Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered #2

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SouthAussie said:
I just hope the adults keep the local children from the beaches for a while .. it will not be pretty after 3+ days in the water.
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Couldn't agree more. I remember one of the Aircraft Engineers working for Emirates based in Dubai did a short stint at the Melbourne Airport Office when Emirates started up their 777 operation. After several months away from his family he decided to meet up with his family at Comoros Island. I will never forget his recount of the accident. His wife and 3 children were relaxing on the beach when he looked up to see an Ethiopian jet hitting the ocean. This aircraft had been hijacked by 3 Ethiopians and demanded the Capt fly to Australia. This aircraft landed close to the beach, he said his immediate reaction was to wade in over a rocky foreshore to assist survivors. Sorry to be graphic…the water was just bloody and he had gashes over his feet and legs from the rocks. Passengers did survive however he was unable to retrieve anyone. Due to cuts he endured and the high rate of AIDS/HIV in Ethopia he was required to have HIV screening for several months thereafter. Fortunately he was in the clear.
 
Intermezzo said:
could the storm the plane was trying to avoid be considered a super-cell thunderstorm with the possibility of very strong updrafts?
Would an updraft be strong enough to raise the altitude of a plane?
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One of our staff who is ex ATC said that it was a Category 5. I can't explain it like a professional - however I will give it ago. The next time you have bad weather look up and try and see a cloud that looks like an anvil. This type of cloud pattern would be one of the worst you could encounter. The inside of the cell is like an elevator you could have an updraft going at a few 100 kmph and down draft doing the same. So if an A/C flys into something like that they loose all aero dynamics, airflow over the wing can no longer sustain lift.
 
I'll second that, I can talk about aviation until the cows come home and that's where it stops. I feel like I have learnt sooo much about the law. Court rooms, defence, prosecution sociopaths and the list goes on. I guess we are all here together for justice, regardless of what genre it falls into.
 
rafts:

According to this article there are four doors on this aircraft all of which have the slide/raft and there are rafts contained topside of the wings.

http://www.dailyo.in/opinion/airasi...the-safest-method-of-travel/story/1/1273.html

I have also read that not all carriers have life rafts at all -- will post as I find more

US carriers:
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/09/21/cbs-2-investigation-taking-flight-without-life-rafts/

'"But that is exactly what’s happening. CBS 2’s investigation learned the Federal Aviation Administration routinely waives the requirement of life rafts on airplanes flying over the ocean.

“Most domestic flights now are operated by airplanes that do not have life rafts or life vests, only seat cushions for floatation,” Sullenberger said.

Eighteen different commercial airlines got waivers from the FAA to fly with no life rafts on board. They do use seat cushions and individual life vests.''


Quantas & Virgin
http://www.theguardian.com/business...e-life-rafts-is-in-line-with-global-standards

:gasp:
 
SouthAussie said:
I notice that the report explains that black is the coldest zone at around -70/80C ... and it goes on to say ....

"Clouds at -70C will probably be around 50,000ft in this region. In general the severity of a storm is directly proportional to the altitude that the clouds reach,” Proud explained.

“The weather information available to the crew depends very much on the airline. It may range from a ‘significant weather’ chart (which can often be vague or inaccurate) and some data on conditions at the departure and arrival airports up to something much more complex. In most cases the crew will have access to some satellite data showing cloud formations, but this would only be pre-departure and could be several hours old. In-flight they will have their weather radar and also information transmitted over radio from other aircraft and air traffic control in the region, which would give turbulence reports and so on.”


The charts attached to ElleElle's post say that they are prognostic charts, so perhaps do not fully reflect the actual conditions of the morning, as well. Sounds as though it is possible that these pilots may not have had a really clear idea of what they were flying into until they got very close.
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Exactly the weather they are experiencing could have a time lag attached to it. Pilot's are required to go into Bureau of Meteorology to get a clear forecast of weather formation prior to departure. Many times the Capt will advise weather statistics en route which can change significantly, even within 30 minutes. This is my guess only - these guys were pushing the envelope. They got themselves into a position they could never get out off. So significant that the skipper could not call a PAN or MAYDAY - whatever they were in they knew they had to get out off immediately. Aviators are trained to think 10 steps ahead, no 10 steps behind.
 
CARIIS said:
I just love the NTSB! As a kid, to this day , I have no idea how I knew to do this. This was 40 years ago, when the govt worked for the people. I would write the NTSB, request a specfic accidnet report. Back then they were called blue cover reports - meaning that was the FINAL.
They are amazing reads. All accidents are a "mystery". The get every second down. They do not , in the first half of the report, do anything other than give the information. Then the second half of each report is analyasis. It is amazing reading - it is the perfect mystery , figured out explained. But the writing style is very neutral, which leaves the reader to make own conclusions.
Then they do reccomdnations. THey have no legal authority, but they are IMO collecitily, the most dedicated public servants around. Their mandate and want - safer air travel. The agency holds these values dearly. All these decades later, in this horrible govt climate, they remain dedcated.
The amazing decrease in aviation numbers the last two decades is directly corrleated with them. They have saved lives, they are free from political crap, they reccomend what they need to, and then it goes to the the FAA , who is so govt eee messes it up and does not follow any of their reccomdations for about a decade, a couple of houndred deaths, and then the FAA finally implements what these folk told them they should have done a decade earlier.

If these is gonna be a replay (there will be some distance cause the French equivalent of our NTSB handled 447 - talk about currupt oye that group is skilled but Airbus is out of France - hello problem!) And the 447 deal was a racket - thats why the pivot tubes were not replaced, and then when they were only on the 340 330 series - just a mess~

Sosie at CNN held similair role at faa - investigating dozens of aircraft accidents the last couple of decades and has been true and blue .

This guy -Greg Feith- superstar at NTSB in his day. CBS or NBC grabbed him, I follow him on this story . He is real good!

Emerates, my sense is you lov aviation like I do . I am going to go for AIr FLorida flight 90 crash - it was amazing.

Here is link to NTSB final:

Goggle this

Aircraft Accident Report: Air Florida, Inc., Boeing 737-222, N62AF, Collision with 14th Street Bridge, Near Washington National Airport, Washington, D.C., January 13, 1982 National Transportation Safety Board report (PDF, 140 pages)

Enjoy- great mysteries unraveled!
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Thanks Cariis …. much appreciated and look forward to a good read.
 
The search for AirAsia Flight 8501’s black box could take a week, an Indonesian air safety official told Reuters, adding that no signals from the black box had yet been detected.

“The main thing is to find the main area of the wreckage and then the black box,” Toos Sanitiyoso, an official of the Indonesian National Committee for Transportation Safety, reportedly said. So far on Thursday, bad weather and rough seas have hindered the search efforts.

http://www.ibtimes.com/airasia-flig...cted-take-week-weather-hampers-search-1771678
 
SouthAussie said:
The search for AirAsia Flight 8501’s black box could take a week, an Indonesian air safety official told Reuters, adding that no signals from the black box had yet been detected.

“The main thing is to find the main area of the wreckage and then the black box,” Toos Sanitiyoso, an official of the Indonesian National Committee for Transportation Safety, reportedly said. So far on Thursday, bad weather and rough seas have hindered the search efforts.

http://www.ibtimes.com/airasia-flig...cted-take-week-weather-hampers-search-1771678
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Independent search and salvage by locals ...... might provide some encouragement. MOO

Poor fishermen could benefit by laying claim to the aircraft.
 
newone said:
Independent search and salvage by locals ...... might provide some encouragement. MOO

Poor fishermen could benefit by laying claim to the aircraft.
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I think a lot of experience is willing to help as well, but so far Indonesia seems to be keeping the help within its boundaries. The Australian Orions came back yesterday .. they were no longer needed. The US Navy is hovering but has not been participating. I agree with your earlier comment that a submersible vehicle should be able to work in these waters fairly comfortably. But I don't see anything about that kind of assistance being requested.

Local fishermen will probably be the ones to discover deceased people and big chunks of plane, and alert local authorities.

I guess I am not understanding why, with all of the great technologies available around the world, they are having such trouble. The ocean search for MH370 was pretty relentless, from sun up to sun down, and only ceased a few times for short periods due to horrendous conditions.

But then, I tend to be a bit impatient ....
 
SouthAussie said:
I think a lot of experience is willing to help as well, but so far Indonesia seems to be keeping the help within its boundaries. The Australian Orions came back yesterday .. they were no longer needed. The US Navy is hovering but has not been participating. I agree with your earlier comment that a submersible vehicle should be able to work in these waters fairly comfortably. But I don't see anything about that kind of assistance being requested.

Local fishermen will probably be the ones to discover deceased people and big chunks of plane, and alert local authorities.

I guess I am not understanding why, with all of the great technologies available around the world, they are having such trouble. The ocean search for MH370 was pretty relentless, from sun up to sun down, and only ceased a few times for short periods due to horrendous conditions.

But then, I tend to be a bit impatient ....
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I truly believe that some commercial fisherman would have had accomplished more in the past 48 hours. MOO
 
newone said:
I truly believe that some commercial fisherman would have had accomplished more in the past 48 hours. MOO
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:yes:

Well, a fisherman was the first one to find parts of the plane, wasn't he? :sigh:
 
Indonesia's Search and Rescue vessel KN SAR Purworejo tasked to deploy navy divers to the crash site of the AirAsia plane in Java Sea suspended operation due to bad weather, the captain of the ship said Thursday.

"With heavy rains and wind like this strong, the wave in the crash site may rise up to 4 meters, exacerbate the visibility of the crews. It is not possible for us to go in such a bad weather condition". The vessel was docked in Kumai seaport, Pangkalan Bun.

He added that the vessel can only go through up to 3 meters, and higher than that would risk the safety of the crew.

Location of the area to search bodies and debris from the AirAsia Airbus A320-200 plane was four hours away from Kumai seaport, or 100 nautical mile, Adil added.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-01/01/c_133891620.htm


So, basically they are not even waiting at the suspected crash site for the weather to be clear enough to be able to dive. They are waiting 4 hours away at a port because their boat cannot handle the waves.

Then the weather clears - like this morning - they can head out, then in the afternoon the weather changes, they probably haven't even reached the site or are just getting there, and they turn around and go back to port.
 
SouthAussie said:
Indonesia's Search and Rescue vessel KN SAR Purworejo tasked to deploy navy divers to the crash site of the AirAsia plane in Java Sea suspended operation due to bad weather, the captain of the ship said Thursday.

"With heavy rains and wind like this strong, the wave in the crash site may rise up to 4 meters, exacerbate the visibility of the crews. It is not possible for us to go in such a bad weather condition". The vessel was docked in Kumai seaport, Pangkalan Bun.

He added that the vessel can only go through up to 3 meters, and higher than that would risk the safety of the crew.

Location of the area to search bodies and debris from the AirAsia Airbus A320-200 plane was four hours away from Kumai seaport, or 100 nautical mile, Adil added.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-01/01/c_133891620.htm


So, basically they are not even waiting at the suspected crash site for the weather to be clear enough to be able to dive. They are waiting 4 hours away at a port because their boat cannot handle the waves.

Then the weather clears - like this morning - they can head out, then in the afternoon the weather changes, they probably haven't even reached the site or are just getting there, and they turn around and go back to port.
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https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...Z7YfEJBschqNCcDbPlAFklJMK8J97YwY1Y4yAjOE3_-Cw

if this is the vessel ((used google images)) it makes sense they would not be able to handle swells --- fair weather vessel only ---
 
newone said:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...Z7YfEJBschqNCcDbPlAFklJMK8J97YwY1Y4yAjOE3_-Cw

if this is the vessel ((used google images)) it makes sense they would not be able to handle swells --- fair weather vessel only ---
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BBM: Yes, exactly. So why are they not using or enlisting better vessels that can stay out there, and take advantage of the periods of good weather?


Looks like the vessel might have white searails around it.

jan01-divers_638.jpg


https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/25875755/airasia-flight-qz8501-search-divers-prepare-to-go-down/
 
:scared:

oh boy

Air Canada -

"Jazz airlines, Air Canada's regional affiliate, recently removed life vests from all of its planes – including those that fly over water – to reduce fuel consumption and save money."

"Safety cards in seat pockets will now direct passengers to use the seat cushions, which float.''

''Jazz planes criss-cross Canada and the U.S., flying over the Great Lakes and up the Eastern seaboard from Halifax to Boston and New York."

as long as they are fifty miles to a shore it's good OMG!

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2008/08/23/air_canadas_jazz_tosses_life_jackets.html

no life vests!!!!!!
 
newone said:
:scared:

oh boy

Air Canada -

"Jazz airlines, Air Canada's regional affiliate, recently removed life vests from all of its planes – including those that fly over water – to reduce fuel consumption and save money."

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2008/08/23/air_canadas_jazz_tosses_life_jackets.html

no life vests!!!!!!
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:thud:


Ditching the vests "says to me that the financial circumstances of the airline industry are in such disarray that a 1 per cent cost is being considered worthwhile," says D'Cruz. "I think accumulatively, it's making air travel a relatively unpleasant experience." :yes:
 
SouthAussie said:
:thud:


Ditching the vests "says to me that the financial circumstances of the airline industry are in such disarray that a 1 per cent cost is being considered worthwhile," says D'Cruz. "I think accumulatively, it's making air travel a relatively unpleasant experience." :yes:
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that smoking section on the wing is looking pretty appealing -- just pack a parachute --
 
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