want to go forward and would be happy to do so just as JS agreed to last week. (OK, that is a total bad faith argument as JS's secret witness order was stayed-she can't allow it) He continues about how Rule 19 isn't important here. Rights of JA are and JS herself found going ahead not in secret would be "problematic"-uses her word "problematic" numerous times. From that he states as fact that what JS found as "problematic" is of constitutional significance, that JA has the right to litigate issues and he's happy to go forward as JS said he could in secrecy. Then he gets into the media causing this and Juan not arguing against media so it's his fault too and so the media can cause a mistrial. He ends with acting all confused about why the judge is changing her position, why she would try to make them go forward without the promised secrecy, since she said it was problematic, like he completely forgot JS's order got slapped down by the appeals ct.

His "argument" is, well, lame and disengenuous, unless he has actual amnesia and forgot he went to the court of appeals. Whatever JS thought was "problematic", she simply can't let DT go forward in secrecy because the higher ct said she can't. Yet he is still arguing for that. He's got to know it isn't even possible. Of course he's using JS's words against her but even that is fairly lame, so she agreed it was "problematic" to go forward without the secrecy, when she agreed to the secrecy, of course she did, she needed to state some plausible reason to cave in to a ridiculous request. Just because something is problematic doesn't mean it affects JA's constitutional rights. "Problematic" is just about the lamest excuse for defying the constitution I've come across lately. That pesky 1st Amendment is just so "problematic" we should just do away with it for JA.

But then, JS speaks and actually starts to put her foot down and lay it on the table (mixed methaphors but I took some NYQUIL too). There she is, strong and decisive: the court stayed my order. You have to decide about proceeding out of order and not in preferred manner. you have other witnesses.....then it goes downhill-she starts caving...well, I know you have to file papers by Friday so I will limit the time you have to spend here. Juan says all DT has is 2 experts and one other witness from CA and the rest are affidavits. Then, you guessed it, she calls for secrecy because they're discussing witnesses and of course they need to be secret even though the court pretty much said they couldn't be and so it ends as always with wishy washy caving in and cancelling court and preserving the secrecy of the witnesses for another day.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thank you!! I wanted to rewatch it and just did, thanks to you.

It seems clear after rewatching that CMJA has been on the stand. JM stated categorically and without hesitation that the witness who had been testifying would be available (today).

He wouldn't have presumed and asserted availability for any other defense witness, imo. It has to be her, and Nurmi must have allocated at least several more days for her on the stand.

I also noticed in the hearing that Juan thinks the entire secretive witness bull is much ado about nothing.

From what I picked up from him he said these witnesses have already testified in court so saying they are intimidated now is pure foolish. I think he mentioned the DT only had 2-3 witnesses and then a couple of affidavits. I guess those 2-3 are besides JA.

I liked it when he told JSS or they could put the witness back on the stand that was testifying which is Arias.

 

[rose222]

There are plenty of people (Jodi's supporters) who threaten Juan Martinez. Only difference is that he's not jobless enough to pay attention to those threats and waste the court's time. I've never seen a defense lawyer who is more interested in following this case on social media than doing his job. Nurmi and Jodi are similar in a few ways...they can't engage in a conversation without bringing in sex, they blame everything and everyone for their own inadequacies and last but not least, they are both paranoid about what others think of them.

It was premature of us (a few weeks ago) to believe that this trial was going to end in the near future. We'll be lucky to get a verdict by Valentine's day. That is, if we don't have a mistrial due to lack of jurors.

 

[Steve44]

Perhaps Jodi's new story slants favorably to a portrayal of her being mentally ill.

And that's exactly the kind of testimony JA would be desperate to minimize exposure to. You may be on to something there...

 

[Hope4More]

Thanks Hope. I agree. It was made obvious without having to say the killers name. Pretty cool.

JM was magnificent in that regard. Without violating any secret secrecy sealed sidebar somethings, he told anyone who was listening that: CMJA is the secret witness, that the DT has 2 expert witnesses and maybe one civilian witness from CA, and a handful of sworn statements that probably can be stipulated to by counsel. That's it.

Put that together with what JSS said --that she saw no problem with calling some of his witnesses out of order . Some of the big number of 3.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Wouldn't a "mentally ill" defense have been brought out in the guilt phase, rather than mitigation?

Insanity defense is a higher standard which would be used in the guilt phase than suffering from a mental illness and that being a mitigator. Simple fact is, that Jodi suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder, which in her case is a professional way of calling her the %$&# that she is

 

[wenwe4]

At this point, I am now feeling that Nurmi's attempts to delay trial with his tactics to push this on to the COA is now going to backfire and leave a huge soot stain on the DT's face. COA is going to rule that all of the secrecy stop and JSS will have to set some real boundaries with Nurmi. The COA ruling might also set up less appellate issues for JA to bring up in the future (hoping).

I watched JM do his thing previously and I believe he has just given the DT "enough rope" . . . Nurmi will have gone from "butt hurt" to "butt bitten". These antics are so out of the norm - I dare say we are seeing the lunatic fringe of the bell curve with the DT tactics. JM will bring things back in balance - with the backing of the COA. MOO

 

[Steve44]

Wouldn't a "mentally ill" defense have been brought out in the guilt phase, rather than mitigation?

I don't think she would have allowed such a defense while she was still holding out hope for a not guilty, or guilty of lesser. It's different now, and these are desperate times.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

JM was magnificent in that regard. Without violating any secret secrecy sealed sidebar somethings, he told anyone who was listening that: CMJA is the secret witness, that the DT has 2 expert witnesses and maybe one civilian witness from CA, and a handful of sworn statements that probably can be stipulated to by counsel. That's it.

Put that together with what JSS said --that she saw no problem with calling some of his witnesses out of order . Some of the big number of 3.

If he is trying to stall this case and not end it until next year he must be planning on Arias being up there for a whole darn month this time. The mere thought makes me want to upchuck.

If so, everyone, but JA .....will be driven insane inside that courtroom by then listening to her drone on ...while making up news lies and KN doing it too.

 

[mydirtysecret]

coa definitely won't handle KN with kid gloves and coddle him during his temper tantrums like JSS. we can be sure of at least that. We may get lucky and he might actually be told to go to time out by an actual judge.

Eta- COA won't buy into his borderline schizophrenic rants either. p

 

[Love Never Fails]

JM was magnificent in that regard. Without violating any secret secrecy sealed sidebar somethings, he told anyone who was listening that: CMJA is the secret witness, that the DT has 2 expert witnesses and maybe one civilian witness from CA, and a handful of sworn statements that probably can be stipulated to by counsel. That's it.

Put that together with what JSS said --that she saw no problem with calling some of his witnesses out of order . Some of the big number of 3.

Thats it. I also think Nurmi is getting on the bad side of the court of appeals with his bs.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I also saw JSS letting us know it was Jodi without having to say so.

 

[janx]

AZlawyer! :seeya: Surfacing from grading for nine hours or so... Big Question: Have you ever taught? You are patient, professional, and aware of your audience--which on this board varies widely.

Smaller question: Is Nurmi making an objection to the Ct App? I'm trying to catch up, and this part is unclear.