Discussion in 'Travis Alexander Trial - The State vs. Jodi Arias' started by LambChop, Oct 22, 2014.
Retrial date for Day 5 - October 28, 2014 :websleuther:
Thread #6 (day 2)
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Morning all. <modsnip>
Thanks to all that post the tweets for us! I don't know what Id do without you guys!
Another day of stalls and sidebars. Yay...
I think yesterday was pretty productive as to what JM got to show. I hope today he gets to show more.
Gawd, the "shower scene" comparison has always gnawed at me and makes so much sense (JMO). they seemed to have a theme of play-acting, whether in actuality they followed through I have no clue. But if she got him to try to recreate pics from the movie scene, that would explain why she is dressed, and how she could have the knife in plain view along with the camera --- and was able to ambush him in the shower. He just doesn't look scared enough to know what was truly coming. A few stabs and he would be on the floor, perhaps crawled out to the sink, down the hall... and we know how that ended. Why the gunshot is my question (she thought he wasn't dead?)
This just makes more sense than anything else, to me. Where am I missing something that proves it can be a wrong theory?
Quoted from previous thread by Spellbound.
**warning - following will be graphic**
My theory has always been that she surprised him in the shower with stabs to the back, then to the front as he turned to her (position varies depending on how you believe she surprised him), he stumbles out of the shower to the mirror (leaving blood splatter), sees what she's done as she continued to stab him in the back. At this point he is weak and drops to his knees and tries to escape the bathroom, she follows, kinda bending over him continuing to stab him. He reaches the carpet and panic starts to set in for Jodi, this is where she decides to slash his throat and drag him back into the bathroom (pictures snapped at this time showing her dragging him back), she puts him in the shower and he's still making noises, so she decides to finish him off with the gunshot.
Sorry for all the detail, but that's how I have always seen it happen.
Reminder: This is the retrial thread and not the Sidebar. Please stay on topic.
I think that's about right, but considering the defensive wounds and her ankle scratches and hand wounds. You know the ones from the "bar glasses" um I mean "cat", quote Det Flores, I don't want to hear about your cat, Jodi. (Sorry, I had to quote that.) I think Travis tried to grab the knife or block it. She said his only weapon was his two fists. I believe that he did try to defend himself. He knew MMA, so you can sweep someone's leg or arm without abusing them. Human nature. If I'm bigger than you, hell I'm 5"7,117 lbs with an ostomy bag, you come at me with a knife and I will try to defend myself. Especially if you are equal or smaller size than me. It doesn't make me abusive or bad. It's human nature. Anyone would fight like hell.
I believe he fought like hell, till she pounced on him and slashed his throat. The gun shot was probably just anger from the fight or because he gurgled.
BUT he was also stabbed in the front.
I think if the only stabs he sustained were those shallow ones to the back he would have been able to easily get away. Those alone would not have weakened him enough to need to crawl away as opposed the fighting her off. He was weakened from blood loss, thus the need to crawl. Jodi weakened him first, either with a shot to the head or a stab to the chest.
I think the stab to his chest was first, before the gun shot. She went in for the kill right away. If you look at the picture just before the ceiling shot, Travis is seated and his arms are positioned on his knees. So she had to go underneath his arms to get the knife in. This explains the upward angle. Also, based on the position of the camera in straight pic and the pic after where you can't see his face, Jodi was kneeling on the ground when she stabbed him. There's a reason in her story why she is kneeling when the camera drops: because that's what she was doing when she was taking pics and then started stabbing him. The pics don't support the theory of gun shot first, IMO, nor his having been stabbed in the back first.
ETA: tiger also brought up the defensive wounds. Another reason why he had to have been facing her at some point while he was being stabbed. The defensive wounds on his feet and scalp show he was defending himself from a seated position while she was stabbing him.
I agree whole heartedly he fight her, yes, he was stabbed in the front and hands, that would all go into play as well, I was just summarizing my theory.
:seeya: Another day, another dollar.
Which juror will be selected for questioning today? I wonder if Nurmi is pulling their numbers out of a hat? Or Arias reports them for looking at her the way 'haters' tend to do. Or maybe it's Juan who has concerns. I think we should know the issues, at least. Too much secrecy in this trial!!!
I should have read it better lol, I see you said he was stabbed in the back then turned around.
I think overall that's pretty accurate. I don't think she stabbed him in the back first but it's certainly possible. The only thing that makes me hesitate there was the sitting pictures taken just before the murder began.
I also wonder: is it possible the gun was neither first nor last?
I think she either shot him in the middle of the killing, probably while he was crawling away or on the ground in the bathroom OR at the very end while he was face down with his left cheek to the ground in the bathroom after she dragged him back. I think she slashed his throat while he was on his hands and knees, on his last legs.
I don't think the gunshot was first though.
ETA: also come to think of it, I don't know if he was seated in the position he was in when the last pics were taken because while the chest stab upward, it's also straight on.
He may have been starting to get up from the seated position when she first stabbed him.
Good Morning Everyone!
I don't think I will ever be fully satisfied with what I really believe happened where photos were taken of Travis in the shower.
Imo, he didn't seem to be trying to make sexy photos and really who would this Mormon man show them to? That never made any logical sense to me.
Travis looked resigned and sad in the photos like he was being forced to do something he wasn't comfortable with doing. Even the liar said Travis was a very private person when he was in his own bathroom.
So I do wonder if she had the gun aimed at him at that time telling him if he let her take these photos she wouldn't shoot him but leave and telling him she just wanted them for old time sake.
The dropping of the camera and Travis was mad is such an unbelievable lie. She dropped it when she was stabbing him imo.
I think she first had him do the standing up shots to get him off guard and then she asked him or told him to sit down for one last shot. It is in that shot that Travis is realizing he is facing the monster of his nightmares. It is when he is sitting down that she thrust the knife into his chest 5.5 inches. As he was sitting he would be in the most vulnerable position of all and she knew it. I think in a split second she dropped the gun back in her sweat jacket pocket and pulled out the knife. Travis would be caught totally off guard that he was going to be stabbed.
The photos of Travis in the shower are so haunting. I don't see anything sexual about them. I see a very frightened sad man who knew his demon was imposing her will upon him once again. I will always believe in one of the shots Travis is praying.
I know the jury will not become desensitized to seeing what she did to Travis because I don't even have to look at them anymore and they are very emblazoned into my memory. There is just something about the overwhelming brutality of how he was murdered that has stuck with me and I have seen a lot of autopsy photos through the years and most have faded from memory but Travis' never will.
Bringing over YESorNO's List of Tweeters:
Originally Posted by YESorNO (As far as I know) Tweeting Live #jodiarias
Monica Lindstrom ‏@monicalindstrom
Troy Hayden ‏@troyhaydenfox10
Wild About Trial ‏@WildAboutTrial
Jeffrey Evan Gold ‏@jeffgoldesq
Katie Conner ‏@KatieJConner
KTAR News on 92.3 ‏@KTAR923
Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ
AZ Family ‏@azfamily
Dave Erickson ‏@ericksonvision
Court: Monday - Thursday
Wednesday - October 29th
Monday - November 10th
Tuesday- November 11th
Thursday and Friday - November 26th and 27th (Thanksgiving)
NO Court on Friday.
I've always had trouble believing she forced him into a photoshoot but I do agree he doesn't look very happy or sexual in the photos and agree he looks sad and uncomfortable. I think he was having so much trouble moving on from Jodi. Every time he thought he was free she showed up with lube and excuses. I think the photo shoot was sort of to placate her.
And I think the reason so many people find that straight on portrait of Travis so fascinating is because it doesn't appear to just be a typical pictures. There's something in his eyes but what is it? Fear, sadness, shock, anger? The tragic thing is we'll never really know.
I also agree that I have also seen many autopsy photos, I've seen horrific things, morbid curiosity for sure. And like you the autopsy photos of Travis have stayed with me the longest and actually horrified me when I first saw them that I was shaking. I think it's because the final photos of him taken were taken just before his nightmarish murder. It's the very sad dichotomy of being alive and handsome and well, the world at his feet one moment, and the next lying on the floor bleeding to death. And the next clear photo of his face is of him dead, decaying and a permanent sadness etched in his once attractive face. It's very heartbreaking to think how quickly and suddenly everything was ripped from him. The documentation is a sad reminder.
“you can just see expressions on people`s faces and emotional moments.
I love capturing that sort of thing” – Arias
Plus the shower door was open, per testimony, so there's no way Jodi "surprised" Travis. She was there in the bathroom taking pictures from 5:22:34 til 5:30:30 when she attacked. IMO she planned a knife attack for when his guard was down (after sex) and vulnerable (naked and trapped on three sides).
Yes, I think he was rising from the seated shower position (5:30:30) when she plunged the knife into his heart, and I also think he did try to knock her over (her infamous 'football lunge') after that stab, I think that's when the ceiling pic (5:31:14) took place. Also think he was on his hands and knees and said he couldn't feel his legs but instead of her ninja story of kneeling by him asking what she could do to help she was behind him stabbing him in the back. I don't think the pic with her pant leg (5:32:16) is her dragging him down the hallway, it's too early for that yet, I think she's still attacking him in that pic.
That is another thing I have never understood. Not one photo of Travis was taken that day that showed he was in a state of sexual arrousal. Even in the two photos of him on the bed are very very odd. Even my own husband commented 'what man would want a photo of themselves without an erection if it was suppose to be a sex photo?'
It actually looks like to me that Travis was surprised when the photo was taken. In one he looks like he could be sleeping and in the other he does the peace sign. And why were they taken from afar and at an angle?
I think she snuck in while Travis was on his bed sleeping (a lot of men do sleep in the buff) and placed the KY jelly there and then went back away from him and snapped the first photo and the second photo he didn't look happy at all. And she took the KY with her so that means she brought it.
I truly think she put it on the bed so he would know she was there. He would know no one else knew about the KY but him and Jodi.
So really there is no evidence that they even had sex that day. IMO.
There is just so much of this that doesn't make sense. Not one photo of them together in any sex act and according to JA she said they made those kind of photos yet none were ever found.
:seeya: Good Morning, Y'all !
The shower pics....I think he was hating himself for breaking his vows again by giving in to her and having sex. That he was saying to himself... at least this is really the last time. That he was obliging her wishes for the shower pics but wanting desperately for her to leave him alone, to leave!
I also think she dropped the camera on purpose to distract him while she pulled out the knife...
You forget-- somehow!!!!!- those gruesome pics of her whatnots taken that day....
I think JM is on record as believing they had sex that day. Sex as in sex, nothing more, and for reasons by both that had zero to do with feeling intimate or warm & fuzzy.